Phil,
Zahnisher’s in Solomons, MD did my repower. with a Yanmar. Very satisfied
with the work and support beyond the normal warranty period. Suggest you
choose your mechanic based on the engine with which you intend to repower.
That is, choose a mechanic who has done several repowers with the engine you
have decided on or choose a mechanic and then pick the engine with which he
has the most experience and a relationship with the distributor.
That’s certainly not the only way to do it, but if you are hiring a mechanic
do you want pay for his education on an engine he hasn’t installed before?
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com

On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 5:20 PM, Unicorn wrote:

Can anybody recommend a good mechanic to repower a 424 in the Annapolis, MD
area? Thanks! Phil

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Look at the Beta 50 as an option. See my articles on this. I picked
the beta over the yanmar. Beta is the best marinization of the Kubota
line. Parts are available everywhere, better warranty (Yanmar disclaims
warranty for example if you mount accessories like a refrigeration
compressor). You can also get the Beta 50 set-up with the water pump
positioned so the impeller is easy to replace in light of our engines
going in “backwards” Can’t do that with a Yanmar. If you missed my
articles on this in BWS, I can send you a reprint John.

Pete

On 10/29/2011 5:10 PM, Unicorn wrote:

John,
Thanks for the information. I was actually looking at replacing with a Yanmar. What size engine did you put in?
Phil

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Phil,
I repowered with the 4JH4-AE. A number of other P424s have repowered with
this engine. I does not fit on the existing engine bed for the W60. I
think the W58 has the same engine mount dimensions as the W60, so the 4JH4
is not a drop in replacement for either engine. The Beta 60 is supposed to
fit on the W60 mounts (it was promoted as a drop-in replacement for that
engine). The Brit in NC who imports the Betas (don’t know if he does the
marinization or if that is done in the UK) will modify the engine as Pete
describes.
At least two other P424s have re-powered with a Cummins engine. I believe
there is only one yard that has done that repower and it is in Tidewater VA.
I know of one P424 that re-powered with a W71. That engine also fits on
the W60 engine mounts.

A few years ago you could get a Beta for well below the cost of a Yanmar or
Westerbecke, but I believe the prices have gone up significantly because of
the weak dollar (Betas are priced in Pounds Sterling). If you buy a Yanmar
or Westerbecke through a yard that has an established relationship with the
distributors, they will likely discount the engine price to get the
installation labor.

So my recommendations are:

1. If you are going to do the installation yourself or will hire an
independent mechanic the Beta is an excellent choice. You won’t have to
replace the existing engine bed unless it is in poor condition (many are).
Even then it just a matter of rebuilding the existing bed. Most of the
existing drive, water and exhaust hookups do not need to be modified. As
Pete said, it is a Kubota so parts and pumps do not depend on the Brit
importer. This is usually the least expensive way to do the re-power as
you can do a lot of the grunt work for which a yard will charge you $85/hr
or more and you should be able to hire an independent mechanic for less
than boatyard rates. Of course you may pay more for the engine going this
route.
2. If you are going to turn the job over to a boatyard, they will likely
try to direct you to the engine they have the most experience with and with
which they have the best margins (hopefully to be able to provide you with
a discount). If you go with other than a Westerbecke or the Beta the
repower will likely involve a good deal of fiberglass work to build new
engine mounts and the technical knowledge to get the alignment correct.

I went the boatyard route because I wasn’t comfortable doing the repower
myself with or without an independent mechanic. It was expensive, but
there have been no later gotchas. Well one, Mack Boring delivered the
engine with a defective damper plate, which did not become apparent until
it nearly destroyed the transmission a few years later. Mack Boring’s
response was, “Sorry, out of warranty”. The boatyard did cover about 1/2
the cost of the transmission rebuild, even though they were not at fault.
Mack Boring delivered the engine, damper plate and transmission as a
complete package.

Although it is an excellent engine I do not recommend a Yanmar repower as
Mack Boring considers their very limited warranty as their maximum after
installation commitment. I prefer to deal with companies who consider a
warranty their minimum commitment. Also the engine instruments (VDO) are
pure junk.

