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Guys-
Clairebuoyant has a refrigerator and freezer powered by a 12 volt, 1/2 horsepower Grunert system. Yesterday the compressor broke. It will go back and forth about 1/2 turn, but not past TDC, so I’m thinking it’s a busted valve.
The compressor is a Blisfield/Tecumseh model CE which went out of production 10 years ago, and parts have pretty much run out. It looks like the one on p.266 of Calder’s book. If anyone knows of a source of parts or of a good used or rebuilt compressor I’d be greatful. Rparts has a different brand but it requires a lot of work to make it fit.
Quent -
rparts.com
They have some Blisfield parts and a Bitzer compressor that can go in
its place with a little work.Pete
On 7/30/2012 3:09 PM, quent wrote:
Guys-
Clairebuoyant has a refrigerator and freezer powered by a 12 volt, 1/2 horsepower Grunert system. Yesterday the compressor broke. It will go back and forth about 1/2 turn, but not past TDC, so I’m thinking it’s a busted valve.
The compressor is a Blisfield/Tecumseh model CE which went out of production 10 years ago, and parts have pretty much run out. It looks like the one on p.266 of Calder’s book. If anyone knows of a source of parts or of a good used or rebuilt compressor I’d be greatful. Rparts has a different brand but it requires a lot of work to make it fit.
Quent_______________________________________________
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At $950 for a new Bitzer, I think I would look at a new complete pallet
system which will likely be more efficient with more modern technology.Pete
On 7/30/2012 3:09 PM, quent wrote:
Guys-
Clairebuoyant has a refrigerator and freezer powered by a 12 volt, 1/2 horsepower Grunert system. Yesterday the compressor broke. It will go back and forth about 1/2 turn, but not past TDC, so I’m thinking it’s a busted valve.
The compressor is a Blisfield/Tecumseh model CE which went out of production 10 years ago, and parts have pretty much run out. It looks like the one on p.266 of Calder’s book. If anyone knows of a source of parts or of a good used or rebuilt compressor I’d be greatful. Rparts has a different brand but it requires a lot of work to make it fit.
Quent_______________________________________________
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If I were to do it, I would go with a Sea Frost DC 5000 and use your
current holding plates. Talk to the folks there. They are known for
being very helpful.Of course you will need a refrigeration tech to pull out the freon,
flush the old lines and plates, connect the tubes, flush with nitrogen,
test for leaks, then evacuate and charge. (You do have an EPA
certification and all the tools right? … in fact I do and keep a
vacuum pump, HotShot freon, and a leak detector on board but I have to
borrow a refrigeration recovery system when I need one)).Let us know what you settle with.
Pete
On 7/30/2012 4:29 PM, quent wrote:
Thanks, Pete. Appreciate the counsel. Does anyone make a pallet system that would replace the old Grunert AR-50?
Quent_______________________________________________
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Nice system but $3400 for just the pallet, then all that labor and a suspect warranty for using the old holding plates.
I do have the cert and most of the tools, but freon recovery is for an expert as it is R-12. A replacement Blissfield CE would be really nice since I could just close the valves and leave the rest alone. The Rparts Blitzer would require new valves but perhaps it is time to go to 134a while they still sell it at Walmart.
Quent -
Pete
I have an engine-driven Grunert system on BlackSheep. It was an original option from the factory on the 424. I wonder if yours was originally engine-driven and converted to 12v. I have a love-hate relationship with it. When it works, it works great. Its been a maintenance item however. Most of my problems were related to the Tecumseh compressor or the rubber hoses that connect to it. I replaced the compressor and hoses with a Sanden unit when I repowered five years ago and have had no problems since. Its about a 6 horsepower compressor. Within 30 minutes of operation, the cooler is cold enough to refrigerate beer. After running the engine for about 3 hours, the freezer plates are completely frozen and the thermostatic cutout switch shuts it off. I have to be careful not to freeze everything in the refrigerator. Other than maintenance, the other issue is that if you have shore power, an engine-driven system doesn’t make sense. I almost never have shore power however so it works for me.If you’re very handy with wrenches and want to keep your Grunert system, I can give you some guidance on repairs. If you have a spare couple of boat units, you might contact seafrost and speak to them about a replacement. They might be able to just replace your condenser and compressor. They list a replacement unit for about $400. You might need additional parts. I’m not sure that a 12v compressor would be well mated to a holding plate system however. They work well when the compressor is very large and only runs for a short period each day. Most 12v compressors are too small for this kind of service. A 115v unit might work since the compressor would be larger than a 12v system. Grunert has a 115v compressor.
Your refrigeration gas is probably all gone. When the compressor goes, it usually leaks.
Regards
Rich
Original Message
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Rich,
You may have me and Quent confused…
My two refrigeration systems seem to be intact. Will see when we launch
again. I have a Rich Beer’s system on the engine and a 12V Grunert
system. These drive two double coil holding plates in a flow-over box.
The engine system is on a wind-up 60-minute timer and it pretty much
freezes the plates solid in that time. The 12V system has the
Sensi-Stat that I designed for SCADtech on it which tops of the plates
when extra power is available (eg the engine is running). This saves a
lot on dedicated engine or generator running time for charging
batteries. When I put the Beta engine in, I replaced the seals on the
engine compressor and of course manufactured a new mounting system.
Never had any problems with the flexible lines. I run Hotshot as the
refrigerant for both system. This is about equal to R-12 in performance
but environmentally approved.The DC5000 system would have no trouble freezing the plates but it ain’t
no $400 system… What are they selling for a $400 replacement unit?Pete
On 7/31/2012 7:27 AM, wrote:
Quote:Pete
I have an engine-driven Grunert system on BlackSheep. It was an original option from the factory on the 424. I wonder if yours was originally engine-driven and converted to 12v. I have a love-hate relationship with it. When it works, it works great. Its been a maintenance item however. Most of my problems were related to the Tecumseh compressor or the rubber hoses that connect to it. I replaced the compressor and hoses with a Sanden unit when I repowered five years ago and have had no problems since. Its about a 6 horsepower compressor. Within 30 minutes of operation, the cooler is cold enough to refrigerate beer. After running the engine for about 3 hours, the freezer plates are completely frozen and the thermostatic cutout switch shuts it off. I have to be careful not to freeze everything in the refrigerator. Other than maintenance, the other issue is that if you have shore power, an engine-driven system doesn’t make sense. I almost never have shore power however so it works for me.If you’re very handy with wrenches and want to keep your Grunert system, I can give you some guidance on repairs. If you have a spare couple of boat units, you might contact seafrost and speak to them about a replacement. They might be able to just replace your condenser and compressor. They list a replacement unit for about $400. You might need additional parts. I’m not sure that a 12v compressor would be well mated to a holding plate system however. They work well when the compressor is very large and only runs for a short period each day. Most 12v compressors are too small for this kind of service. A 115v unit might work since the compressor would be larger than a 12v system. Grunert has a 115v compressor.
Your refrigeration gas is probably all gone. When the compressor goes, it usually leaks.
Regards
Rich
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Pete,
Yes, my message should have been addressed to Quent.Seafrost sells a condenser/compressor unit for under 12v. It is of course only part of a complete system.
A quick search found this possible replacement for $106 (R22).
http://www.amazon.com/TECUMSEH-RGA5467EXD-ROTARY-COMPRESSOR-208-230/dp/B006ITEJHCRich
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Hi Rich-
Clairebuoyant started out with the engine drive system, complete with all the attendant problems. I ripped it out and started over about 10 years ago.
The 12 volt system we have now is comparable to an engine drive system in capacity. It is a belt driven compressor powered by a large 1/2 hp 12 vdc motor. The system was already second hand so I can’t say we didn’t get good service from it.
The local used boat stuff store has a few of these units, sitting in a pile. Alas, no one bothered to close the valves when the were pulled out so have been exposed to the atmosphere for years. Still they want $ hundreds for them.
As Pete pointed out, Rparts has a near replacement compressor for about one boat unit. That is starting to look good.
Tomorrow I’ll pull the head off and see what broke.
Quent -
Quent
When I repowered, I took the opportunity to replace my compressor with a Sanden reciprocal compressor. Its a much better unit. I replaced the old piston compressor three times over a 15 year period but was plagued with leaks from the old style compressor. I have had no issues since I swapped it out for the Sanden. I got one with rotolock valves so refitting it was fairly simple. I didn’t have to open my system up to swap out the compressor. The compressor with proper valves was a special order. I paid around $350 from a shop that specializes in car AC systems. The unit I bought is probably too big for your DC motor. I’m told its a 6hp compressor. If you bring your old unit into a similar shop, they should be able to match it with a newer model. The mounts will be different. A conversion kit might be available or you could adapt your condenser assembly mounts to fit.This would be the time to switch over to R-134A if you haven’t done it already.
I considered a similar conversion when I replaced my engine. If I were tied to shore-power, it would be a no-brainer, but I’m rarely connected.
Regards
Rich
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Hi Rich-
I appreciate the good advice. I had the same frustrations with the engine drive. For a while I left it in but found that the engine drive and the new system didn’t work well together so I ripped it out.
Compressor cost seems to be mostly about how common the model is. Automobile AC compressors are relatively cheap high volume, small industrial models are less common and mostly only sold to the trade at high markup.
You are right about switching out the refrigerant for r-134. I need to shop around here to find a real refrigeration guy to at least recover the r-12. Most around here are just new system installers.
Quent -
Status:
Compressor is toast. Threw a rod. Rparts unresponsive to email so a replacement compressor not readily available. We will be removing whole system and replacing with two 12 vdc systems, refrig and freezer. This is actually a better deal than trying to repair the existing system in a town where boat refrigeration guys cost more than Doctors.
New systems will actually use a bit more power, but we have plenty.
Anyone who wants spare parts for their Grunert AR-50 or is interested in a barely used 12 vdc SK watermaker that is also coming out, you know where to find me.
Quent
S/V Clairebuoyant, #132
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