We have a Rule 2000. It has no trouble pushing water out the transom thru-hull, however the long hose run drains back into the bilge leaving about an inch of water.
I would suggest that the two systems, electric and manual, be completely independent of each other.
Quent

Hi Lee,

There are as many opinions on this subject as there are boats, almost. I
use one of the West Marine heavy duty pumps (red body) 2000 GPH as the main
pump, and a Rule 2000 as the upper pump. Both of them have the Johnson
contact switches which have no moving parts and won’t start the pump if the
bilge is filled with oil or fuel.

Never combine pump discharges. It won’t end well if you need both pumps
for some reason (most likely a big hole in the boat). You can, as is
recommended, put your discharges out the transom. Or, as Tor has done,
‘Tee’ into the deck drain hoses high up near the deck. I’m thinking of
doing this but am also considering changing the drains to go directly out
the hull and removing 4 through hulls with their attendant maintenance and
chance for leaks.

Finally, I’ve made ‘L’ shaped platforms out of 1/2″ Starboard to mount the
pump and switch. One has the pump sitting as low as possible (1/2″) and
the other is higher up – a foot or so. Both have a line attached so I can
retrieve either pump for service easily.

Feel free to use any or all ideas presented.

Bob

On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 8:24 AM, Bead Game wrote:

what submergable electric bilge pumps on the market today have adequate
head to discharge overboard with about 10′ needed from the bottom of the
bilge?
Any sugestions for mounting a manual bilge pump below the cabin sole? Do
you plumb it in series the the cockpit mounted one?

---

Lee Hirsch
Out of da Bronx

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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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Although I’ve yet to do it, I believe you can put a check valve into the
bilge pump discharge hose to prevent water from doubling back when the pump
stops. Meanwhile, I find my manual pump will remove most of the water the
electric pump can’t get out, all but a 1/4″ or less that only a sponge will
pick up.

I re-plumbed my electric pump to discharge through the head sink thru-hull
because it’s the above-waterline exit nearest the bilge sump. The discharge
hose first rises against the hull in the cabinet outboard of the head sink
nearly to deck level to form a loop with an anti-siphon vent.

Other mods include an electric bilge pump beeper and LED lights at the nav
station and the engine instrument panel in the cockpit, so I know when the
pump switches on & off, and another float switch on a perch about 18″ above
the sump bottom wired to a car horn, a high water alarm that will wake up
the entire.

Tor

…the entire anchorage.

🙂

I have yet to put the alarms in, and I’m sorry I got the discharge wrong.
I knew it was something not usual.

There are the usual arguments against check valves in bilge pump
discharges. Jamming, plugging, whatever. If you do put one in, put in the
one with the rubber diaphragm – the lift checks like you can buy in a
plumbing store ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR ANYTHING BUT CLEAN WATER. They can
jam, corrode, clog and otherwise behave in a less than optimal way. By
clean water, I mean water without particulates in it. The worst that
happens with the rubber diaphragm ones is that the rubber fails and water
from the hose runs back. The check valve should be as close to the pump as
possible. There will be a reduction of output but negligible.

Remember when calculating pumping head it is the difference between the
pump suction and the top of the loop (highest point of hose).

Bob

On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 8:59 AM, Silverheels wrote:

Don’t confuse length of hose and head.  Head is strictly the vertical lift, assuming the proper diameter of hose.  Any bilge punk on the market will do.  I use a small Whale automatic with their check valve to keep the bilge dry and a huge pump mounted higher up.  Plus have a manual Whale in the aft wall of the cockpit well and a giant portable edson for doomsday.  much debate on using check valves but if only on the baby pump and since it is the valve specified for the pump, I have no worries about it.

Pete

Sent from my Samsung smartphone on AT&TBead Game wrote:what submergable electric bilge pumps on the market today have adequate head to discharge overboard with about 10′ needed from the bottom of the bilge?
Any sugestions for mounting a manual bilge pump below the cabin sole? Do you plumb it in series the the cockpit mounted one?

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Hi Pete,

Agreed. Pump boxes and instructions generally give performance based on
the lift rather than the length. Some give both. Best hose has smooth
internal walls.

