Me, too! Me, too!  My box is woefully inadequate.  It's a combination of insulation and a rather smallish incorrectly installed Adler-Barbour unit.

Bob

On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 6:11 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Can anyone tell me what's behind the walls & top of the early 424 icebox/refrigerator compartments? Tapping
suggests that some spaces are hollow and some are thickly backed. I'd be particularly interested to learn
about the L-shaped galleys' boxes, but any general info is welcome.

Thanks,

Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

Hi Tor,

Well, I can run the boat for 4 days without charging the batteries, and with my new solar panel (130 watt, $565 with shipping from affordable solar!) and my future shaft driven alternator I should be better than that – but the refrigerator thermostat is jammed at full on and at best, it gets cold enough to keep vegetables for a few days.

There's essentially no insulation in the top (don't let the door fool you – the rest of the top is 1″ or less. 

There is a hollow space below the reefer where the propane hose for the stove runs.  I suspect that we'll have to go in through the lockers with a can of 'great stuff' foam.  I know my friend did that with his Ericson and it worked pretty well. 

Also, my reefer unit is 10 years old.  Maybe it needs a charge?

But I've lived on anchor for 4+ days with things as they are and not used 50% of the battery charge.

Good luck with the shakedown.  I plan on starting my cruise mid-October and there's no way I'll get everything done by then…

Bob

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 7:27 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Don’t know if it relates to the L shaped galley, but in our 1981 U shaped one, it looks like Pearson used 2 part foam and molded a couple inches of insulation around the sides and bottom. There was no insulation in the top, and the lid was inadequate. There is space between hull side and under refrig box for Great Stuff. Quarter inch copper tube extends the GF tube so you can get to the back. Best to use the minimal expansion kind, otherwise it can push the box sides in.
We added rigid foam inside on three sides and bottom, and under the top. Forward side is blocked by the holding plate, and up against the bulkhead, so we are stuck with what Pearson gave us.
Regarding the lid, we built a new one using rigid foam, an R-parts vacuum panel, and formica. The lid is critical for us. For some reason, the sun always figures out how to shine through thr hatch onto the refrig lid.
I think that foam insulation is the most cost effective way to improve refrigeration. Way cheaper than upgrading the system.
Quent

Hi Tor,

After I had written, I had a thought and I'll tell you about it before it dies of loneliness.

I know a source for little plastic hole covers – you see them on furniture and electronics and so forth.  You can get them in 1/4″ up to 1+ inches.  So here's the thought:  Drill holes in a neat array throughout the box of the appropriate size.  Squirt Great Stuff in to holes.  When the Great Stuff sets up, cleanup around the hole and put the plug in with the aid of a hammer and block of wood.  Not perfect, but better.

The solar panel is:

Dimension (LWD): 56.1″x 25.7″ x 1.4″ (1425 mm x 652 mm x 36 mm)
Weight: 26.8 lbs (12.19 kg)

Here's the link:
http://www.affordable-solar.com/kyocera.kc130TM.130watt.solar.panel.htm

All the information you want or need about it.

Bob

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Bob,
The real question is where are you going to install the panel?  I haven't figured out a place that won't be in the shade most of the time or in the way of sailing all of the time.  One of drawbacks of the ketch rig.

John

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:

John,

I currently have a similarly sized panel (100w, 10 years old with little or no output) on top of a simple angle aluminum frame on top of the dodger.  The disadvantage is that I have to be careful of the main topping lift and that the dodger is now too high for me to see over – I expect to fix both problems by shortening the dodger about 3″.

But it fits just fine.

Bob

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 5:02 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Replacing the stock lid with a one-piece hinged lid with proper insulation is pretty easy. Upgrading the rest of the reefer with better insulation is quite a project however.
Rich

I have my 2 x60 W panels mounted over the top of my davits. The mizzen booms clears them by 3 or 4 inches.
alan

— On Sun, 6/28/09, John Stevenson <> wrote:

Tor,
Yes, those are the panel positions I have been considering (other than the davits, which I don't have and would probably be the most effective location).  My understanding is it doesn't take much shade (a shroud shadow) to dramatically reduce the output of the panels.  I don't see how some level of shade can be avoided on the bimini and dodger panels for much of the day.  Maybe at anchor the mizzen and main booms can be swung out of the way, but there is still all that rigging shadow.  I think I'll go for the mizzen wind charger for now and let you guys experiment with the solar panels.

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 9:34 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Newer panels' output are more linear than older ones – they are wired so that a little shade doesn't degrade the performance so dramatically.  I've also found that off the wind with the sun on the proper side, I get good coverage.  At anchor, of course, it depends on which way I'm facing.

I also plan to install a shaft driven alternator to power everything underway. 

Bob

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 9:55 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Hi Tor,

Sorry about the Paragon tranny – mine's a velvet drive and the only caveat for it is not to leave it in astern.  Apparently that does bad things when freewheeling.  The Hurth transmission which is also a popular transmission can freewheel or can be put in astern to lock.  I used to do that on my Ranger and Ericson all the time.

I've thought about the Air-X on the mizzen, but my radar is there and there's the issue of how far out it must stick so it can rotate – I think we've had this discussion.  It may be an effective way to do this, but I think it's ugly and (unrealistically) dangerous.  But that's just one man's opinion and not worth much at that.

With all LED lighting and an insulated reefer, I should be good for a few days without running the generator or engine.  Underway with the shaft rotating no matter what, there's power – and enough, I calculate, to run the autopilot, instruments, and refrigerator.  I am curious for the $450 to see if it will work!  That is the key.  It may even run the water maker if I hand steer for a while.  Or use the windvane steering. 

As in all things, power is the key.  You should always have more than you need.

Bpb

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Tor,
I have the same L-galley arrangement and the same problems with the box.  Like you other priorities prevented me from re-doing the box.  One of the limitations we have that the U-galleys don't have is the size of the box.  I think the U-galley boxes, as built by Pearson, were large enough for a medium sized person could climb inside.  I know you're shorter than I (6'1″), but I don't think you could squeeze into the boxes on our boats.  The result is the U-galley owners could add insulation to the inside of the box and still have a very large box.  We really don't have that option, and I don't think there is a lot of room between the outside of the box and the furniture to add more foam.  Possibly there might be room outboard between the box and the hull, but I'm not sure how you can get any foam into that spot.  You can get limited access to the area under the box through the locker at the head of the aft cabin berth.  This is where the refrigerant lines are normally fed into the box.

I also did not realize how poor the insulation was on this box until I took off cruising.  Prior to taking off I considered having a new box built, but felt it was beyond my skill to do.  The original refrigerator compressor (Grunert) seized up on the way to Bermuda in 2001.  In 2002 I was getting Sarah ready for my living on board and didn't have the $ to both re-build the box and also put in a dual power SeaFrost system.  A poor choice as it turned out.  I would have been better off to spend the $ on a new box and go with a low $ system like Waeco at that time.  I felt at the time I needed a freezer for live aboard.  My choice is documented at http://www.svsarah.com/Sarah/ewUpgradeGalley.htm

The system has worked, but at the price of a lot of generator or engine run time.  I'm still living with it.  I am considering addind a 3rd compressor to the configuration – a 12V Danfoss derivative.  That might allow me to maintain a decent frig temp using a wind or solar generator such that I only need to run the generator once a day or less rather than twice a day.  That is a next year project.

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote: