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Tor
That’s exactly what happened. The forward end of the shelf is just screwed into the forward bulkhead with a couple of bronze screws. Once they came loose, the shelf started to separate from the hull like a zipper being opened. With the shelf loose, the hull section flexed with each wave. This broke the tabbing where the flat bunk shelf and forward bulkheads attached. If the shelves had just been attached better, I think the problem would have never developed. The interior bulkheads and shelves act as a skeleton for the hull. Your repair sounds like the easiest solution. Stainless L-shaped stock is available online and can be cut and drilled to make brackets. Stainless is hard to drill if you don’t have the right tools however. Aluminum would probably work and is more readily available. I now have as much as 3/4″ of new glasswork reinforcing the bow. The inside of the v-berth is now gelocated.Regarding the portlights, 424’s came with either plastic or aluminum ports. The coach is a single layup about 1/4″ thick. I have aluminum opening ports. The aft opening ports were a larger size and not well made. They leaked and corroded years ago. I’ve since replaced them with Bowmar opening ports. These fit well and work nicely.
The four smaller opening ports are aluminum. I’ve removed and serviced them several times over the years. I’ve never been happy with them. They don’t seal well. I’ve replaced the gaskets several times over the years but I can’t get them to seal tightly. I might replace them this winter if my budget can fund replacements. I have two large fixed ports in the head. Why someone would put fixed ports in there is puzzling. They are fine and don’t leak, but I’d like better ventilation. A dorade vent in there helps. I bought two large Bowmar ports that match the two on the other side but the cutout is about 1/2″ too wide for the frames.
The three opening deck hatches were expensive Bowmar cast hatches. The larger two corroded and broke at the hinge. I’ve since replaced them with Bowmar extruded low-profile hatches. They fit the existing opening. I have yet to replace the smaller opening hatch and expect to do that this winter.
I have two small fixed ports in the main cabin. I would prefer that these open but what I have works. They don’t leak and there’s nothing wrong with them.
Rich
BlackSheep
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I’d be surprised if generic L-brackets would work in this application. The shelves do not meet the bulkheads at right angles, so the fit requires an odd shape. Here are a few photos of what I made.
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Tor
I think you could make thin wood shims to take up any difference to 90 degrees.I don’t think that just putting brackets in would be enough for a bluewater passage. What I experienced was only about 35kts on the nose in the gulf-stream for about 36 hrs. Seas were steep because of the current but the waves were only about 15 feet. If you really want to take a 424 offshore, reinforcing the flat forward sections might be advised. My offshore experience is somewhat limited to one miserable trip. Someone with more experience than me might have a better opinion. My suggestion to beef-up the shelf attachment would be for coastal cruising. You never know what you’ll get even 5-miles out and it’s a cheap fix. Your brackets are somewhat larger than what I was suggesting but is it enough for offshore work? I don’t know…
Rich
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My shelf brackets have been enough so far, Rich, but I ease off when the boat starts bashing too hard; slowing down, falling off, whatever makes sense.
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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What is the material of the shelves and how thick? (note…this is frustrating for me not being aboard the boat, closing is next month)
Is the shelf glassed to the hull along it’s length? And if it is, why wouldn’t they have glassed it to the bulkhead too? Duh! Plywood bulkhead? I can’t tell from your picture Tor.
Tor your pictures clearly explain the problem Rich experienced and as you say it’s fine and if things get rough, back off!
Just offhand and like I said not being on the boat kinda sucks, but maybe a less visual fix could be a couple of drilled holes, again assuming the shelf is thick enough and of decent material drilled from inside the chain locker back through the bulkhead and into the shelf as deep as you can, say 3/8″ dia. 4 or 5 inches deep into the shelf and epoxy in a drift pin or two. If the bulkhead is just ply you might want to enlarge the hole there with epoxy or devise a ss plate to secure the forward end of the drift.
This brings to mind another way but I’d need a bar napkin, beer and pencil!
Ken
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A lot of these boats cruise without any modification to the forepeak
shelves, Ken, but if you’re going to strengthen that known weak point, you
might as well do it right. IMHO, a couple of lag bolts thru the chain locker
bulkhead aren’t going to accomplish anything. Make the shelves and the
bulkheads at their fore and aft ends one single rock-solid unit so that
nothing can move and nothing can separate them short of complete
annihilation. Then you’ve done something useful up there.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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Tor, I completely understand the bluntness of that answer. I get it! Silly me.
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The port shelf was loose when I bought the boat, and I repaired it. When I reconfigured the anchor locker, I glassed all around the forward bulkhead to make it waterproof. Never thought of the cause of the loose shelf. Beating to windward in 25-30 with 10-12s for 7 hours, everything stayed tight. One of those few times when you fix something and don’t know it.
Dan Kalinowski
Jolly Lama #135
Keehi Lagoon, O’ahu -
Quent, thank you for directing me to that discussion. It was good! This time I “googled” your search suggestion and it came right up. I can’t get the search engine on this forum to work.
Thanks,
Ken -
The shelf is glassed to the inside of the hull with a secondary bond. It isn’t a particularly strong attachment and can break free. It is attached to the forward and aft bulkheads with wood screws set into a 1″ square piece of wood. I don’t believe it is glassed to either bulkhead, but it’s the forward bulkhead that is the issue. The right way to fix this is to reinforce the whole forward section. If you just coastal cruise and don’t want to spend money on this repair, just reinforcing the attachment to the forward bulkhead is IMHO adequate. For coastal cruising, you can usually avoid the worst weather and head back into port if things go bad. The attachment to the aft bulkhead isn’t as much an issue because the shelf attaches there with an angle of less than 90 degrees. There is really nowhere for the shelf to go.
No two 424’s are the same. Inspect what your have and make your own decision based on your budget and level of comfort.
Rich
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