Ah Rich,
I have a better way to winterize. And it doesn't involve that awful tasting anti-freeze that only gets rinsed out at the end of the season.
I install a shore water inlet. At a dock, I use a hose and hey! presto fresh water without using the tank and pump.
But when winterization comes along, baby, that's where it shines! I connect a fitting made up to match an air compressor with the hose fitting. One by one, from the farthest to the nearest I open up the faucet, cold first, hot last, and run it until no more water blows out.
The hot water heater is drained, the cold water is dry (as is the hot water), and if there are a few drops of water in the system, so what? As long as there's expansion space it's all good.
I also drain the tanks to the bilge using a siphon on a fitting before the pressure pump.
This all takes about an hour. The nice thing is that there's no polyproplyene glycol in the system (ever had a colonoscopy? The stuff they make you drink a gallon of? That pink stuff without the pink. You still want it in your water system?)
Bob
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 3:54 PM, < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Bob
I would have mixed feelings about using PVC or copper for pressure water lines in the boat. I've experienced problems with the end fittings used with plastic tubing. Most of these problems have been addressed by replacing the cheap plastic fittings with copper compression fittings and nylon compression rings. I don't believe the nylon rings are available anymore, but copper compression rings are. Too bad, since the nylon compression rings allowed you to disassemble the fitting and reuse the parts. I've not had very good results reusing fittings with copper compression rings.I've still had issues with the hot water line from the water heater. Water in the water tank gets hotter than what you would normally find in a domestic water system. I've had issues with the water line breaking. I lost count of how many times I dumped a water tank into the bilge last year. I eventually replaced the hose from the water heater to the manifold with nylon reinforced tubing.
Friends of mine built a cabin in the woods in central New Hampshire a few years ago. When the plumbed the camp, they pitched the water lines and installed drains at the low points so as to make winterizing easy for them. I suppose you could do this with the pressure water system on your boat, but snaking water pipe through cabinets and bilge doesn't lend itself to pitching the pipes as you might wish. We have a camp in NY, but our pipes weren't put in this way. Its a pain to blow them out when winterizing. Sometimes we don't get all the water out of one spot or anther and the pipe splits open when the water freezes. I think you would find it difficult to reliably blow the pipes out.
On the other hand, winterizing is pretty easy with the plastic tubing. All I have to do is drain the water heater, open the faucets, remove the water filter and toss a gallon of potable anti-freeze in the water tanks. If it were hard plastic or copper, I'd have to blow out the lines. This would be problematic.
Folks who keep their boats in slips might have a direct connection to a water supply. If I used this kind of connection, I'd want a fresh water system that was pretty reliable. I'd hate to come back to the boat to find that one of the water lines had broken and allowed the bilge to flood with city water. One would think that a shutoff of some kind would prevent this kind of problem, but I know I'd eventually forget to turn the water off. I think the right solution is to use a better quality plastic tubing than Pearson used. Someone must make something like this. West Marine sells something with the Whale brand on it, but it's very expensive. If anyone has a suggested supplier for quality tubing at a reasonable price, please let us know.
—
Rich Carter
—
Rich Carter
Original message
From: “Robert Fine” < ([email][/email])>I wonder, what do you all think of re-doing the potable water with copper
piping like a house? Assuming of course, fixed connections to tanks were
via small sections of hose?Bob
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 9:48 AM, alan P < ([email][/email])> wrote:
A few yrs ago had a Catalina 30 in the yard that had a
small leak in his winter cover. Water had leaked in
and when it froze, busted a scupper hose. In the
spring when it rained, more water had leaked into the
boat.
The travel lift operator needed to move the boat to
launch someone else. When he lifted the boat up, all
the water shifted, causing the boat to tip in the
slings. The Catalina ended bow up, sitting on the
rudder. Not a pretty site.
a
— Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:I did not mean to say unexpected stuff can't happen,
like something clogging up Rich's cockpit drain
pipe. Remind me to
tell you some time about wintering my last boat in
Greece, where a cat got in through a sheltered
cockpit porthole I'd
left open for ventilation and had a litter of
kittens on my bunk. And that was only the beginning
of the mess!Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
Original Message
From: alan P [mailto: ()]
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 7:03 AM
To: Mailing List (Mailing List)
Subject: RE: PVC plumbing and cockpitdrains
I agree with Tor.
