- This topic has 22 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 16 years, 1 month ago by
.
-
Posts
-
-
I know, just the thought of that subject line causes some to shutter….
While I have the engine out of UNABATED, I removed the V Drive out to get it looked over and the seals replaced at Walters. While I was driving up the East Coast anyhow back to Rochester from Deltaville it was only a 2 hour detour to drop the thing off at Walters in Jersey City.
I met with Don Walters and he showed me around the place a little bit. Nice operation there.
They machine all their own parts. Don spent the time to talk with me about my V Drive and luckily I brought the drive shaft with me. We discovered that the area near the spline where the oil seal would sit was considerable worn. He’ll let me know whether my unit can be rebuilt or junked. It’s pretty rusted out.
We talked about the oil cooling issue, which is old news here. But I do understand where he is coming from.
All in all, I am glad I dropped it off instead of shipping it there.
Alan_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Alan
What did he say about oil-cooling? Using raw-water cooling is just plain stupid. My almost new V-drive is already showing signs of rust, both inside and outside. I take Rustoleum paint and touch it up each year but there is no reason for that. My Yanmar engine that was purchased at the same time still looks brand new. You could eat off the valve cover.Sigh! We Americans used to make everything here. Now we can’t even make a decent gearbox. Westerbeke appears to be on the way out. Their engines have been made overseas for may years and their product line is shrinking.
Rich
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
He really didn’t say anything new about the oil cooling. Except that the oil temp should not go above 130 else you destroy the properties of the oil….
I am not sure where the castings are made. They are finished in there. The gears and all the other parts are made in house. Looked like a viable operation. They’ll be around while.
alan— On Thu, 8/26/10, wrote:
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
130 doesn’t sound right, must be130 degC (266F). I have an oil temperate gauge in my car and it typically shows 240..250 degF. My motorcycle runs at 260F. Odd that their gearboxes use English fasteners but they use use Celsius.
Rich
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
I never saw the case get over 124F as we motored 9 hours straight the other
day. I was using a laser temp gauge to check various spots on the case.-p
—
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comOn Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 9:19 AM, wrote:
Quote:130 doesn’t sound right, must be130 degC (266F). I have an oil temperate
gauge in my car and it typically shows 240..250 degF. My motorcycle runs at
260F. Odd that their gearboxes use English fasteners but they use use
Celsius.Rich
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
I have been about 4 years without any cooling on my V drive, and have done well over 7000 miles, quite a bit of that motoring. No problems. I think Rich may be right, must Be degrees C. The unit is never more than warm to the touch, mayge 140-150 degrees F. I have an alarm if it gets over 200 degrees F.
Patrick, do you have cooling?
-
I removed the v-drive from the raw water cooling circuit. I did not do
anything like put oil in the cooling jacket or anything like that.
One thing to keep in mind in my case is I’m in the Pacific NW where the
water is cold and hence my bilge is very cool.-p
—
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comOn Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Seawater wrote:
I have been about 4 years without any cooling on my V drive, and have done
well over 7000 miles, quite a bit of that motoring. No problems. I think
Rich may be right, must Be degrees C. The unit is never more than warm to
the touch, mayge 140-150 degrees F. I have an alarm if it gets over 200
degrees F.Patrick, do you have cooling?
Walter
SV Madness
P424 Hull #1_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
Walter: Where is Madness berthed and sailed. Patrick’s note about cool water makes me curious where Madness is enjoying the cool V Drive temp. My yacht’s in Honolulu and I just rebuilt the V-Drive last fall. I would like to drop the raw water cooling also.
Dan Kalinowski
Lady Leanne II (#135)
Honolulu -
Walter: Where is Madness berthed and sailed. Patrick’s note about cool water makes me curious where Madness is enjoying the cool V Drive temp. My yacht’s in Honolulu and I just rebuilt the V-Drive last fall. I would like to drop the raw water cooling also.
