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Hi All
I am curious as to what those of you who have taken your boats offshore on passages consider the 10 most important pieces of equipment. I have been slowly working to outfit my boat since purchasing her 3 years ago. As I get deeper into this the array of wants and needs are seeming to blur. So I thought it would be interesting to hear from the group.
Eric Lorentzon
Navasana_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
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Great question – More along the lines of modifying the boat. I already know all the “stuff” I am supposed to have.
— On Fri, 2/12/10, <> wrote:
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I’m sure you’ll get a lot of opinions on this. My offshore experience is limited to one trip from cape cod to Bermuda. I got the snot beat out of me on the way over. I’ve attached a copy of my notes from the trip. There’s lots of information available on the net about generic equipment for offshore. Here are some suggestions about things that I think would make the 424 more seaworthy:
Reinforce the flat forward sections of the hull up in the v-berth. This is a pretty involved discussion and deserves its own topic. If you can’t find info on it in the archives let us know.
Put in a better cockpit drain. I ran a 4″ piece of exhaust hose out the back of the cockpit through the transom using two plastic exhaust hose fittings. The hose is just below the manual bilge-pump.
Squirt some foam insulation under the toe-rail up in the anchor locker to keep water from getting from there into the v-berth.
Put locking pulls of some kind on all the storage lockers, bilge access hatches and engine box.
If you have a sloop or ketch, reinforce the hull where the backstay chainplate attaches.
Regards
Rich – BlackSheep #47
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Eric,
Boy, you sure know how to stir up trouble.
The book, “Ready for Sea!” (Sheridan House) has a bunch of very detailed
outfitting lists. Use those and you won’t forget anything that matters. One
of them, The Bare Essentials list, probably answers your question most
accurately, although it really is basic and you’re probably already assuming
things like sails and a compass. In fact, my guess is you’re asking about
the most useful “extras,” like GPS, roller-furling genoa, autopilot &
windvane, and so on.One oddball thing I value highly offshore is something I call a reversible
weather cloth. I had one on my last cruising boat and had one made for
Silver Heels. It’s simply a shield against wind, spray and rain, an
irregular trapezoid, made of Sunbrella in my case, that attaches between the
windward edge of the bimini top, port or starboard, the outboard side of
the cockpit combing, and the windward after edge of the dodger and extends
aft at least 3/4 the length of the cockpit. There’s a plastic window in it
for looking to windward. For boats that do not have a full enclosure a
weather cloth is worth its weight in gold offshore, keeping the cockpit and
its occupants dry on any tack closer than a broad reach. (This assumes your
bimini is already connected to the after edge of the dodger.)Another little doodad that everyone loves is a small red/white LED headlamp
on an elastic band. They’re less than $10 at Walmart (usually in the camping
equipment section) and wonderful on night watches, allowing crew to read in
the cockpit in between their 360-degree look-arounds. The red lamp prevents
temporary night-blindness that a white reading light produces. I’d recommend
one for each crew member. Of course, they’re terrific, too, for nighttime
deck work, leaving both hands free.Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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resend
Eric,
As far as modifications to the boat, I think all of the items in Rich's list is are worth considering. I haven't done all of these, but that doesn't mean I don't believe they are worthwhile or even essential. I plan to implement several these items before my next passage.In addition to Rich's items, here are some modifications I've made that I believe are worthwhile:
- Replaced fix prop with folding prop for better light air sailing. When coastal cruising you can usually motor to your destination or an intermediate port. On an off-shore passage that usually isn't an option, and keeping the boat sailing well in light airs is really important.
- Added Asym spinnaker or cruising chute for same reason as above.
- Added an Inner-Forestay (Solent or otherwise) to a ketch or sloop with a staysail and a storm jib.
- Added Windvane self-steering.
- Added Mast steps. When dockside you can normally get volunteers to crank you aloft in a bosun chair. Offshore, your crew (or no one if single-handing) may not be able get you aloft to fix a problem. It's nice to be able to climb, even when a small crew-member is cranking. I've only added steps to the main mast. If I add a wind generator to the mizzen mast I'll need steps on that mast as well.
- Internal halyards. This gives me two halyards for both the Jib/Genoa and the mainsail. If I lose one halyard I don't need to test those mast steps to retrieve it, just use the second halyard.
Here some additional modifications I haven't implemented, but either plan to or want to:
- Mizzen staysail – can't have too much light air capability
- Main boom preventer – not just a boom vang secured to the rail.
- Storm Trysail – A double or triple reefed main may not be sufficient. Requires modification to mainsail track or a separate track.
- Drogue or Sea Anchor – Both require a lot of supporting HW and practice in deploying and retrieving
Should I forward this list to your bank so they can plan for all the credit card interest they are going make off your account, and maybe increase your credit limit?
On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 5:17 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Eric,
As far as modifications to the boat, I think all of the items in Rich's list is are worth considering. I haven't done all of these, but that doesn't mean I don't believe they are worthwhile or even essential. I plan to implement several these items before my next passage.In addition to Rich's items, here are some modifications I've made that I believe are worthwhile:
- Replaced fix prop with folding prop for better light air sailing. When coastal cruising you can usually motor to your destination or an intermediate port. On an off-shore passage that usually isn't an option, and keeping the boat sailing well in light airs is really important.
- Added Asym spinnaker or cruising chute for same reason as above.
- Added an Inner-Forestay (Solent or otherwise) to a ketch or sloop with a staysail and a storm jib.
- Added Windvane self-steering.
- Added Mast steps. When dockside you can normally get volunteers to crank you aloft in a bosun chair. Offshore, your crew (or no one if single-handing) may not be able get you aloft to fix a problem. It's nice to be able to climb, even when a small crew-member is cranking. I've only added steps to the main mast. If I add a wind generator to the mizzen mast I'll need steps on that mast as well.
- Internal halyards. This gives me two halyards for both the Jib/Genoa and the mainsail. If I lose one halyard I don't need to test those mast steps to retrieve it, just use the second halyard.
Here some additional modifications I haven't implemented, but either plan to or want to:
- Mizzen staysail – can't have too much light air capability
- Main boom preventer – not just a boom vang secured to the rail.
- Storm Trysail – A double or triple reefed main may not be sufficient. Requires modification to mainsail track or a separate track.
- Drogue or Sea Anchor – Both require a lot of supporting HW and practice in deploying and retrieving
Should I forward this list to your bank so they can plan for all the credit card interest they are going make off your account, and maybe increase your credit limit?
On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Eric,Boy, you sure know how to stir up trouble.
The book, “Ready for Sea!” (Sheridan House) has a bunch of very detailed
outfitting lists. Use those and you won't forget anything that matters. One
of them, The Bare Essentials list, probably answers your question most
accurately, although it really is basic and you're probably already assuming
things like sails and a compass. In fact, my guess is you're asking about
the most useful “extras,” like GPS, roller-furling genoa, autopilot &
windvane, and so on.One oddball thing I value highly offshore is something I call a reversible
weather cloth. I had one on my last cruising boat and had one made for
Silver Heels. It's simply a shield against wind, spray and rain, an
irregular trapezoid, made of Sunbrella in my case, that attaches between the
windward edge of the bimini top, port or starboard, the outboard side of
the cockpit combing, and the windward after edge of the dodger and extends
aft at least 3/4 the length of the cockpit. There's a plastic window in it
for looking to windward. For boats that do not have a full enclosure a
weather cloth is worth its weight in gold offshore, keeping the cockpit and
its occupants dry on any tack closer than a broad reach. (This assumes your
bimini is already connected to the after edge of the dodger.)Another little doodad that everyone loves is a small red/white LED headlamp
on an elastic band. They're less than $10 at Walmart (usually in the camping
equipment section) and wonderful on night watches, allowing crew to read in
the cockpit in between their 360-degree look-arounds. The red lamp prevents
temporary night-blindness that a white reading light produces. I'd recommend
one for each crew member. Of course, they're terrific, too, for nighttime
deck work, leaving both hands free.Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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I'd like to add a Honda Eu2000i generator. Very economical, will charge batteries or heat the water…
Bob
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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John’s comment about your credit card is true.
As I mentioned at my going away party, If you have not memorized your credit card number by the time you leave, your boat has not been properly prepared.
Ditto on the headlamps – I require my offshore crews to have their own as well as a small personal led white/red flashlight.
alanPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Eric,
You need some arrangement of sails and rigging to enable you to heave to or forereach in heavy weather. In particular, you need a way to sheet the headsail of choice inside the shrouds to prevent the sheet from chafing against the shrouds when its backwinded. I chose a Solent stay and have a high-cut Yankee and storm jib that I can hank on to the stay. The stay is pulled back out of the way when not in use.
There was a thread some time ago about installing blocks to run sheets inside of the shrouds.
Norris Larson, Easy Reach, #206
— On Fri, 2/12/10, Silver Heels <> wrote:
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John,
You wrote: If I add a wind generator to the mizzen mast I’ll need steps on that mast as well.
I have an Air-X on my mizzen mast. Works fine, and I haven’t had a need for steps up that mast. I wouldn’t go up there offshore in any case, and in port you can hoist yourself up in a bosun’s chair. For that I use a multi-purchase block & tackle that doubles as the main boom vang/preventer underway. I’ve had to replace the blades on my wind generator twice, but otherwise have had no reason to go up there.
I do have steps up my main mast and consider them pretty important.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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You had a going away party? Damn, they threw my party AFTER I left.
🙂
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Eric,
The tropics are great, thanks. Sitting in an open cafe at the moment in a T-shirt, shorts & bare feet, looking out onto that aqua-blue Caribbean sea framed by palm fronds and a white sand beach. Soca music is playing in the background, mosquitoes nibbling at my ankles. Life’s a bitch.