I've been wintering boats in Western NY for thelast
28 years. If you do each system properly, you will
have no issues.
I make a check list so I don't forget anything.
Last year I had to add “Remove bag of potatoesfrom
VBerth Locker”. Yuck!!
alan— Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Ha, what a neat trick! I'll do it. Thanks!
I don't have plans for wintering this boat up
north,
but I have done so with
other boats in the past, and I once stored an RVfor
the winter in Alaska.
In my experience if you take the normalprecautions
– cleaning, plugging,
adding anti-freeze, etc – the systems survive
freezing temperatures just
fine, whatever the component materials.
Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
Original Message
From: Rich CarterSent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 3:56 PM
To: Mailing List (Mailing List)
Cc: ()
Subject: RE: PVC plumbing andcockpit
drains
Tor
I've had water freeze in PVC sanitation hose
without failure. This is the
flexible stuff we all use for various plumbing
connections. This can happen
if something gets stuck in the pipe like leavesor a
bottle cap. The last
item is pretty easy to get caught in the cockpit
drain hoses. All you need
is a careless guest onboard who insists on
metrosexual beer and you are
bound to get one in the cockpit drain. Manyyears
ago, I put a stainless
pin across each cockpit drain in order to keepmy
kids legos from getting
stuck down there. The pin is made from a long
stainless machine screw with
the head cut off. You heat the thing up with a
torch while holding it with
pliers. Once hot enough to melt the plactic
fitting, you set it across the
cockpit drain fitting, then douse it with water.It
takes just 10 minutes
or so to protect your cockpit drains from legosand
bottle-caps.
I've also had water freeze in the plastic
pressure
water hoses Pearson
used on the pressure water system for the 424.In
the case of a sea-chest
or manifold system such as is being discussed,
you're more or less forced to
use something like PVC. The issue is to keepwater
from freezing in there.
Rich
From: Silver Heels
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 2:25 PM
To: Mailing List (Mailing List)
Subject: RE: PVC plumbingThanks for sharing that story, Rich. I
wonder,
though, if any pipe
material would stand up to being filled withwater
and then frozen. Seems
like that'd burst whatever confined pipe, hoseor
tube it's in, whether PVC
or something else. Or would it? Is there somekind
of marine plumbing that
could withstand that pressure?
Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
Original Message
From: Rich Carter
[mailto: ()]
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 2:14 PM
To: Mailing List (Mailing List)
Subject: RE: PVC plumbingTor
No seacocks involved. This all happenedabout
30 years ago. The boat
was a Grampian 30. It is similar to a Pearson30,
but not quite as well
built. The cockpit had four drains, one in each
corner. The drains ran out
the back of the trasom to a pair ofthrough-hulls
just above the waterline.
I took the boat out for a sail one day late inthe
fall and observed that
the automatic bilge pump was on. I returned tothe
mooring and investigated.
The PVC pipe that I used to connect the deckdrains
had shattered. When the
boat heeled over on either tack, one of the
through-hulls was under water.
This allowed water to back-down the drain pipe.
Since the PVC was in
pieces, it drained directly into the bilge. Theway
this particlar boat was
designed, water would sometimes back down thedrain
pipe into the cockpit.
This would get your feet wet.I surmised that the PVC pipes had
collected
water which froze in the
pipe. This can happen if you get a cold spell
followed by rain and sleet.
Once the pipe was obstructed, it subsequentlyfilled
=== message truncated ===
________________________________________________________________________________
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Your data on the web your way. No kidding
Forwarded message
From: “Robert Fine” < ([email][/email])>
To: Mailing List (Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:06:22 +0000
Subject: Re: PVC plumbing and cockpit drains
I wonder, what do you all think of re-doing the potable water with copper piping like a house? Assuming of course, fixed connections to tanks were via small sections of hose?Bob
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 9:48 AM, alan P < ([email][/email])> wrote:
A few yrs ago had a Catalina 30 in the yard that had a
small leak in his winter cover. Water had leaked in
and when it froze, busted a scupper hose. In the
spring when it rained, more water had leaked into the
boat.