Dan Kalinowski
Lady Leanne II (#135)
Honolulu -
Madness is berthed in New England, but has done a Caribbean cruise since eliminating the water cooling. Ambient temps were sweaty hot when the drive felt warmish. My only caveat is that my diesel is old and likely does not put out fifty HP anymore, and I don’t motor over about 6.5kts.
I would encourage anyone to try eliminating the cooling. Put the hammer down and feel the drive. If it gets hot, slow down, and when you get home, re connect the cooling water. It is easy to test.
-
“Fluid temperature
grossly affects chemical stability and particularly the oxidation rate
of the basic elements of the oil. The primary accelerator of all
oxidation reactions is temperature. Like any other reaction, the
oxidation rate of hydrocarbons will approximately double for every 18
degrees Fahrenheit increase in temperature. Below 140°F, the reaction is
comparatively slow, but engineers estimate that the life of an oil is
reduced 50 percent for every 15 degrees Fahrenheit temperature rise
above 140°F, according to the Arrhenius equation for chemical reaction
rates. Hence, for high-temperature applications, the oxidation stability
of an oil can have great significance and users should assess it
carefully.— On Thu, 8/26/10, wrote:
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
When I raised the question of bypassing the cooling top of the V-drive, Mr. Walters said it was not a good idea. try this hypotesis before bypassing. If theoil begins to break down at 130 F and goes higher than that, it will slowly lose its lubricating powers which could lead to serious overheating, not immeidately, but over a long period of time. Try it for some specified number of engine hours, change the oil, and save the old oil and have it analyzed. That way you will know with some surety what the effects of running without cooling are.
Norris Larson, Easy Reach, #216, on the market still.— On Mon, 8/30/10, kalinowski wrote:
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Analyzin the oil isn’t a bad idea. Of course, you also need to have the
right oil for the higher temperatures. I know one of the other Dry–Drivers
did that, but I forget what grade. It’s int he forum archive though.For me, my dry-drive is just an interim solution. I’m sure I’m going to
replace my v-drive at some point. Just don’t want to do it now.-p
—
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comOn Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 10:03 AM, norris larson wrote:
Quote:When I raised the question of bypassing the cooling top of the V-drive, Mr.
Walters said it was not a good idea. try this hypotesis before bypassing. If
theoil begins to break down at 130 F and goes higher than that, it will
slowly lose its lubricating powers which could lead to serious overheating,
not immeidately, but over a long period of time. Try it for some specified
number of engine hours, change the oil, and save the old oil and have it
analyzed. That way you will know with some surety what the effects of
running without cooling are.Norris Larson, Easy Reach, #216, on the market still.
— On Mon, 8/30/10, kalinowski wrote:
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
Pat,
I remember someone mentioning that 90-wt oil made their V-drive run much
quieter.Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Just as I was reading this, Don Walters called me to let me know what the situation of my V drive was. It can be rebuilt with some reliability. There was one bearing seized. The input spline needed to be replaced (seal surface worn) and the output flange surface needed to be cleaned up. Various rusted bolts, gaskets and typical parts to be replaced including the crosses in the u-joints. All this included a new blue paint job – for around 1500…. less than 1/2 the cost of a new one.
While we were on the phone I asked him about the 90wt oil….. he said….. SAE 30 OR APG 80 (made by Lubriplate). He did say don’t get APG 80 mixed up with 90wt Gear Oil, they are way different. APG 80 has about the same VISCOSITY as SAE 30.
These are HELICAL gears which have different surface areas and different PRESSURE points. Hence the SAE 30. Not like HYPOID gears like in an automobile which uses 90 WT gear oil.
So……..
Alan— On Thu, 9/2/10, Silver Heels wrote:
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Mine had 90 wt from PO but I replaced it with 30 wt. Drive is noiser but
runs a little bit cooler. I don’t know why but the splash lubrication
probably doesn’t work as well with 90 wt.Also, why carry two types of oil when you can carry one?
Bob
On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Alan wrote:
Quote:Just as I was reading this, Don Walters called me to let me know what the
situation of my V drive was. It can be rebuilt with some reliability. There
was one bearing seized. The input spline needed to be replaced (seal surface
worn) and the output flange surface needed to be cleaned up. Various rusted
bolts, gaskets and typical parts to be replaced including the crosses in the
u-joints. All this included a new blue paint job – for around 1500…. less
than 1/2 the cost of a new one.
While we were on the phone I asked him about the 90wt oil….. he said…..
SAE 30 OR APG 80 (made by Lubriplate). He did say don’t get APG 80 mixed up
with 90wt Gear Oil, they are way different. APG 80 has about the same
VISCOSITY as SAE 30.
These are HELICAL gears which have different surface areas and different
PRESSURE points. Hence the SAE 30. Not like HYPOID gears like in an
automobile which uses 90 WT gear oil.
So……..
Alan— On Thu, 9/2/10, Silver Heels wrote:
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
I remember when I was a teenager and was heavy into buying and selling cars. If the car had a noisy rear end – we’d stuff it full of Bananas and sawdust….. it quieted it down enough and long enough to sell the car…..Hey I was 17….. what did I know.
alan— On Thu, 9/2/10, Robert Fine wrote:
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
I’m pretty sure that formula isn’t recommended for v-drives!
🙂
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
As we left Livingston, Guatemala, I noticed oil dripping from the V-drive. We immediately turned around and went through the whole entry process again after just clearing port. I despaired that there was anyone local who could competently replace a seal let alone wait for a delivery from the states. A local small engine mechanic who worked out launcha outboards suggested 90w oil. It worked fine, as far as I know until we returned to to Larsen Marine in Waukegan, Illinois, just north of Chicago and a long trip up the Hudson and the Eire canal. Larsen “rebuilt” the drive and it worked fine until last year, when I took it up to Jersey City ( Easy Reach is on the south shore of Raritan Bay). Walter did not think much of using 90w for reasons that have already been discussed.
Norris Larson, #216— On Thu, 9/2/10, Alan wrote:
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Walters may not have thought much of it but it worked and that’s what’s
important – especially for such a long trip. 90w gear oil is used in rear
ends (hypoid gears) and transmissions (the other types of gears) just fine.
As I said, mine had 90w in it when I changed it and I may go back to a
heavier than 30w oil just for the noise factor.I’m also thinking of taking apart the water jacket this winter to see what’s
going on in there. But should I mess with it or just wait until it fails?
Hard to know.Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
If you are able to claen the water jacket and it’s not that bad you maybe
lenghthing the life. If you scrape out all the crud and end up with
something that won’t seal (my problem) then you’ve go to look at running dry
or replacing.-p
—
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comOn Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 9:01 AM, Robert Fine wrote:
Walters may not have thought much of it but it worked and that’s what’s
important – especially for such a long trip. 90w gear oil is used in rear
ends (hypoid gears) and transmissions (the other types of gears) just fine.
As I said, mine had 90w in it when I changed it and I may go back to a
heavier than 30w oil just for the noise factor.I’m also thinking of taking apart the water jacket this winter to see
what’s
going on in there. But should I mess with it or just wait until it fails?
Hard to know.Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
Bob,
Among my V-drive notes is the following from a first-rate marine
transmission guy in FL:“To inspect/clean cooling water passage, remove top plate (6 bolts). Remove
top and bottom gaskets. Resurface the plate and mating surface of casing
with a file (?). When closing back up, use some sticky gasket spray or
Form-a-Gasket on the gaskets. Tighten up on the two center bolts first, and
then the four outer bolts.”Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
I suspect mine will be remove one bolt, drop in bilge to never be seen
again. Break five bolts. Purchase vast quantities of marine tex…On Sep 3, 2010 12:28 PM, “Silver Heels” wrote:
Bob,
Among my V-drive notes is the following from a first-rate marine
transmission guy in FL:“To inspect/clean cooling water passage, remove top plate (6 bolts).
Remove
top and bottom gaskets. Resurface the plate and mating surface of casing
with a file (?). When closing back up, use some sticky gasket spray or
Form-a-Gasket on the gaskets. Tighten up on the two center bolts first,and
Quote:then the four outer bolts.”Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Quote:
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.