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That is an indication that the shaft seal is leaking. That is an easy
fix. Pull the pump and replace the seal. You don’t need to buy a
westerbeke part numbered seal. Just get to the seal and measure its
height and diameter and measure the shaft diameter. You can then get a
new seal at any industrial supply (look up bearings in the yellow pages
or google equivalent). Go ahead and change the bearings while you are
in there as well. All cheap and easy.Pete
On 3/3/2014 5:29 PM, kalinowski wrote:
I finally chased down a coolant leak on the old W-58. It’s coming from a bleed hole on the bottom of the shaft housing. Does this mean the pump is bad? Can it be rebuilt? I’ve never been this way, so looking for guidance from all.
Dan Kalinowski
Jolly Lama #135
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It means the inner shaft seal is leaking. Usually due to the bearing being bad also or maybe just wear on the shaft.
Easy to replace the pump. A good mechanic could do it in less than 2 hours.
Parts were in stock when I did mine. Don’t forget to get the gaskets at the same time.
AlanSent from my iPhone
On Mar 3, 2014, at 5:29 PM, “kalinowski” wrote:
I finally chased down a coolant leak on the old W-58. It’s coming from a bleed hole on the bottom of the shaft housing. Does this mean the pump is bad? Can it be rebuilt? I’ve never been this way, so looking for guidance from all.
Dan Kalinowski
Jolly Lama #135
Ke’ehi Lagoon, O’ahu_______________________________________________
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Someone recently found the perkins pump for this engine.
Pardon the brevity. I’m typing this on my phone and I hate typing on my
phone.
On Mar 3, 2014 5:36 PM, “Pete Dubler” wrote:That is an indication that the shaft seal is leaking. That is an easy
fix. Pull the pump and replace the seal. You don’t need to buy a
westerbeke part numbered seal. Just get to the seal and measure its height
and diameter and measure the shaft diameter. You can then get a new seal
at any industrial supply (look up bearings in the yellow pages or google
equivalent). Go ahead and change the bearings while you are in there as
well. All cheap and easy.Pete
On 3/3/2014 5:29 PM, kalinowski wrote:
I finally chased down a coolant leak on the old W-58. It’s coming from a
bleed hole on the bottom of the shaft housing. Does this mean the pump is
bad? Can it be rebuilt? I’ve never been this way, so looking for guidance
from all.Dan Kalinowski
Jolly Lama #135
Ke’ehi Lagoon, O’ahu_______________________________________________
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Hi Dan,
Had heard that most Westerbekes were other engines painted red so did a little research and determined that the W58 is the same as a Perkins 4.154 series 200 engine. Those were common in tractors and industrial equipment where parts are MUCH cheaper.
Assuming your fresh water pump is the same as mine, it’s a two piece unit. The main pump body bolted to the block and a smaller insert that has the shaft and rotor. Unless the body is rusted out you can just remove the shaft section and replace. It was faster and cheaper for me than buying a rebuild kit.
The previous thread is here.
https://www.pearson424.org/bb2forum/viewtopic.php?t=2086&highlight=
I bought my pump on eBay from this company http://www.plowboyequipment.com/ Best deal I found anywhere and they were very helpful helping me identify the part.
Here’s a link to the original eBay ad with a picture of the part.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6599948-6630541-Bobcat-Skid-Steer-Loader-Water-Pump-843-/170902596727
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A pump for about $100 is a pretty good deal.
First I would loosen the alternator and remove the belt(s) Then turn the pump pully and see if there’s any play or rumbling from the bearings. The weep hole is there to allow any coolant that gets past the shaft seal to leak out before it gets to the bearings.
If the bearings are worn, you can probably find generic replacements. The shaft seal however is a spring loaded face seal and you will probably have to get that from Westerbeke, Perkins, or a pump supplier.
You will also need access to a hydraulic press to remove the pulley flange. Not a big job, but requires the right parts and equipment.
If the pump needs a rebuild, suggest you remove it and examine the rotor end. I’ve seen one on which the rotor blades were corroded badly.
While you have the pump off, consider removing the upper and lower thermostat housings, replacing the short hose between the pump and the thermostat housing and cleaning out any crap in there. Unless, of course, any of the bolts are seized, in which case just replace the pump.
Quent -
Check this link for more information then you could possibly want:
http://www.engnetglobal.com/c/c.aspx/PAR017/productdetail/perkins-4154-and-perkins-4154–200-series?ref=rss,par017Quent, great advice!
