I haven’t got to the windless yet, but Lady Leanne has (I believe) the original SL Tiger mounted on a large 8x8x12 (?) teak block forward of the anchor locker. This raises the chain up over the level of the toe rail and gives a clear shot from the rollers on the pulpit. The chain still feed into the moulded anchor door opening. I plan to get into this with some type of pipe feed into the lower locker for chain while leaving the locker itself for a backup chain/rope secondary system. I’ll follow your progress with interest.

Dan Kalinowski
Lady Leanne II (#135)
Honolulu

You might look at the pictures of UNABATED on the 424 website for my windlass installation.
Pearson did us no favors by their design, depth and location of the chain locker.
With a few exceptions, I anchored out every night for the almost nine months of my cruise though the Eastern Caribbean last winter. Moving frequently…. I use an all chain rode
(5/16 HT), 300 feet of it. No matter how you cut it, when you try to pile up more than 150 feet of it,,,,, it piles up under the pipe and gets “solid”. They call it castling. After many futile attempts at trying to redirect the chain I gave up. I know the limits and If I need to put more chain down….. i have a boat hook I keep in the V berth to pull the pile over. Unless there is a big swell running, in which case the pile falls over on it’s own. It’s not much of a problem. Rarely do you need that much chain. And I singlehand most of the time. I do have a windlass switch at the pedistal and I can see the chain kinked up from back there.
I believe Rich Carter has the same issues. For such a big boat. it has a small chain locker 
Tor did some major mods to his locker. I did not want to go that far. I wanted room after of the locker to put my Solent Stay on and still be able to use the anchor locker. It’s a handy place to store smelly wet things.
alan

— On Thu, 8/19/10, kalinowski wrote:

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

Clairebuoyant has an S-L Horizon 900 windlass which looks small but works surprisingly well with 200 feet of 5/16″ BBB chain and a 60 pound plow. We have the same castling problem after recovering 70-80 feet of chain. I installed an opening access port on aft face center of v-berth and pull the chain into a pile just aft of the water tank, where some installed a bow thruster. Pulling the chain aft collapses the castle in the forward locker, and gets the weight further aft.
Quent
Clairebuoyant #132

Check out Aurora’s setup on the web-site/Gallery if you haven’t already.
Works fine unless I take in muddy chain (which I have done on occasion when
wash-down wasn’t working). Muddy chain will sometimes pile up on deck at the
entrance to the chain pipe but can be made to drop with a nudge of the hand.
Phil Fontaine
Aurora

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

I hate to sound stupid but here goes. On Wavemaker we installed a Lewmar 1500 that has served well – pics are on the 424 site.

What are people referring to when they say the “lower locker.” is there usable space in front of the Vberth? What about kinks and the like in the chain going up and down?

Thanks for the forthcoming explanation.

Wavemaker

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

Easy Reach is equipped with the original SL. We generally have no trouble with the chain running out. I say generally, because once in a great while it has jammed up because a kink formed in the chain locker.
 
Weighing is another story. The chain invariably piles up against the bottom of the hawse pipe and requires that someone below reaches in with their hand and knocks the pile down. I always lock the clutch and the spawl so there is reduced–hopefully no–danger of the chain letting go and taking the crew’s hand up against the pipe. If Janet and are alone, I run below, knock the chain and then back up to resume. We always wear a heavy leather/canvas glove for this job. The chain is always a little dirty and the glove protects the hand.
 
Norris Larson, Hull # 216, still on the market

— On Thu, 8/19/10, Patrick “Peaboy” Walters wrote:

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

Peaboy

I have had issues with castling in the locker. I am coastal cruising so I
am running with 80 feet of chain and 300 feet of line. My plan is to glass
a shelf in the forward top of the locker and place the line up there leaving
the locker for the chain. I rarely get much into the line because I am
usually anchoring 8 to 12 feet of water. The shelf may not be the final
solution for long term cruising but I think that it will ad storage by
keeping the line that rarely gets used out of the way till it is needed.
Any comments on my plans will be appreciated. I also have a section with my
install on the 424 site. Sumocean

Linus

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

On Pelican, I have an upper locker about 9″ deep where I keep about 150′ of
chain and 150′ in the lower locker with the additional spare anchor rode.
If I need more than 150′ of chain I can pull it out. Then at my leisure I
wash and restow it through a hause pipe.

