Forums General Discussion Chainplate source

Tagged: 

This topic contains 16 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  Warren Stringer 3 months, 3 weeks ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #224314

    Rich Harris
    Participant

    Title says it all. I went to re-bed a leaking chain-plate and apparently the PO hasn’t checked them in years. Three of the four bolt heads twisted off with less than ten lbs of torque on the port upper plate. I pulled the plate and cleaned out the thru deck hole and inspected the chain-plate. It’s probably reusable but why take a chance since it’s out anyway.
    So does anyone have a reliable source for chain-plates? I found the drawings on the forum and will try to find a local shop if no response from the group here.
    While I was in there, I pulled out all the factory original material inside the storage areas as well as the dividers. I’m planning on just painting the interior surfaces and replacing the dividers, wire runs and hardware.
    Any insight is welcome.
    Rich Harris
    S/V Forget Knot

  • #224316

    robshookphoto
    Participant

    I had my port and starboard ones done (6; Effie is a factory cutter) with a local (Old Saybrook CT) rigger (Sound Rigging) for about $700.

    But I’ve heard great things about Colligo marine for sending them out. Apparently they do titanium really reasonably.

    Had I had more time I would have looked into that. Or another way to save money is find out what fabricators order stainless stock and get them to cut the pieces raw. Take it to a machine shop for rounding and holes, then ask them for their electro-polish source or find one on your own.

    Pearson 424 cutter - "Effie"

    1 user thanked author for this post.
  • #224319

    typhoontye
    Participant

    Ours were done by the previous owner. Looking through receipts, it appears he used ‘Howdy Bailey’, out of Norfolk, VA, in 2013. The office number there is listed as 757.480.0058. I see that the PO paid $1,573 for main and mizzen ‘escution plates’. As I recall, he did all the chain plates except the forestay chain plate. His reasoning being that it is easily inspectable.

    David
    Blue Moon

    1 user thanked author for this post.
  • #224323

    Ken Page
    Participant

    You can also do as I did, order a full length piece of good quality stock and cut to length and radius on the tops yourself. I did it with a hack saw (few blades) and a grinder and finished up with a mill file. Then to a machine shop to just drill the holes, Save you a lot of money

    Ken

    Taking what comes as I get it, using it all as much as I can and trying hard to leave all the shit behind.

  • #224326

    Rich Harris
    Participant

    You can also do as I did, order a full length piece of good quality stock and cut to length and radius on the tops yourself. I did it with a hack saw (few blades) and a grinder and finished up with a mill file. Then to a machine shop to just drill the holes, Save you a lot of money

    Ken

    That’s the route I’m taking. I just ordered 2-6′ pieces of 3/8 x 1 1/2 Stainless barstock from metal depot. With 3 day shipping it was just under $170 for the material. I did some machine work before I was in the Navy and am a woodworker so I’m no stranger to tools. I’m going to talk to a Amish machinist I’ve used in the past to do the drilling and shaping then try to find somewhere nearby to do the electropolishing. That may be difficult down here. I think the closest to me is either Richmond Va or Baltimore.
    I’ll keep everyone posted on progress.
    While I’m at it, I tore out all that old foam backed material that over the decades has been neglected and molded as well as all the woodwork in the area above the main saloon berths. The plywood has delaminated and many of the bronze screws have perished. I think for now, we’ll paint the fiberglass and rebuild the woodwork to like or hopefully better than new standards.

    Attachments:
    1. IMG_20180720_204523929.jpg

    2. IMG_20180721_125056088.jpg

    3. IMG_20180721_112507679.jpg

    4. IMG_20180721_112532409.jpg

  • #224332

    Ken Page
    Participant

    Rich, after looking at those pics, your boat definitely had some serious leakage at the chain plates. Fortunately for me “Painkiller’s” under deck chain plate area was only lightly stained, from minor leaking. All bulkhead covering and woodwork untainted. The same with when I redid all my stanchion bases, only one base had sign of leaking below, but still only stains and slight wood deterioration at top of bulkhead. But…at every stanchion base the deckcore was rotten at different levels. Good luck with the rest of your restoration.

    Ken

    Taking what comes as I get it, using it all as much as I can and trying hard to leave all the shit behind.

  • #224333

    RichCarter
    Participant

    Chainplate leaks are a chronic problem with the 424 and many other boats. If you don’t keep the water out, the chainplates will suffer and anything you put in the lockers below will get wet. I found it almost impossible to keep this sealed until I tried lap-seal, a flexible caulk sold for camper roofs. The rigging will flex the chainplates when under way, separating them from almost any sealant you use. The stuff they use for camper roofs however is made to flex and lasts for years. I switched over about 20 years ago and renew the sealant about every five years. I remove the chainplate covers and clean them and the area around the deck where they sit. I lay in a bead of sealant, then install the covers and lay in another layer on top of them.
    I use Dicor-551LSW1-White-Non-Sag-Sealant, available from Amazon and most camper supply stores.

  • #224334

    Keth Comollo
    Participant

    I have always had good luck using butyl tape under the chainplate covers. Flexible and sticky for years.

    https://shop.marinehowto.com/products/bed-it-tape

  • #224335

    Rich Harris
    Participant

    Rich,
    I’m pretty familiar with the RV sealant you refer to. We sold our RV to buy another money sink. I’m far happier with a boat though. I hadn’t considered that sealant. It worked quite well on my 2004 Winnebago for 13 years.
    I was originally considering using butyl tape and haven’t ruled it out. I’ll do some more research before final decision.
    The thru-deck penetrations were really big. Probably 1″ x 2″ at least around the plate with a pile of 4200 gunked in around it. There is some wet core that I’ll need to get out then will fill with solid epoxy. I saw an earlier post where someone (tor, I think) wrapped their chainplates in wax paper, bolted them in then filled with epoxy to fill the excessive voids.
    I already have the butyl tape Keith referred to and if I go that route, will bevel the top surface at the hole with a router to allow the butyl a place to live. I’m documenting with pictures so I’ll surely post as I go along. This is the kind of stuff you need when you’ve never done this before and I want to pass on my experiences to the community.

  • #224336

    Ken Page
    Participant

    Here’s some more on butyl rubber (my go to choice for stanchions and chainplates). 35ish yrs ago when I started in the marine industry as the only machinist on a custom built carvel planked 65′ schooner I had the opportunity to help make most wood casting molds for “all” custom bronze fittings for the entire vessel. From stuffing box and pintals etc, to hanging knees, all deck fittings, chainplates (stock), hause pipes, bulwark knees, mast hoops, gaff jaws and every other fitting for all the spars. I machined and fit all those rough castings to the vessel and spars (the boss occasionally chipped in too). I then got to fit and install them on the boat. Every deck fitting from the knees to the massive gammon iron, they had me bed with butyl rubber. Below waterline fittings we used this “new stuff” 5200. Dolfinite was the bedding of choice for most of the spars. I am familiar with butyl tape, it’s what I use, but back then we had it in 10oz tubes. Man was that stuff a bitch to work with. I was told it will last for years and stay flexible but you should always rebed your deck fitting every 5 years and this stuff keeps that job easy even if you….go a little long in your maintenance. It’s true I didn’t know a wee bit of anything about boats backs then, but after 5 boats of my own and countless hours working in boatyards year after year for pretty damn fancy yachts, butyl is still my go to caulking for the deck. Just my humble opinion guys. Good Luck.
    Ken

    Taking what comes as I get it, using it all as much as I can and trying hard to leave all the shit behind.

  • #224338

    Dunphyje
    Participant

    Rich,
    Sorry to butt into your chain plate discussion but, I just saw your pictures.
    Since you have a large area exposed it might be a good idea to put insulating in while you have easy access.
    I insulated my last sailboat using the foil bubble wrap and it made a huge difference.
    It was inexpensive and easy to work with and cut to fit…
    I used 3M spray adhesive, it also was easy to work with (works like contact cement).
    In my case I used gray outdoor carpet also glued over the liner (also with 3M spray on adhesive) and it also came out great with a clean neat appearance.
    An additional benefit was the reduction in noise from both inside and outside of the boat..
    Sold the boat 5 years later and never a separation and worked well in Florida..
    Just a thought.
    John

    1 user thanked author for this post.
  • #224339

    RichCarter
    Participant

    Another place where a flexible caulk is needed is around the mast collar. I used poly-sulfide the last time I caulked this about 5 years ago and now have a leak. I’ll be rebedding it in the fall when the mast comes out. I’ll probably use lap sealant since it’s what I have, but I might try butyl tape here since I don’t need to get the caulk down a hole like with the chainplates. If you let water get in there it can get into your deck and rot the core.