Bob
On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 7:36 AM, quent wrote:
A pump for about $100 is a pretty good deal.
First I would loosen the alternator and remove the belt(s) Then turn the
pump pully and see if there’s any play or rumbling from the bearings. The
weep hole is there to allow any coolant that gets past the shaft seal to
leak out before it gets to the bearings.
If the bearings are worn, you can probably find generic replacements. The
shaft seal however is a spring loaded face seal and you will probably have
to get that from Westerbeke, Perkins, or a pump supplier.
You will also need access to a hydraulic press to remove the pulley
flange. Not a big job, but requires the right parts and equipment.
If the pump needs a rebuild, suggest you remove it and examine the rotor
end. I’ve seen one on which the rotor blades were corroded badly.
While you have the pump off, consider removing the upper and lower
thermostat housings, replacing the short hose between the pump and the
thermostat housing and cleaning out any crap in there. Unless, of
course, any of the bolts are seized, in which case just replace the pump.
Quent_______________________________________________
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Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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I checked with Bob Hansen at Hansen Marine in Marblehead, Massachusetts. Bob said that the Westerbeke 58 was originally a Mazda engine that was purchased by both Perkins and Westerbreke. Interestingly Bob said that Perkins was no longer supporting their version of this Mazda-based engine and was no longer supplying parts. The parts Perkins has may be old stock. It’s also possible that just the Marine division of Perkins no longer providing support but that the tractor division still is. So, depending on their suitability–I have no idea what the marinizing process entails–it might make sense to grab those Perkins parts while they are still available. Westerbeke is still supporting the 58 with Mazda parts albeit at the usual arm-and-leg price.
RogerOn Mar 3, 2014, at 10:36 PM, “skipmac” wrote:
Hi Dan,
Had heard that most Westerbekes were other engines painted red so did a little research and determined that the W58 is the same as a Perkins 4.154 series 200 engine. Those were common in tractors and industrial equipment where parts are MUCH cheaper.
Assuming your fresh water pump is the same as mine, it’s a two piece unit. The main pump body bolted to the block and a smaller insert that has the shaft and rotor. Unless the body is rusted out you can just remove the shaft section and replace. It was faster and cheaper for me than buying a rebuild kit.
The previous thread is here.
https://www.pearson424.org/bb2forum/viewtopic.php?t=2086&highlight=
I bought my pump on eBay from this company http://www.plowboyequipment.com/ Best deal I found anywhere and they were very helpful helping me identify the part.
Here’s a link to the original eBay ad with a picture of the part.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6599948-6630541-Bobcat-Skid-Steer-Loader-Water-Pump-843-/170902596727
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It would be helpful to know which Mazda engine. I know it was used in the
B-200 pickup truck.Bob
On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 10:24 AM, Roger Bigger wrote:
I checked with Bob Hansen at Hansen Marine in Marblehead, Massachusetts.
Bob said that the Westerbeke 58 was originally a Mazda engine that was
purchased by both Perkins and Westerbreke. Interestingly Bob said that
Perkins was no longer supporting their version of this Mazda-based engine
and was no longer supplying parts. The parts Perkins has may be old stock.
It’s also possible that just the Marine division of Perkins no longer
providing support but that the tractor division still is. So, depending on
their suitability–I have no idea what the marinizing process entails–it
might make sense to grab those Perkins parts while they are still
available. Westerbeke is still supporting the 58 with Mazda parts albeit at
the usual arm-and-leg price.
RogerOn Mar 3, 2014, at 10:36 PM, “skipmac” wrote:
Hi Dan,
Had heard that most Westerbekes were other engines painted red so did a
little research and determined that the W58 is the same as a Perkins 4.154
series 200 engine. Those were common in tractors and industrial equipment
where parts are MUCH cheaper.Assuming your fresh water pump is the same as mine, it’s a two piece
unit. The main pump body bolted to the block and a smaller insert that
has the shaft and rotor. Unless the body is rusted out you can just remove
the shaft section and replace. It was faster and cheaper for me than
buying a rebuild kit.The previous thread is here.