Since the locker is open when I bring the chain up, I just reach in and pull
the castle over. Since I’m single-handing I don’t have to worry about
someone stepping on the buttons.

Bob

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Linus Martinez wrote:

Hi,Pat,

It seems you’be hit the nail on the head. Casting is the big issue and from
my standpoint the easier it is to deal with the better.

I can get you a picture but simply the floor of the installed chain locker
has two holes into the locker forward of the v-berth as far aft as possible
in the chain locker. They have covered chain pipes. To do it on your boat
would cost about 30.00 and take an hour or two.

Bob

On Aug 20, 2010 12:48 AM, “Patrick “Peaboy” Walters”
wrote:

OK, I’ll try to reply to each of the individuals at once just to keep this
shorter.

*Alan : Unabated*
Do you have any pictures or drawings of where the chain goes once it’s

below

the windlass?

*Quent : **Clairebuoyant*
You are saying aft of the water tank, I assume you mean forward of the
watertank?

*Phil : Aurora*
I looked at your setup, but your hawse pipe is separate from the windlass
base, mine is integral so I have different problems. I was curious about
your setup though. I had no idea how the chain made that leap from the
windlass to the hawsepipe.

*Wavemaker*
Where are the pics? I don’t see them in the gallery:
https://www.pearson424.org/gallery/
Yes, the lower locker is the are forward of the v-berth (i.e. the hole in
this pic: http://www.flickr.com/photos/deepplaya/4903821270/)

*Bob : Pelican*
I saw the pics on your site where you added the drain to windlass. Do you
have any pics of the hole setup and your two tier locker?

*Tor : Silver Heels*
OK, you didn’t reply but you were mentioned. I really like your setup, and
originally I was going to copy you, but I decided I need to reign in the
scope on this project (no pun intended). 😉

Sounds like no one has zero castling problems so maybe I’ll just stop
worrying so much about that.

-p
—
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.com

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 1:19 AM, Patrick “Peaboy” Walters <
> wrote:

This is a blog post I just put up, if anyone has thoughts on windlass
location I’d really welcome the input

http://www.deepplaya.com/post/Making-a-windlass-plan-of-attack-e28093-Step-one-Pontificate.aspx

I’m especially interested in the setups on Syringa, Meridian and Parallax
or others who have windlass mounted outisde the confines of the anchor
locker, but have angled hawse pipes to redirect the chain through the

locker

into the chain locker below. Do you have problems with the chain running
cleanly?

Thanks!
-p
—
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.com

_______________________________________________
maillist mailing list

https://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org

_______________________________________________
maillist mailing list

https://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

I’ll be driving down to Va. this weekend, I’ll take some pictures.
What I found to help the castleing, was when I load the chain in, like at the dock, was make sure the 1st 150 feet or so was placed well aft. The 2nd 150 created a 2nd pile which helps keep the height of the pile down so when the chain is retrieved it does not get solid on you for the frequent shallow depths. Then all you have to worry about is the deep ones.
If you look at the times you actually anchor with more than 100 feet of chain out, it is not really too bad. Plus when you anchor and you know you have A LOT OF CHAIN out…. you can anticipate that you might have an issue in the morning so  you can have a plan….. like to keep the boat hook down there to pull the pile over…. also to anticipate that you might be hanging on a hook that might be almost straight up and down while you run this fire drill…..
Like I said, I singlehand most of the time like many others here and have done this in very windy anchorages without issue….. A quirk of the boat….
alan

— On Fri, 8/20/10, Patrick “Peaboy” Walters wrote:

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

Hi Patrick-
By aft of the water tank I mean aft of the water tank. There is an opening from the lower chain locker to the space between the top of the forward water tank and the v-berth platform.
I pull the chain, most of it, aft over the top of the water tank into the space immediately aft of the water tank. This is the space in which some owners have installed bow thrusters.
The windlass easily pulls chain from this location when anchoring. It moves the weight of the chain about seven feet further aft.
Quent

Hi, Patrick,
About a third of the time, the chain can come up without an issue….the
rest of the time, it “castles” and would override if I wasn’t there at the
bow using a “joe-poke” stick to help things along. I essentially
single-hand all the time and use at least 100 feet of chain (the remainder
of the 300 foot rode is nylon) routinely. No issues with the chain coming
out, of course…I have windlass controls at the helm and the bow (removable
hand held). Hope this helps!

