John,

I did the trip…2 1/2 years to get to Trinidad. That is where my boat is now.
I’d be happy to share with you, the many things I learned along the way. If you like you can reach me at ().

kind regards,
Joe,
s/v Half Moon #71

<.. snip>

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

John,

I often just do these trips myself, but this time I feel inclined to have a full crew aboard, 3 + me, so that everyone can get plenty of sleep and thus enjoy the trip to the max (and I won’t have to work so hard). So far I’ve just told all my boating friends that I’m looking for crew, and asked them to pass the word around to their likely acquaintances. That has produced one confirmed crewmember, plus one that’s thinking about it, plus a couple of others who haven’t responded yet. If I’m not topped off by early October, I’ll see if anyone compatible turns up at the Annapolis show. Finally, I have perused several crew-finder web sites, but so far am holding off there simply because a total stranger is by definition a pig in a poke and we’ll all be stuck with each other offshore for a while. But as a last resort, the online route could prove very useful.

One thing I’m finding is that you want to be clear up front about who pays for what. There are variations that span the spectrum of possibilities, from owner-pays-all (including crew flights home) to crewmembers-pay-all (including chipping in on fuel & other boat expenses). This being a one-time passage, I’ve settled somewhere in between: I pay all boat expenses; crewmembers pay their own transportation to & from the boat and chip in for groceries. There’s no right or wrong about doing it other ways as long as everyone is clear on it from the beginning. In fact, for the sake of total clarity, I’ve just written up a crewmember agreement. I’m now deciding whether that’s getting a bit too formal, but it does make things crystal clear, especially with people I don’t know personally. Might be a good way to avoid any and all misunderstandings later.

Good luck,

Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

Hi John and Tor,

Well, I'm leaving New York October 21 for Norfolk.  My dearest sailing friends in the world are coming with me.  After that, I'm on my own, but very few overnights (if any) to the Bahamas because I want to explore!  I have a business meeting in Wilmington NC, meeting friends in Charleston SC, also in Jekyll Island and Dataw Island.  Marsh Harbor and other places in the Bahamas.  If I work it out right I should be able to live off the land (friends).  But since most of my hops are short I'll be going it alone, and happily so.

Tor, an agreement, especially with strangers, sent beforehand, is quite possibly the most rational and desirable thing you could do.  If your potential crew doesn't want to live by your rules then they should find another vessel.  Frankly, except for things like maintenance costs or repairs, they should share in the costs.  You're not paying them for a delivery – they are shipping on for fun.  But a compromise is not an unwelcome thing, either.  Just so it doesn't become a trip you finish thinking, “Jeez, I should have gone alone!”

On another tack – I have, generally, only two rules aboard: 1.  No drinking alcoholic beverages underway, and 2. all men must sit to pee.  Other than that, I'm good.

Bob

—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

All,
I will not be heading south this fall, but will stay here in NC.  That is the result of screwing off most of the summer and not getting but a few of my projects completed.  I'd go further south to work on those projects, but winter berth fees rise dramatically the closer you get to Florida.

John,
To your question of the ICW or Off-shore, If you've never done the ICW I would do both especially if your wife will come along for the ICW portion.  However I would never take the ICW all the way to Florida – too monotonous, too slow, and too much motoring.  I think almost everyone tries to avoid the Georgia ICW.  So if the family is willing I'd take the ICW to Charleston, then go off-shore from there.  Charleston is a great city and I'm sure your family would enjoy it.  It's also a good place to for crew exchange and to hold up for a decent weather window before heading off-shore.  If you can get a reservation I recommend the Charleston Maritime Center on the Cooper river side of Charleston.