As much as I advocate windvanes for offshore passagemaking, I’d rate a bimini top more important for warm climate cruising. Can’t imagine sailing down here without one, or even in the Med in summer, for that matter. I designed what is to my knowledge the only really functional bimini top in the world for an aft cockpit ketch. It provides the requisite shade, of course, but also grants instant access to the mizzen boom & sail. Believe me, you need a bimini top if you’re heading south.
As for sailing short-handed, you have to have self-steering you can count on, and that includes counting on the autopilot to break in mid-ocean. It will. Murphy’s Law. That means at least 2 autopilots. Add a windvane to that if at all possible. Alternatively, a windvane and two relatively inexpensive tiller pilots will get you where you’re going just fine, but it has to be a windvane that can be tillerpilot-steered while motoring. Scanmar warns against doing that with a Monitor, but the Auto-Helm (also made by Scanmar) is fine for that. For what it’s worth, I’ve got a CPT autopilot ($1800 new and awesome), an Auto-Helm windvane, and an ST-1000 tiller pilot set up to steer the windvane as a backup to the CPT. I also have a couple of old Autohelm 3000’s in a locker somewhere that I could re-connect if everything else crapped out. I am not going to hand steer my boat across half an ocean!
Assuming a sound boat, which you have, the real essentials for just crossing an ocean include standing rigging no more than 10 years old, good sails, a reliable engine & alternator, self-steering and a spray dodger. Sure, there’s lots of other stuff you can do and add, but these are the essentials IMHO.
Oh, and you also have to cast off.
See you in Bora Bora!
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Tor
Must you rub it in. Also I think that you do have some amazing canvas work on Silver Heels. I think that this year my big cast off will be occupying your old mooring for a few weeks. I am stuck to the dock with the comfort of being able to walk in to the house or work shop. I need to cast off the lines and shake out the wasp’s nests with what I got now till I can afford the rest of the up fit. At least now I can motor to Look Out or Okracoke that was not an option before.
Linus
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Hi Linus,
Here's the thing – if you wait until you have absolutely everything you think you need or want you'll never go. If you want to cross the Atlantic or Pacific you need different (read that 'more') gear than if you're cruising down to the Keys or the Bahamas, or even Bermuda.
Don't get me wrong – a well found yacht is a thing of beauty and a joy to behold, but if you've seen what makes these journeys you would be appalled.
Basically, all you need is a decent engine you can trust (and by engine, I mean drive train), decent sails (the better, the better of course) and rigging, and what I consider SOLAS safety gear such as a life raft (certified), bare stainless lifelines, SOLAS flares, safety harness and lifevest, a case of beer and a bag of rice. And charts. I don't care if you have a chartplotter. You must have up-to-date charts and know how to read them and know where you are on them.
If you're coastal cruising, expect to motor more than you like. If you're crossing an ocean, expect to wallow more than you like or be terrified more than you like.
If, like my hero, Tor, you can get a bevy of sailing beauties, that's great. But you should be able to manage the boat alone. The ketches are extremely manageable. I expect the sloop is, too, but on the ketch I hardly ever use the mainsail (I have a staysail).
For longer term cruising, you should have clean water tanks and fuel tank. You should have some way of making electricity that doesn't include the engine, even if it can't produce all the power you need, it should produce enough to run your radio and instruments minimally.
Most of the safety on your ship is due entirely to you – how you run her (do you leave lines loose about or coiled neatly but so they can be run quickly if necessary?) Do you have a plan for picking up a mooring on your own? It's trickier than you think especially if there's no bridle. These sorts of things and your attitude will get you farther safer than any items you can bring along.
I don't know the condition of Navasana, or what your long term cruising goals are, but as soon as you possibly can, take her out. Pound her in a seaway to see what she does. Learn to use the throttle when in narrow confines to turn her. There are a million mistakes for you to make, and you'll make most of them. Don't worry. Your 424 is forgiving and strong and she'll get you home.
As I am fond of saying (and Tor will back me up): Good judgment comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgment.
Hope to see you on my way back north this spring!
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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Hey Linus,
What’s the point of going cruising if you don’t rub it in?
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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I 2nd most of what Bob and Tor said.
As I sit here in the Tobago Cays on my 2nd rum, having sailing most of the Leeward and windward islands solo…. would add…. take out the boat yourself. Learn how to sail it yourself. Learn how to anchor it yourself, Learn how to sail off your anchor yourself, learn how to anchor under sail yourself. Learn how to dock yourself.
Once you learn how to manage on your own, you become much more confident not only in your boat but yourself. You will know what to do when you get yourself in a tight spot. You Will know how to direct your crew… without raising your voice, with confidence. (and they believe you). Make the mistakes now. Always have a plan B.
Ditto on the… you should see what is out here crossing oceans…… your boat, if it is a 424 is ready to go now!
alan
UNABATED— On Sat, 2/13/10, Robert Fine <> wrote:
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