https://www.pearson424.org/bb2forum/viewtopic.php?t=2086&highlight=
I bought my pump on eBay from this company
http://www.plowboyequipment.com/ Best deal I found anywhere and they
were very helpful helping me identify the part.Here’s a link to the original eBay ad with a picture of the part.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6599948-6630541-Bobcat-Skid-Steer-Loader-Water-Pump-843-/170902596727
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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A word to the wise…
I had a bad experience with my old W-60. Hansen is in the next town over to where I keep my boat. They are the logical supplier for parts and service. I found it getting increasingly expensive to buy parts for my engine. Some were no longer even available, at any price. I eventually got disgusted and pulled the Westerbeke and swapped in a Yanmar. While the Yanmar is a much better engine, this was a huge expense that should have been avoidable. If I owned a W-58, I’d be stocking my spare parts bin with things like injectors, pumps, manifold, glow-plugs, gaskets, etc while you still can. If one of you finds an off-the-shelf source for generic parts, you might get together to make a buy. Buying a junk motor just for parts might make sense.There comes a point in time where nursing the old beast doesn’t make sense. You’ll be replacing the W-58 at some point in time. Continuing to throw money at it when that money could be better spent on a new engine may make better sense. What tipped the scales for me was a leaky fuel tank. I had to pull the engine anyway to replace the fuel tank.
I underestimated the total cost for a repower when I made that decision. I was expecting around $15K if I did all the work. Parts alone for the Yanmar ran north of $20K, engine, V-drive, drive-gear, exhaust, hoses, mounts, etc. A large piece of this was the V-drive, shaft, and prop. You might get by without replacing these initially, but the V-drives only last about 30 years after which they rust out. Replacing the V-drive lets you select different gear reduction ratios. This opens your engine selection to more engines. Your old prop may not be properly cut for whatever engine you select… Once you start, things add up quickly. Even though repowering was hugely expensive, I’m glad I did it. The boat cruises faster and more comfortably.
Rich
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From what I can gather, the 4-154 series 200 is still manufactured and
still in use. Any 4-154 older than 83, I think, is probably not supported.Bob
On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 11:46 AM, wrote:
Quote:A word to the wise…
I had a bad experience with my old W-60. Hansen is in the next town over
to where I keep my boat. They are the logical supplier for parts and
service. I found it getting increasingly expensive to buy parts for my
engine. Some were no longer even available, at any price. I eventually
got disgusted and pulled the Westerbeke and swapped in a Yanmar. While the
Yanmar is a much better engine, this was a huge expense that should have
been avoidable. If I owned a W-58, I’d be stocking my spare parts bin with
things like injectors, pumps, manifold, glow-plugs, gaskets, etc while you
still can. If one of you finds an off-the-shelf source for generic parts,
you might get together to make a buy. Buying a junk motor just for parts
might make sense.There comes a point in time where nursing the old beast doesn’t make
sense. You’ll be replacing the W-58 at some point in time. Continuing to
throw money at it when that money could be better spent on a new engine may
make better sense. What tipped the scales for me was a leaky fuel tank. I
had to pull the engine anyway to replace the fuel tank.I underestimated the total cost for a repower when I made that decision.
I was expecting around $15K if I did all the work. Parts alone for the
Yanmar ran north of $20K, engine, V-drive, drive-gear, exhaust, hoses,
mounts, etc. A large piece of this was the V-drive, shaft, and prop. You
might get by without replacing these initially, but the V-drives only last
about 30 years after which they rust out. Replacing the V-drive lets you
select different gear reduction ratios. This opens your engine selection
to more engines. Your old prop may not be properly cut for whatever engine
you select… Once you start, things add up quickly. Even though
repowering was hugely expensive, I’m glad I did it. The boat cruises
faster and more comfortably.Rich
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Hi Rich,
Excellent comments on the repower vs dumping money into an old Westerbeke. I am of the same opinion. Still keeping my W58 going with minimal trouble and I did indeed find an old W58 that I bought for parts. Now have spare starter, spare fresh water pump, injector pump, injectors, glow plugs and even a head if it comes to that.
But bottom line, if the oil pressure starts going, rods knocking or anything that looks like anything more than minor repairs or replacing a few parts then I guess I’ll bite the bullet and go new. Like you I would also go with new V-drive and transmission. Just seems to make sense that if you’re going to tear the boat apart to replace the engine you may as well do the rest while you’re at it.
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Likewise here, I picked up a used but running W58 as a spare $1K. Because it’s running it can be tested on a dynometer. That will cost $450. If a full rebuild is in order, that will be $6-8K. Discoverie, formally Kismet, had a new stainless fuel tank in 2010, the engine a new head and transmission, and I had the v-drive rebuilt by Walter Gear last year for about $1400. Don at Walter said the rebuilt v-drive was good for another 15 or so years so the rusting out issue isn’t a certainty at 30 years–knocking wood now. Also got a bonus when my yard hauled the boat and bent the prop shaft last fall. They will now have to install a new shaft and cutlass bearing.