Like the others I will single-hand short passages off-shore, but will go with crew for longer passages.  For me a short passage is 2 days or less.  Also like Tor, I'm reluctant to bring strangers on board as crew.  All of the people who have crewed for me in the past have been good friends and experienced sailors, if not experienced off-shore sailors.  If I decide to head back to the Bahamas the winter after the coming, I can do that single-handed with little difficulty.  If I decide to head further south then I will bring crew on board, and that crew may have to include strangers.  If that is the case I will definitely do as Tor suggested and produce a formal document on the crew arrangements, requirements and behavior (e.g., no alcohol when underway).
Since my past crew has been friends I have not been that formal for previous passages.  We had the same rules, but just agreed to them verbally.  For these passages I normally pickup all passage expenses (fuel, port costs, immigration fees, food, boat parts etc.).  Crew are expected to pay their own transportation and for any personal items.  I've let friends contribute to the food costs if they want and most have.  I would follow these guidelines with strangers, but would not ask them to contribute to the food costs.  If a crew member does not work out I want no arguments about what is owed them when I kick them off at the next port. 

This is probably the ideal time to try to pick up crew other than family and friends.  There are lots of boat bums (term not used pejoratively) who work in the summer and head south for the winter.  These include boat yard workers and school teachers.  The crew-finder websites as Tor mentioned are probably the best place to hook up with strangers.  Again I have no experience with those sources, but I know others that have done so with success.

As to the number of crew for an off-shore passage, my preference is one or two in addition to myself.  This preference is mostly for logistics – amount of food and water, storage space for personal articles, and the number of berths.  With only 3 sea berths and more than 3 persons on-board we must hot bunk – climb in the bunk vacated by the person who just re-leaved you on watch.  Most people prefer to have a dedicated berth, and I insist on sleeping in the aft cabin where I have immediate access to the cockpit and the nav station.  With hot bunking I would often have to wake a person off-watch and have them move to another berth to keep my bunk – that wouldn't make for a happy crew-member.  Also when in port there might not be enough berths for everyone even with the V-berth available.
The benefit of a larger crew is having 2-persons on watch.  That is especially desirable if one of the persons is not that experienced.  Also if things go south (extended period of rough weather, loss of autopilot, going to emergency tiller, etc.)  the additional crew can be a great help.  I did both of my Atlantic crossing with a single crew member and it worked great.  If things had gone south an additional crew member would have been really nice. 

If you decide not to do the ICW and join the 1500, that organization can put you in contact with potential crew members who have done the trip in the past.

On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Indulgence < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Hello,

From the list, there are several boats heading south from points east this fall (Alan, Tor, John). The three that I listed are all single handers. I'd be interested in knowing more about about your plans and how do you find crew (if you are getting crew)?

We're (wife & 2 kids) planning a trip south next year. I am debating if I should take the ICW to FLA and then follow Van Sandt's route, join the 1500, or do some version of Tor's plan. If I head off-shore, I'll need to get a crew as the wife has no interest in an extended off-shore trip. How difficult is it to find good crew at that time of year?

As we are in the planning stages now, any advice, book suggestions are welcome. I'll also look forward to your posts.

Thanks.

John Sommer
Indulgence #179
Portland, ME

—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

I am not single handing.
I have 3 crew meeting me in Va for hte offshore to Bermuda. I have 3 crew meeting me in Bermuda for the passage to St Martin. I am alone after that however…. till Feb when the SO comes to visit.
alan

— On Tue, 9/22/09, John Stevenson <> wrote:

Alan,
Are all of your crew friends or aquaintenances or have you taken on any strangers?

On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Alan < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Some days I think my friends are strangers.
The leg from Va to Bermuda will include Paul L (424 Owner). I sailed with him last year on Walt P’s boat to Bermuda. I will also have a friend of Walt’s who comes highly recommended although I have not met him. I will also be bringing my surveyor, who has done a bunch of coastal deliveries but no offshore. He’s well respected in the racing community in Lake Ontario so I hope to learn some sail trim…..
Paul L will be joining me for the 2nd leg to Bermuda along with my dock neighbor and his 22 year old son. Niether of which have any offshore experience but are good sailors and good company…. So – all in all I don’t think I’ll have to kill anybody.

I joined OPO last year and was able to gain some offshore experience. It is a little scarey joining a boat you dont know and a captaion who you dont know either. It worked out well and have made some great contacts. One of which paid for me to fly to St Martin last winter and work on his boat… all expenses paid…..

alan

— On Tue, 9/22/09, John Stevenson <> wrote:

Bob,

Your two rules made me smile. Neither one ever even occurred to me since I drink (occasionally and moderately) and stand (with one hand for the ship). But, hey, you’re the captain and what you say goes on your boat. Ain’t it fun?

Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tor,

I, like you, have excellent aim even in a seaway. My friends, however,
do not and are unlikely to clean up after themselves. Therefore the
Rule.

I, also like you, would enjoy a glass of port at sunset. My friends,
however, are not as self-controlled as I and therefore the other Rule.

Bob

On 9/22/09, Silver Heels <> wrote:

I am heading from Little river,sc Dec 12th or 13th to Merriitt Island,Fl-going outside -staying there till Jan 4th -then back and fourth to Raleigh to work,returning boat from Merritt to Coquina Harbor,Myrtle beach around March end.Crew of 4 both ways-have had same sailing crew for several years.Significant other will fly down.Less stress on both of us.The PE sailed everywhere single handed-got serverely sick,made it to Trinidad,married the nurse.

–
<.. snip>

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

I've have only recently gone with the no alcohol rule.
When I first started sailing off-shore on friends' boats in late 70s they had no prohibition on alcohol.  There was plenty of beer on board and we often opened a bottle of wine for dinner.  In general no one consumed more than on beer a day and one glass of wine with dinner, if served.

When friends joined me for a sail to Bermuda and back in 2001 we also had beer in the frig and wine for dinner.  No problems.

When I was getting ready to depart for Europe in 2005 I was aware my friend who was crewing had a moderate drinking problem – largely because of a divorce and problems at the office.  So I for the first time I established the no alcohol rule and my friend did not object.  He (and I) made up for the abstinence every time we got to port, but there was never a problem underway even though one locker was filled with wine.  On the sail back to the USA my crew was a recovering alcoholic, so he wasn't going anywhere near the booze.  I think he was a lot more comfortable because I wasn't drinking as well.

For me the rule has never had a negative effect on a passage, and in general produced a position result.  As I said we usually made up for the abstinence once the anchor was down or the boat was tied to a berth.  So I plan to continue with the no alcohol rule in the future.  That will be especially true if I have to take on strangers as crew.

On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Simple solution there. You drink and stand, they don’t.

To paraphrase Monty Python’s greatest line in History of the World, “It’s good to be captain!”

🙂
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On a more serious note, I read somewhere that the majority of guys who fall overboard underway, drown and are later fished out of the water have their flies open. No joke. Peeing over the side is one of the more dangerous things we do offshore. So remember, one hand for the ship AND clip on. Always.

and…

Reef early,

Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tor,
You beat me to that line.  With a compost head, everyone must sit down to use the toilet whether peeing or doing the big nasty.  I'm afraid that may encourage future crew to use the stern rail.    Maybe I won't have to wait until we are port to get rid of a problem crew.  Maybe just a nudge in the middle of a watch.

On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:

On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 7:07 PM, joe shimkonis < ([email][/email])> wrote:

GREETINGS< ALL:
CHARISMA will be departing Deltaville between 15 OCT and the 20th. Aside from my parrot, Abigail, I am single handed; no strangers, no friends of friends, no acquaintances — only trusted, experienced friends if I take on crew at all. I stay inside until either Cape Fear, or Little River, then run outside to either Charleston, or Bohicket Creek (Kiawah IS) off the N. Edisto River (given good conditions). I do not like to be offshore alone for more than one night of cat naps, period. I do enjoy the company of other boats. From here, I stay out side to either Fernadina or St. Augustine. From here I usually stay inside until Ft. Pierce, and then continue south either in or outside, depending on where I wish to enter the Bahamas.
I would greatly enjoy meeting and traveling with fellow 424 owners.
All the best, BILL

~~~ ~ (_~~ (_~ ~ ~ fair winds ~ ~ (_
Capt Bill Tice, aboard s/v CHARISMA

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

Clairebuoyant is staying home this winter. We do have a nice set of charts and cruising guides from last year, everything West Marine recommends. From Chesapeake Bay to Florida, then over to the Bahamas (Explorer charts) complete with Claire’s annotations about the thin spots on the ICW from last year’s trip and places to anchor. If anyone is interested, I’ll get her to make a list of the stuff.
Quent