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Why do you want a whisker pole?
They give a small advantage when sailing downwind, but I would consider this marginal. If racing, you need every advantage so the pole makes sense. If racing however, you can’t use a telescoping pole unless you guarantee that you don’t extend the pole beyond the size of your foretriange. This is impractical, so most folks go with a fixed pole. It is possible to limit the pole extension with a steel wire however.
Telescoping poles are usually weaker, heavier, and more expensive than a fixed pole. Their only advantage is that they are easier to stow. As I said above, they don’t make much sense on a cruising boat nor racing boat.
If you want to improve downwind performance when cruising, get an asymmetrical chute. This will give you a substantial improvement in downwind speed. I suppose you could try to use a telescoping pole with an asymmetrical chute, but I don’t think the pole would be strong enough.
Rich
BlackSheep
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Rich,
Gosh, I have never disagreed with any advice you have given in this
forum, chutes are great but I do beg to differ regarding poles for
cruising. A poled-out foresail is a great thing for downwind work.
Running wing-on-wing is easily maintained with a pole. In indifferent
wind, a pole can really reduce the foresail flogging.A fixed pole mounts on a track on main mast is a beautifully handy
thing. There was a great article in one of the mags a few years ago
about running two fixed poles in this manner and two foresails. A great
downwind rig for cruising.I have also storage clips on the deck for my poles.
In addition to a pole, a reaching stick is also standard gear for
east-bound Atlantic crossings with a spinnaker.Pete
wrote:
Quote:Why do you want a whisker pole?They give a small advantage when sailing downwind, but I would
consider this marginal. If racing, you need every advantage so the
pole makes sense. If racing however, you can’t use a telescoping pole
unless you guarantee that you don’t extend the pole beyond the size of
your foretriange. This is impractical, so most folks go with a fixed
pole. It is possible to limit the pole extension with a steel wire
however.Telescoping poles are usually weaker, heavier, and more expensive than
a fixed pole. Their only advantage is that they are easier to stow.
As I said above, they don’t make much sense on a cruising boat nor
racing boat.If you want to improve downwind performance when cruising, get an
asymmetrical chute. This will give you a substantial improvement in
downwind speed. I suppose you could try to use a telescoping pole
with an asymmetrical chute, but I don’t think the pole would be strong
enough.Rich
BlackSheep
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Thanks for your feedback, Rich. I don’t race (unless I happen to be passing another sailboat). My boat came with a fixed spinnaker pole, a monstrous thing that was in the way no matter how it was stowed and could not be handled by any sane single-hander smaller than Goliath. I sold it cheap to someone in this group and hope they have enjoyed it more than I.
I cruised 30k n. mi. on my my last liveaboard with a telescoping whisker pole conveniently mounted on the forward side of the mainmast. It was set up to be used by even the puniest crewmember with a single line, while one end remained attached to the mast ring at all times. A simple, foolproof and very handy system intended to keep the genoa poled out and full downwind, I used it innumerable times, especially running down the trade winds across the Atlantic and the southern Caribbean, but everywhere else, too. In my opinion it is the only way to fly for a short-handed offshore cruiser, but obviously we all sail differently and my systems may not be ideal for others.
FYI, I also carried a cruising chute aboard that boat, in a sock, which I flew maybe 4 times in 6 years of cruising, and most of those only out of guilt. The rest of the time it was forever in the way, taking up way too much space no matter where we put it. Mostly it served as a sort of beanbag chair, albeit not a very good one. The dog liked sleeping on it.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Pete,
My experience with carrying poles on deck is (1) the deck-mounted hardware is often a toe-breaker, and (2) the spring-loaded end fittings in the pole inevitably (and. offshore, very quickly) seize up with salt corrosion from sea spray. That leaves stowing the pole or poles high and upright, either along the forward side of the mainmast, or else alongside in the shrouds. Either solution is a mixed blessing at best with solid, full-length poles because it puts a great deal of weight and some extra windage up high where you least want it. For these reasons, it seems to me a telescoping pole (or two) on the mast is the “lesser of two weevils,” as they used to say in the Royal Navy.