Bob

On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 9:11 AM, pete wrote:

Don’t confuse length of hose and head. Head is strictly the vertical
lift, assuming the proper diameter of hose. Any bilge punk on the market
will do. I use a small Whale automatic with their check valve to keep the
bilge dry and a huge pump mounted higher up. Plus have a manual Whale in
the aft wall of the cockpit well and a giant portable edson for doomsday.
much debate on using check valves but if only on the baby pump and since
it is the valve specified for the pump, I have no worries about it.

Pete

Sent from my Samsung smartphone on AT&TBead Game
wrote:what submergable electric bilge pumps on the market today have
adequate head to discharge overboard with about 10′ needed from the bottom
of the bilge?
Any sugestions for mounting a manual bilge pump below the cabin sole? Do
you plumb it in series the the cockpit mounted one?

---

Lee Hirsch
Out of da Bronx

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—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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Well, I’m not likely to ever install that check valve anyway. The back-surge
isn’t enough to matter and as I said, I can remove it with the manual pump
down to <1/4" when I want to. Life is good.

Tor

http://www.silverheels.us

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

See pic of Dis Loco, I installed two

JABSCO
Diaphragm Bilge Pump, 5Gpm , 12vDC

Shane’s iPhone.
⛵.. >+.¸.·~·…¸>+

On Mar 16, 2013, at 5:33 AM, “Bead Game” wrote:

what submergable electric bilge pumps on the market today have adequate head to discharge overboard with about 10′ needed from the bottom of the bilge?
Any sugestions for mounting a manual bilge pump below the cabin sole? Do you plumb it in series the the cockpit mounted one?

---

Lee Hirsch
Out of da Bronx

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Honestly, me neither…

I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Mar 16, 2013 9:53 AM, “Silverheels” wrote:

My boat leaks too much rain water into the bilge…

Pete

On 3/16/2013 7:52 AM, Silverheels wrote:

Really like Tor’s bells and flashers approach to high bilge water. However, up here in the frozen north, trapping water in the bilge pump hose that could freeze with a check valve strikes me as not so good.
Quent

That’s probably why check valves are not recommended.

I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Mar 16, 2013 7:56 PM, “quent” wrote:

Really like Tor’s bells and flashers approach to high bilge water.
However, up here in the frozen north, trapping water in the bilge pump
hose that could freeze with a check valve strikes me as not so good.
Quent

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Bet you’re right, Quent. But if you did have a check valve in that hose
couldn’t you could just run a little anti-freeze through it for winter
storage?

Tor

Need also to turn off the bilge pumps when they can freeze lest they
energize against a frozen impeller. (Burned one out that way not so
long ago :^(

On 3/16/2013 6:14 PM, Silverheels wrote:

Either that, or sail to Grenada.

Up here, the upper section of the hose much more likely to freeze than the bilge. I like the Grenada solution to winterizing, but the Admiral has other plans.
A lot depends on the type of pump. Positive displacement pumps, like a flexible impeller pump work well against resistance (like a check valve) but centrifical pumps like Rule 2000 would see diminished output.
I’m thinking simple is best. We have one breaker dedicated to just the Rule pump, only wired through float switch. For manual, we lift the float switch with a stick. Offshore, we leave the pump breaker off, checking the bilge regularly. Inshore or at the dock, we leave it on.
There’s always the bucket…
Q

Quent,

Why do you shut off the electric bilge pump breaker offshore?

Tor

If I had to guess he does not have a pump cycle meter to tell if the pump
has come on, and he might not notice the boat was slowly taking on water.
Visually checking the bilge would provide a warning. Of course that
should be done even when the pump is on automatic as well.
I also don’t have a meter (got one, just never installed). Sometime during
the crossing to Portugal in 2005 the stuffing box on the rudder post
loosened and we started to take on water. I only noticed it when the leak
was sufficient to turn on the pump about once an hour on the way from the
Azores to Cascais. If I had noticed the pump cycling on the prior legs I
could have tightened the stuffing box in Bermuda or Horta. By the time we
got to Cascais it was cycling every 30 minutes, but only for about 20
seconds to the pump was easily keeping up with the leak. After we berthed
in the marina the cycling decreased to about once a day.
The real solution is to install that cycle meter – one of these days.

Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com

On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Silverheels wrote:

What John said, only I am the meter.
Q

Got it. I guess my light & beeper are another variant.

Tor

I’d say a good one for sailing solo.
Q