  • #224342

    Rich Harris
    Participant

    UPDATE:
    Last week I ordered 2-6′ lengths of 3/8 x 1-1/2 316 stainless. It arrived on Thursday and I took them to a local Amish machine shop. He did the cutting and drilling for $210. A value in my opinion. I was once a machinist in my early 20’s and without the proper tools, it’s a painful job.
    I Picked up the parts today and they look great. The parts still need polishing and after much deliberation, I decided to hand polish the top three or four inches. Finding a place to electropolish locally was impossible and I’m missing out on good sailing weather on the bay so I dove right in. Anything below that top few inches will be below deck level and I shouldn’t have to worry about corrosion if they are kept dry (I know).
    The finish isn’t nearly as high a luster as the originals were, but I think it will do. (see the photos).
    The first one was exploratory in nature, trying to figure out the most efficient way to polish the ends without removing too much metal. It took about two hours to get to a decent finish. The second one took about 30 minutes.
    I started with a hand file, cleaning up the edges from where the mill cut the bar stock to width and working the rounded corners at the top end. Next step was over to the oscillating belt sander where I used 100 then 150 grit belts working until I had an even scratch on the bar. Next was to my random orbital sander doing the same with 220, 320 and 600 grit papers. Finally I took it to the buffing wheels mounted on my bench grinder using compound and polishing sticks.
    Probably more info than you all needed but someone might want it.

    For the cabinets,once the chainplates are done, I’ll paint the fiberglass, insulate with reflectix and build new cabinetr. I intend to make the backs and overheads of the cabinets using slat construction with exposed oval head screws. This will allow easy access behind and above the cabinets as needed.

    Attachments:
    1. Original next to two finished plates.

    2. IMG_20180801_201519487.jpg

    3. IMG_20180801_201508320.jpg

    4. IMG_20180801_201531116.jpg

    5. L-R Original, Polished, Sanded, Raw

  • #224350

    Rich Harris
    Participant

    Progress has been slow but sure. The heat here has been a factor and I also have a J.O.B. as well as other obligations. Cap shrouds are complete and came out well. Aft lowers are almost ready to bed. At each deck penetration I took out all the old sealant as well as deck coring with a bent nail. I also drilled the screwholes out for the covers and filled them with west epoxy mixed with 404 filler after bolting in the new chainplate wrapped in wax paper. If I do have leaks, there will be no chance of getting water into the core. Once the epoxy is hardened off, I removed the chainplate and cleaned u the hole and deck around the hole finishing with a 45 degree chamfer on the edges of the hull penetration. This allows for a pretty loose fit thanks to the waxpaper and the chamfer allows the butyl tape to seal the joint thoroughly. So far everything is working great. We’ve had some pretty good rainstorms since completing the first few and everything is dry so far. Time will tell how it lasts.

  • #224351

    Warren Stringer
    Participant

    Has anybody ever thought about converting the main forward and aft lowers to external chainplates to get more room to pass by on deck?

    Warren
    s/v Adagio #149

  • #224364

    Rich Harris
    Participant

    Warren,
    I had considered moving mine outboard and still wonder if I should have. The issue I see is sheeting angle for the genoa. By moving the shrouds further out, the sheeting angle of the jib is that much further. Is it a lot for a Pearson especially one like mine that isn’t going to see a race? I’m not sure but the boat isn’t exactly the best at pointing upwind, so I decided not to chance it. I’m also not a marine architect, more a backyard engineer, knowledgeable enough to be dangerous but wise enough to know that.
    it would be interesting to know if anyone has made that change. It sure would be more convenient.

  • #224365

    Warren Stringer
    Participant

    Hi Rich,

    On Adagio, with a 135 jenny, the sheeting angle is limited by the spreaders rather than by the configuration of the lowers at deck level. So I think I could get away with it. It might be more of an issue with a smaller jib. There would not be a problem with mast support, shroud tension, or constraining the main boom by moving the lowers outboard.

    I also wonder if by using a slightly smaller jenny, or putting maybe 3 or 4 turns on the roller furler, I would be able to sheet the jib inside the upper shroud but outboard of the lowers. I used to do this with the Yankee on my Cape Dory 36 cutter and gained about 10 degrees pointing ability with no sacrifice in speed (in calm water).

    Food for thought. Have to look a little more at the geometry this weekend.

    Warren
    s/v Adagio, #149, 1981

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.