FYI, that twin headsail / twin pole rig for running down the trades has been around since Eric Hiscock was cruising. It’s a great way to go, but nothing new.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Tor
We all use our boats differently. I have a 150% gennoa. I find it flies well wing-and-wing without a pole. it requires some attention to keep it full, but putting the pole up is a pain in the ass. Not quite as much work as raising the chute, but if I’m going to run up on the foredeck, I’d rather bother with something that will increase speed. I race the boat occasionally. I previously used my pole if I was racing in the cruising fleet (no chute). I found very little difference in boat speed with and without the pole. With the pole up, you had to pre-plan a headsail gybe. On the race-course there isn’t always enough time for pre-planning. It just got in the way.I use ultra-light 1/2″ sheets. This helps prevent the clew from drooping from the weight of the sheets. I found that standard jib sheets are too heavy. Even with ultralight sheets, the the boat requires some attention to keep the headsail full when wing-and-wing. I find it easier with light sheets however.
I have a fixed length whisker pole that stows vertically on the mast. When stowed, it rattles around and makes an annoying noise. I almost never used it so I took it off the boat. If running downwind for any distance in relatively light air (approx 15kts true), I put up the asymmetrical chute. I get much better boat speed. Its very difficult to run wing-and-wing with one of these things without a pole, but a telescoping pole isn’t strong enough and a fixed whisker pole may not be strong enough either. If I head up a little on either tack however, I can make better VMG. It flies well with the wind 120deg apparent. I can fly the chute wing-and-wing, but it requires a lot of attention. I use very lightweight sheets. I think they are 1/4″. This helps keep the clew from drooping but its still difficult to keep full when running. If you use standard polyester 1/2″ sheets I think the sail will be much more difficult to keep full. 1/4 is hard on the hands, so gloves are suggested. 1/4″ might at first sound ridiculously light, but a spinnaker isn’t sheeted in like a jib. Loads that would break 1/4″ line would also stretch out the nylon sail. I have a set of 3/8″ ultra-light sheets that are easier on the hands and stronger. For cruising I recommend this kind of sheet for the spinnaker.
You might try your spinnaker again. I experience about a knot or two better downwind speed with the chute in 12kts true wind. Its hard to quantify. My estimate is based on performance on the race course with similar speed boats. When cruising with much less wind (say 6kts true), I’ll put the engine on with the wind off the stern. Life’s too short to cruise at 3kts. With more than about 15tks true, I don’t fly it. The boat does well enough with just the jenny.
I won’t fly the chute if single-handing or in strong air. There are just too many things that can go wrong. I wouldn’t use a pole in heavy air nor single handing either. Again, IMHO too many things can go wrong.
Rich
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Rich,
I always appreciate your knowledgeable input and have learned quite a bit from you through this forum. Everything you say about poles and spinnakers makes perfect sense (except that a correctly sized telescoping whisker pole actually is strong enough to hold out a genoa for thousands of miles of trade winds sailing). We do, indeed, sail our boats differently, in different environments and for different reasons. How fortunate we are to have a boat that can do all of those things reasonably well, enough to satisfy yachtsmen, racers, weekenders and global cruisers alike. To paraphrase Sly and the Family Stone, who probably never went sailing in any sense that we would recognize, ‘Different poles for different souls!’
🙂
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Yup, nothing new, but a really nice article on rigging the main mast for
the poles.Silver Heels wrote:
Quote:Pete,My experience with carrying poles on deck is (1) the deck-mounted
hardware is often a toe-breaker, and (2) the spring-loaded end
fittings in the pole inevitably (and. offshore, very quickly) seize up
with salt corrosion from sea spray. That leaves stowing the pole or
poles high and upright, either along the forward side of the mainmast,
or else alongside in the shrouds. Either solution is a mixed blessing
at best with solid, full-length poles because it puts a great deal of
weight and some extra windage up high where you least want it. For
these reasons, it seems to me a telescoping pole (or two) on the mast
is the “lesser of two weevils,” as they used to say in the Royal Navy.FYI, that twin headsail / twin pole rig for running down the trades
has been around since Eric Hiscock was cruising. It’s a great way to
go, but nothing new.Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Well, since I’m thinking of setting up a bi-polar (pun intended) downwind rig like that, I’d be interested to see said article on how others have arranged it on the mast. Any idea where one might access that article?
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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I’m traveling now, but will poke around for it when I return home. I
may have filed it.Pete’
Silver Heels wrote:
Quote:Well, since I’m thinking of setting up a bi-polar (pun intended)
downwind rig like that, I’d be interested to see said article on how
others have arranged it on the mast. Any idea where one might access
that article?Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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