- This topic has 9 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 16 years, 5 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
-
I am endeavoring to put a lag bolt into the lead ballast beneath the mainmast. I positioned my drill bit 2″
outboard of the middle of the mast’s port side and have now drilled down 3″, from whence the bit is pulling up
chalky white powder, not lead. I know some of you have lagged into the ballast in that area. Where did you
drill and how deep did you have to go?I’d have to scrounge up a longer drill bit (and a longer lag bolt) to continue where I am, but the hull is
curving sharply in just a few more inches outboard and I am wondering at what point the drill bit will simply
pop out through the hull into the water. I suppose that would make one hell of a good ground, but it isn’t
what I had in mind. Am I drilling in the wrong place?Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
I’m scratching my head over this. Why are you folks connecting to the lead ballast? Its not well grounded and there isn’t a whole lot of surface area. I’m not even sure its one piece. My guess is that Pearson tossed lead ingots and who knows what else down there and poured epoxy over the mess. I suppose it wouldn’t hurt, but wouldn’t copper foil in the bilge do more good?.
My limited experience with drilling lead is that you have to be careful. If the drill-bit heats up it will melt the lead, making it difficult to extract the drill-bit.
Rich
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
the lead should be just below the surface of the bilge just aft of the mast
step. I remember drilling down, first seeing fiberglass dust, then lead
shavings so I knew I was into the lead.As to why tap into the keel? well, the lead serves as a capacitive ground
which means in effect you are as if connected to the sea water without
actually physically touching the water. Many folks run copper foil to the
encapsulated lead keel and get a great signal!Rodd
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
When I was researching this for my SSB setup, there appeared to be two schools of thought, maybe more. But there are the Copper foil people, the Radial people and then the External thing mounted to your hull DynaPlate people- Ok so that makes 3.
The foil, and you need lots of it acording to some, needs to be isolated from the DC ground. If you do hook to the DC ground – block, fuel tank or anything that is grounded you need to put in blocking capacitors.to keep the DC out of the system. This all is all independent of the DC ground or AC gorund or the Bonding system.
And you need to worry about connecting to too many things, else you create ground loops…. grounds of varying potential.
They say any of the systems will work – depending on your boat and your setup. This is the part that is the black magic. Some people swear by their system cause it works for them.
I never heard the attaching the foil to the encased lead people, i guess if it works for them … but I agree with Rich on this one.
I did find one guy that knows his stuff and is willing to talk…. Gary from DockSide radio.
alan— On Wed, 4/28/10, <> wrote:
<.. snip>
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Carbonates of lead, silicates of lead, and sulfates of lead can be a
chalky white substance…. Sea water + lead + time = ??On 4/28/2010 12:37 PM, Silver Heels wrote:
I am endeavoring to put a lag bolt into the lead ballast beneath the mainmast. I positioned my drill bit 2″
outboard of the middle of the mast’s port side and have now drilled down 3″, from whence the bit is pulling up
chalky white powder, not lead. I know some of you have lagged into the ballast in that area. Where did you
drill and how deep did you have to go?I’d have to scrounge up a longer drill bit (and a longer lag bolt) to continue where I am, but the hull is
curving sharply in just a few more inches outboard and I am wondering at what point the drill bit will simply
pop out through the hull into the water. I suppose that would make one hell of a good ground, but it isn’t
what I had in mind. Am I drilling in the wrong place?Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
I thought the lead was under the main (deep) bilge, not under the mast foot.