The travel lift operator needed to move the boat to
launch someone else. When he lifted the boat up, all
the water shifted, causing the boat to tip in the
slings. The Catalina ended bow up, sitting on the
rudder. Not a pretty site.a
— Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:I did not mean to say unexpected stuff can't happen,
like something clogging up Rich's cockpit drain
pipe. Remind me to
tell you some time about wintering my last boat in
Greece, where a cat got in through a sheltered
cockpit porthole I'd
left open for ventilation and had a litter of
kittens on my bunk. And that was only the beginning
of the mess!Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
Original Message
From: alan P [mailto: ()]
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 7:03 AM
To: Mailing List (Mailing List)
Subject: RE: PVC plumbing and cockpitdrains
I agree with Tor.
I've been wintering boats in Western NY for thelast
28 years. If you do each system properly, you will
have no issues.
I make a check list so I don't forget anything.
Last year I had to add “Remove bag of potatoesfrom
VBerth Locker”. Yuck!!
alan— Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Ha, what a neat trick! I'll do it. Thanks!
I don't have plans for wintering this boat up
north,
but I have done so with
other boats in the past, and I once stored an RVfor
the winter in Alaska.
In my experience if you take the normalprecautions
– cleaning, plugging,
adding anti-freeze, etc – the systems survive
freezing temperatures just
fine, whatever the component materials.
Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
Original Message
From: Rich CarterSent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 3:56 PM
To: Mailing List (Mailing List)
Cc: ()
Subject: RE: PVC plumbing andcockpit
drains
Tor
I've had water freeze in PVC sanitation hose
without failure. This is the
flexible stuff we all use for various plumbing
connections. This can happen
if something gets stuck in the pipe like leavesor a
bottle cap. The last
item is pretty easy to get caught in the cockpit
drain hoses. All you need
is a careless guest onboard who insists on
metrosexual beer and you are
bound to get one in the cockpit drain. Manyyears
ago, I put a stainless
pin across each cockpit drain in order to keepmy
kids legos from getting
stuck down there. The pin is made from a long
stainless machine screw with
the head cut off. You heat the thing up with a
torch while holding it with
pliers. Once hot enough to melt the plactic
fitting, you set it across the
cockpit drain fitting, then douse it with water.It
takes just 10 minutes
or so to protect your cockpit drains from legosand
bottle-caps.
I've also had water freeze in the plastic
pressure
water hoses Pearson
used on the pressure water system for the 424.In
the case of a sea-chest
or manifold system such as is being discussed,
you're more or less forced to
use something like PVC. The issue is to keepwater
from freezing in there.
Rich
From: Silver Heels
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 2:25 PM
To: Mailing List (Mailing List)
Subject: RE: PVC plumbingThanks for sharing that story, Rich. I
wonder,
though, if any pipe
material would stand up to being filled withwater
and then frozen. Seems
like that'd burst whatever confined pipe, hoseor
tube it's in, whether PVC
or something else. Or would it? Is there somekind
of marine plumbing that
could withstand that pressure?
Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
Original Message
From: Rich Carter
[mailto: ()]
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 2:14 PM
To: Mailing List (Mailing List)
Subject: RE: PVC plumbingTor
No seacocks involved. This all happenedabout
30 years ago. The boat
was a Grampian 30. It is similar to a Pearson30,
but not quite as well
built. The cockpit had four drains, one in each
corner. The drains ran out
the back of the trasom to a pair ofthrough-hulls
just above the waterline.
I took the boat out for a sail one day late inthe
fall and observed that
the automatic bilge pump was on. I returned tothe
mooring and investigated.
The PVC pipe that I used to connect the deckdrains
had shattered. When the
boat heeled over on either tack, one of the
through-hulls was under water.
This allowed water to back-down the drain pipe.
Since the PVC was in
pieces, it drained directly into the bilge. Theway
this particlar boat was
designed, water would sometimes back down thedrain
pipe into the cockpit.
This would get your feet wet.I surmised that the PVC pipes had
collected
water which froze in the
pipe. This can happen if you get a cold spell
followed by rain and sleet.
Once the pipe was obstructed, it subsequentlyfilled
=== message truncated ===
____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
To unsubscribe, e-mail: ()
For additional commands, e-mail: ()—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kidding
To unsubscribe, e-mail: ()
For additional commands, e-mail: ()
—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kidding
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