Here is a link to my web page on the installation:
http://www.svsarah.com/Sarah/ewUpgradeRepower.htm

Rich Carter also has published a lot of information on his Yanmar
installation, which he did largely himself. You can find the link to his
website on the P424 website.

You should also consider replacing your fuel tank when you have the engine
out. Most of the original fuel tanks are well past their service life.

Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com

On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 10:31 PM, Pete Dubler wrote:

Look at the Beta 50 as an option. See my articles on this. I picked the
beta over the yanmar. Beta is the best marinization of the Kubota line.
Parts are available everywhere, better warranty (Yanmar disclaims warranty
for example if you mount accessories like a refrigeration compressor). You
can also get the Beta 50 set-up with the water pump positioned so the
impeller is easy to replace in light of our engines going in “backwards”
Can’t do that with a Yanmar. If you missed my articles on this in BWS, I
can send you a reprint John.

Pete

On 10/29/2011 5:10 PM, Unicorn wrote:

John,
Thanks for the information. I was actually looking at replacing with a
Yanmar. What size engine did you put in?
Phil

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Phil,
I forgot to mention that if you do not use an installer certified by the
engine manufacturer you will likely have to pay a certified mechanic to
checkout the installation and perform a sea trial in order to receive a
warranty from the manufacturer.

Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com

On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 9:48 AM, John Stevenson wrote:

Phil,
I repowered with the 4JH4-AE. A number of other P424s have repowered with
this engine. I does not fit on the existing engine bed for the W60. I
think the W58 has the same engine mount dimensions as the W60, so the 4JH4
is not a drop in replacement for either engine. The Beta 60 is supposed to
fit on the W60 mounts (it was promoted as a drop-in replacement for that
engine). The Brit in NC who imports the Betas (don’t know if he does the
marinization or if that is done in the UK) will modify the engine as Pete
describes.
At least two other P424s have re-powered with a Cummins engine. I believe
there is only one yard that has done that repower and it is in Tidewater VA.
I know of one P424 that re-powered with a W71. That engine also fits on
the W60 engine mounts.

A few years ago you could get a Beta for well below the cost of a Yanmar
or Westerbecke, but I believe the prices have gone up significantly because
of the weak dollar (Betas are priced in Pounds Sterling). If you buy a
Yanmar or Westerbecke through a yard that has an established relationship
with the distributors, they will likely discount the engine price to get
the installation labor.

So my recommendations are:

1. If you are going to do the installation yourself or will hire an
independent mechanic the Beta is an excellent choice. You won’t have to
replace the existing engine bed unless it is in poor condition (many are).
Even then it just a matter of rebuilding the existing bed. Most of the
existing drive, water and exhaust hookups do not need to be modified. As
Pete said, it is a Kubota so parts and pumps do not depend on the Brit
importer. This is usually the least expensive way to do the re-power as
you can do a lot of the grunt work for which a yard will charge you $85/hr
or more and you should be able to hire an independent mechanic for less
than boatyard rates. Of course you may pay more for the engine going this
route.
2. If you are going to turn the job over to a boatyard, they will
likely try to direct you to the engine they have the most experience with
and with which they have the best margins (hopefully to be able to provide
you with a discount). If you go with other than a Westerbecke or the Beta
the repower will likely involve a good deal of fiberglass work to build new
engine mounts and the technical knowledge to get the alignment correct.

I went the boatyard route because I wasn’t comfortable doing the repower
myself with or without an independent mechanic. It was expensive, but
there have been no later gotchas. Well one, Mack Boring delivered the
engine with a defective damper plate, which did not become apparent until
it nearly destroyed the transmission a few years later. Mack Boring’s
response was, “Sorry, out of warranty”. The boatyard did cover about 1/2
the cost of the transmission rebuild, even though they were not at fault.
Mack Boring delivered the engine, damper plate and transmission as a
complete package.

Although it is an excellent engine I do not recommend a Yanmar repower as
Mack Boring considers their very limited warranty as their maximum after
installation commitment. I prefer to deal with companies who consider a
warranty their minimum commitment. Also the engine instruments (VDO) are
pure junk.

Here is a link to my web page on the installation:
http://www.svsarah.com/Sarah/ewUpgradeRepower.htm

Rich Carter also has published a lot of information on his Yanmar
installation, which he did largely himself. You can find the link to his
website on the P424 website.

You should also consider replacing your fuel tank when you have the engine
out. Most of the original fuel tanks are well past their service life.

Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com

On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 10:31 PM, Pete Dubler wrote:

Look at the Beta 50 as an option. See my articles on this. I picked the
beta over the yanmar. Beta is the best marinization of the Kubota line.
Parts are available everywhere, better warranty (Yanmar disclaims warranty
for example if you mount accessories like a refrigeration compressor). You
can also get the Beta 50 set-up with the water pump positioned so the
impeller is easy to replace in light of our engines going in “backwards”
Can’t do that with a Yanmar. If you missed my articles on this in BWS, I
can send you a reprint John.

Pete

On 10/29/2011 5:10 PM, Unicorn wrote:

John,
Thanks for the information. I was actually looking at replacing with a
Yanmar. What size engine did you put in?
Phil

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Regarding engine selection and installation, I have set-up a DropBox
with copies of the articles and several high-res photos. If you want
access, just send me your email so I can send you the DropBox invitation.

A few comments:
– Beta provided a perfect bolt-on installation for the Velvet drive,
including a new damper and beautiful hoses to the cooler. (though
someone put in all bolts instead of two bolts and two studs.
– Beta had great suggestions for the exhaust and can provide a custom
hi-rise bent back exhaust manifold (see pictures)
– The Kubota has three possible position for the water pump take-off.
Only Beta takes advantage of this and can provide a fully engineered
(not a kluge) solution that puts the impeller facing forward once in our
424’s. By fully engineered for example, I mean this includes a solid,
custom bent pipe for routing the water instead of just a long rubber hose.
– The power take-off pulley add-on is beautifully engineered and
manufactured by Beta. Not a second thought, not depending on another
company, nothing to void your warranty.
– Beta also provided delayed commissioning, as noted in my article, such
that the warranty would not start until the boat goes back in the water
(several years in my particular case).
– Stanley at Beta in Washington, NC stocks an alternator brush swap out
that allows you to use your external fancy-smancy alternator regulator.

Pete

On 10/29/2011 8:31 PM, Pete Dubler wrote:

Look at the Beta 50 as an option. See my articles on this. I picked
the beta over the yanmar. Beta is the best marinization of the Kubota
line. Parts are available everywhere, better warranty (Yanmar
disclaims warranty for example if you mount accessories like a
refrigeration compressor). You can also get the Beta 50 set-up with
the water pump positioned so the impeller is easy to replace in light
of our engines going in “backwards” Can’t do that with a Yanmar. If
you missed my articles on this in BWS, I can send you a reprint John.

Pete

On 10/29/2011 5:10 PM, Unicorn wrote:

John,
Thanks for the information. I was actually looking at replacing with
a Yanmar. What size engine did you put in?
Phil

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I certainly support doing it yourself ;^)

On 10/30/2011 1:38 PM, Unicorn wrote:

Pete, John,
Thank you very much for your rsponses and advice. Looks like I’ve got some more research to do and the Beta alternative looks good as I would like to be able to do some of the work myself.

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Phil
If you haven’t already read them, here are my notes. There’s all kinds of info there and links to references. Even if you hire the job out, I suggest learning as much as you can on the subject.
http://www.richardcarter.net/repower/

I’m very happy with the Yanmar. I’m over-powered, but this lets me run the engine at a fairly low power setting and cruise at about 7.3 kts. It was expensive however. Mounting the velvet-drive required two shim-plates and an external transmission cooler. Shop for the shim-plates from someone other than Yanmar. They are standard SAE parts.

I ruled-out the beta marine engine at the time I repowered. I can’t remember why. It might have been an issue with engine size. I think the Cummins is probably the best-fit and may have the lowest cost solution but the guy who owns TAD is not easy to work with. I don’t recommend dealing with him. Remember, the engine is less than about half the cost of a full repower. Consider the whole job before making a selection.

Regards
Rich
BlackSheep #47

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