On 4/28/2010 12:37 PM, Silver Heels wrote:
I am endeavoring to put a lag bolt into the lead ballast beneath the mainmast. I positioned my drill bit 2″
outboard of the middle of the mast’s port side and have now drilled down 3″, from whence the bit is pulling up
chalky white powder, not lead. I know some of you have lagged into the ballast in that area. Where did you
drill and how deep did you have to go?I’d have to scrounge up a longer drill bit (and a longer lag bolt) to continue where I am, but the hull is
curving sharply in just a few more inches outboard and I am wondering at what point the drill bit will simply
pop out through the hull into the water. I suppose that would make one hell of a good ground, but it isn’t
what I had in mind. Am I drilling in the wrong place?Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
The stuck drill bit would make a good grounding rod…. ;^)
On 4/28/2010 1:27 PM, wrote:
Quote:I’m scratching my head over this. Why are you folks connecting to the lead ballast? Its not well grounded and there isn’t a whole lot of surface area. I’m not even sure its one piece. My guess is that Pearson tossed lead ingots and who knows what else down there and poured epoxy over the mess. I suppose it wouldn’t hurt, but wouldn’t copper foil in the bilge do more good?.My limited experience with drilling lead is that you have to be careful. If the drill-bit heats up it will melt the lead, making it difficult to extract the drill-bit.
Rich
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Carbonates of lead, silicates of lead, and sulfates of lead can be a
chalky
white substance…. Sea water + lead + time = ??Do they weigh as much as real lead, or have our boats gotten lighter….. or heavier with the addition of salt water.
a_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
I don’t know (I’ve been saying that an awful lot lately) where the lead is,
Pete, but I’m sure it’s not under the deepest bilge section, which some call
the sump. Beneath that fiberglass be dragons. I’m 99.9% sure there’s lead
under the mid-level bilge area between the higher mast step section and the
deep sump. I mean, there has to be. Otherwise these boats would float upside
down. I THOUGHT some of our fellow 424 owners had tapped into lead beneath
the ‘glass around the mast step. Maybe I misunderstood and they were
drilling into the middle bilge section. That would not bode well for my
quest since I have a big holding tank setting over that entire section.Some in this group have tapped into the lead for counterpoise. I didn’t
imagine it. I occasionally copy & save information of interest from our
emails. I’ve just been re-checking those notes that apply to radio
installations. Some time in the past couple of years someone wrote, “I think
the most effective connection might be what Jack Tyler did – attach the foil
to a lag screw he ran into the keel, through the fiberglass. ” So, Jack are
you with us? Wassup, dude?Someone else in this group wrote, “For SSB, even though the lead in our
keels is encapsulated, by running the foil from the tuner and radio to a
bolt tapped into the lead (attach to a bronze bolt that is drilled and
threaded into the lead itself, which is just under the surface–about an
inch or so down in the mast step area (my underline). You will actually see
lead coming up with the drill. This will give what is called a “capacitive
ground”. To the RF it is the same as if it had physically touched the
water.”Ok, fess up, who wrote that?
Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Quote:
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
No doubt you’ve all been waiting with bated breath to find out where the lead is. Well, now I know, thanks to
Jack on WHOOSH, who is in the South Pacific these days. I’m sure he won’t mind me sharing his answer to my
query with this group:===================
On WHOOSH I drilled into the top of the ballast keel at its aft end, just forward of where it drops vertically
into that deep box bilge. I probably removed no more than 1/4″ of GRP after which lead was immediately reached
and I lag bolted into that lead for my first (and at the time, only) run of copper foil from the tuner. I’ve
since added some additional foil and also tied the tuner into the rub rail half-round (joining the sections
with copper foil ‘jumpers’) but initially I only used the foil run to the ballast keel.The results were quite good, at least for what we were initially doing then with SSB. We began using Winlink
in 1999 and also of course voice comms, but both were being done in the pretty easy East Coast/Caribbean
region where there are many stations and distances are not all that great. If you are thinking of bigger
water – e.g. what we’re doing now, where I’m reaching perhaps 5,000 NM back to California from the SoPac – I’d
suggest extending the foil and/or running multiple lengths of it. But as a starting point, it was easy and –
as indicated by SWR and when comparing performance against those of other boats – quite effective.Good luck on the project and, as you’re no doubt planning to do, be sure to install an SWR meter in series
from the HF rig. It’s really amazing how helpful one is…and how many headaches could be minimized on plush
boats we see with expensive HF installations if only they had done so.Jack
WHOOSH
===================Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.