Mary E. Springhorn
P424 PARALLAX, Hull #61
Sailing out of Bellingham, WA

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

Sorry for the slow response, Patrick, I’ve been out sailing
(http://www.silverheels.us/logblog.htm). Just got back to a wifi connection a
couple of days ago in Bocas del Toro.

I gather you’ve seen how I rebuilt my boat’s foredeck and chain locker. It
was a big project, but I’ve never regretted it. In fact, it was one of the
smartest modifications I made to Silver Heels – and I made scores of
modifications! That shallow foredeck locker & hatch arrangement Pearson put
on the 424’s is nice for a weekender, but pretty useless on a cruising boat
that needs 2 substantial bow anchors available full time, each with lots of
chain and rode. The only thing I might do differently were I to do it again
is to go with a horizontal windlass instead of a vertical, so that each rode
has it’s own chain/line gypsy feeding directly through deck pipes into the
divided chain locker. I installed a vertical windlass. Less bulk on the
foredeck, but handling the second anchor is trickier.

Good luck with your modifications.

Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PS: While you’re messing around up there, do yourself a favor and seal
(‘glass over) the bottom of the chain locker so it no longer drains into the
bilges. (What were they thinking?) Port & starboard drain holes at the
locker’s base, drilled at an oblique angle downward, take care of the
drainage and you don’t have that sometimes smelly chain muck oozing into the
boat.

Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

Well they were there when I submitted them three years ago.

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

Patrick

My Lewmar 1000 windlass is mounted on the bow over where the old Ideal windlass was installed. I had to glass in the old windlass hole and raise the height of the new windlass as shown in the photo of Syringa on your blog. I glassed in a 2″ PVC pipe so I could move the chain to the center of the new chain locker below. I glassed in a 1/2 plywood plate at the bottom of the locker so it would not drain into the bilge and drilled a drain hole on the port side just above the plate. I carry 350′ of 5/16 HT chain (in one piece) on Syringa, about 250′ is in the locker and 100′ on top of the water tank. I also cut a 2″ hole into the chain locker/vee berth bulkhead about 2″ above the bottom of the locker so I can move the chain from one area to the other. The chain on top of the water tank is self feeding when dropped but I have to hand pull it back into that compartment.

When at anchor I run a 5/8″ chain snubber over the port anchor roller and tie it off to the port cleat. This system has held Syringa fast in the mud in over 50 knot winds. I’m using a 48# CQR anchor and have a 35# backup in the aft cockpit locker. I also installed a washdown system as the mud is very sticky up here.

Patrick,
Re. your question relating to Aurora (chain travel from windlass to chain
pipe): The weight of the chain from the mouth of the chain pipe to the
chain pile in the lower locker is sufficient to pull the chain across the
gap between the windlass and the mouth of the chain pipe. The added weight
and friction of mud however is the reason for the occasional hang up at the
mouth of the pipe that I mentioned previously.
I would take exception with your last comment …”no one has zero castling
problems” … . The entry point of the chain into the lower locker on
Aurora is directly above the deepest part of the locker. I store 200 feet of
5/8 chain in the locker (and another 100 led behind the bow water tank) and
have never had to go below to nock the pile over in order to get all the
chain in.
Phil Fontaine

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

Oops – that would be 5/16 chain not 5/8
Phil

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

I’m about to replace my chain. Its currently 200′ of 3/8 HT. I’m thinking of switching over to 5/16. That seems to be what everyone else is using. 200 feet of 5/16 is about 200 lbs whereas 3/8 chain is 300 lbs.

Rich

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

Rich,

Do yourself a favor. Get a few feet of whatever chain you plan to buy and
check the fit in your windlass gypsy before you buy it. There are several
different sizes of 5/16″ chain.

Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Windlass gypsy has to match the chain (or visa versa). be sure to
check before you invest in the chain.

On 8/24/2010 7:13 AM, wrote:

Yes, thanks I know. My gypsy is made for 3/8HT. I’d have to replace the drum with one for 5/16 HT. I just checked the distributor. They want a little over $300 for a new gypsy for a Lofrans Tigress. Sounds like a lot of money for a simple casting to me. I’ll have to think this over. I sleep pretty well with the size chain I already use. In any case I need new chain. My chain is looking pretty sad after over 25 years of use.