All this to say, and agree with the previous comments, that rebuilding is in part an economic decision that needs to be based on each boat’s particular circumstances. I’ll probably rebuild the spare W58 next year as that seems to be the most economical way to keep Discoverie underway for the foreseeable future.
Question: if spares were being collected, what would be on your list?
Roger
On Mar 4, 2014, at 1:36 PM, “skipmac” wrote:
Hi Rich,
Excellent comments on the repower vs dumping money into an old Westerbeke. I am of the same opinion. Still keeping my W58 going with minimal trouble and I did indeed find an old W58 that I bought for parts. Now have spare starter, spare fresh water pump, injector pump, injectors, glow plugs and even a head if it comes to that.
But bottom line, if the oil pressure starts going, rods knocking or anything that looks like anything more than minor repairs or replacing a few parts then I guess I’ll bite the bullet and go new. Like you I would also go with new V-drive and transmission. Just seems to make sense that if you’re going to tear the boat apart to replace the engine you may as well do the rest while you’re at it.
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Regarding spares, I divide mine into two groups.
Group 1. The parts that fall into one or more of these categories.
– fail most commonly
– will leave you dead in the water
– I can replace with onboard tools or in a remote or third world locationGroup 2. The expensive or hard to find parts that I would probably need a mechanic, shop or assistance to replace but still might get my engine back up and running short of a bottom end rebuld.
First group would be starter, water pump(s) or pump rebuild kits, fuel pump, alternator and the usual filters and such. Maybe include spare injectors and glow plugs.
Second group would be things like the injector pump, head and head gasket, valve train parts.
Group one parts I would carry with me if going far from home. Group two would probably store at home but have some way to get them sent to me if needed.
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Injectors definitely in group one. AND know how to replace them yourself!
Would have saved me from having to sail into Bermuda in the middle of the night in a blinding rainstorm.
AlanSent from my iPhone
On Mar 4, 2014, at 6:21 PM, “skipmac” wrote:
Regarding spares, I divide mine into two groups.
Group 1. The parts that fall into one or more of these categories.
– fail most commonly
– will leave you dead in the water
– I can replace with onboard tools or in a remote or third world locationGroup 2. The expensive or hard to find parts that I would probably need a mechanic, shop or assistance to replace but still might get my engine back up and running short of a bottom end rebuld.
First group would be starter, water pump(s) or pump rebuild kits, fuel pump, alternator and the usual filters and such. Maybe include spare injectors and glow plugs.
Second group would be things like the injector pump, head and head gasket, valve train parts.
Group one parts I would carry with me if going far from home. Group two would probably store at home but have some way to get them sent to me if needed.
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I’m thinking I should pull the injectors from my spare engine and have then tested and rebuilt as needed and add to my spares.
So never having had to replace an injector is there anything more than pulling the old one, inserting the new, torqueing down the bolts that hold it in, attach the fuel lines and go? Any special concerns?
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You need a new copper washer. If you have to use the old one, you need to
anneal it again (heat it over the stove until red, let air cool) so that it
seals properly.If you purchase them as Westerbeke washers, I’m sure multi $, if from
Tractor Supply or somewhere, $.50 or so, maybe less.Bob
On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:20 AM, skipmac wrote:
I’m thinking I should pull the injectors from my spare engine and have
then tested and rebuilt as needed and add to my spares.So never having had to replace an injector is there anything more than
pulling the old one, inserting the new, torqueing down the bolts that hold
it in, attach the fuel lines and go? Any special concerns?_______________________________________________
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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I’ve had mine rebuilt and tested at an over the road diesel truck repair place. 50-$60 bucks, comes with the new washer.
If the old one is a little hard to come out, don’t pry on it. loosen up the bolts a little bit, turn the engine over they will just pop out. keep the Bolts in place. make sure the whole area is clean clean clean.
AlanSent from my iPhone
On Mar 5, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Robert Fine wrote:
You need a new copper washer. If you have to use the old one, you need to
anneal it again (heat it over the stove until red, let air cool) so that it
seals properly.If you purchase them as Westerbeke washers, I’m sure multi $, if from
Tractor Supply or somewhere, $.50 or so, maybe less.Bob
On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:20 AM, skipmac wrote:
I’m thinking I should pull the injectors from my spare engine and have
then tested and rebuilt as needed and add to my spares.So never having had to replace an injector is there anything more than
pulling the old one, inserting the new, torqueing down the bolts that hold
it in, attach the fuel lines and go? Any special concerns?_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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