Rich

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

Rich,

I have heard that folks have their chains re-galvanized in Venezuela for
a very good price… if you happen to be in the neighborhood.

Pete

On 8/24/2010 11:10 AM, wrote:

Yeah, and if you can manage to slip past the coastal pirates in tact.

Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Rich-
Try looking on Ebay. I found a new gypsy for my Lewmar 900 for $60 plus shipping.
Quent
Clairebuoyant #132

Shipping charges would kill me. I checked a few years back and got nowhere
about the chain, but I regalvanized my anchor.

Rich

Quent
Nothing on ebay right now in the size I need, but it’s a good thought. I
have about 6 months to look for it.

Rich

Rich,
If you can specify delivery to a commercial dock then 1st Chain
Supply
will ship chain free. There may be other fees, but if you can take delivery
at your office this might eliminate the shipping cost.

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 10:03 PM, Rich Carter wrote:

John
Thanks for the tip. Defender sells a half-drum of 3/8HT for $780 whereas the folks below charge $966. Shipping charges at 324 lbs come to $237 however, making your supplier cheaper. I can’t lug around that much weight however so I might just drive down to Defender and buy it there. I’ll pay sales tax and gas, but with the chain on a utility trailer I can position it right under my windlass and run the chain up into the boat.

A half-drum of 5/16″ chain is more money and weighs 300lbs at 275 feet.

Rich

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

I purchased my 300′ of 5/16 HT chain from 1st Chain. The shipping was free, but had to go to Yellow Freight to pick it up however. The guys on the loading dock picked up the barrel of chain and put it in my pick em truck. I then drove out to the boat, which was in the yard at the time and loaded it (using the windlass) right out of the barrel. Easy peasy and never broke a sweat. Good company to deal with.
alan

— On Wed, 8/25/10, wrote:

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

I did something similar to Quent, but I ran a water-tight hawse pipe from the bottom of the chain locker THROUGH the forward water tank, and all the way to the aft end of the bilge.

Note that I did not say that it was from the windlass aft. I have a pvc pipe that dromps chain in the lower chain locker. Without a crew member leaning into the bilge and pulling on the chain, the chain wil castle in the locker. But, with tension applied, I can move some or all of the chain pile into the bilge for better righting moment and stability.

I move all of it for offshore passages, and around the coast, I leave about half of it down there, and half in the chain locker. That way, when I let out less than 150 feet, I don’t touch that in the bilge, and when I winch in back in, I seldom have a castling problem.

The anchor will pull the chain all the way from the bilge, so there is no problem setting anchor even when if is all in the bilge.

The bad news: it is a pain to pull it into the bilge, it really takes three people. (Helm, manual windlass, and bilge) Two if you have electric windlass and controls aft. Also, the chain running through the boat makes it difficult to find a place to mount your flux gate compass.

w

Pat,

My chain locker drain holes angle down from the inside to the outside and
are also angled slightly from forward (inside) aft (outside). Then I
shielded the outside holes with small stainless clamshell covers (photo
attached) to further reduce the likelihood of seawater being forced up into
the locker underway. As it is, little or no water gets in through those
drain holes. If a bit does get in, it runs right back out again. I had
thought about a watertight bulkhead when I did the project, but figured I’d
do that only if it turned out to be necessary. It hasn’t.

Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

Pat,

That’s a 1/4″ aluminum plate cut to span the foredeck athwartships. After
taking that photo, I realized I needed to bend the plate to match the camber
of the deck up there. So I placed its edges on 2×4 runners spread wide on
the adjacent concrete pier and then drove my Toyota pickup truck over the
unsupported middle of the plate, twice. The resulting “camber” in the plate
was a perfect match! I epoxied and thru-bolted the plate from beneath, to
the underside of the remaining widths of original fiberglass decking either
side of the hole, finally building up the new, plywood-cored GRE (glass
reinforced epoxy) foredeck on top of the secured plate. The result is by far
the strongest section of deck on the entire boat, a worthy mount for the big
electric windlass it supports.

One of the things I did right in that project was making the chain locker
divider 2-part and easily removable. That allows me to physically squeeze my
upper torso into the emptied locker for access to the equipment that’s in
there. One of the things I did wrong was mounting the deckwash pump up under
there. It should’ve been mounted somewhere in the boat’s middle to
facilitate adding a second outlet in the cockpit area (as someone in this
group pointed out some time after I’d finished the project).

Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum