Please attach drawing.

Thanks,

Bob

On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 9:21 PM, cbboat wrote:

Since my batteries are fried, I’ll redo the battery wiring when I replace
the batteries.

Here is a diagram of my plan and a few questions.

Existing equipment: AC powered charger, Group 27 start battery,
alternator, starter, On/Off and 1-both-2-off switches

Batteries will be four US Battery US2200 XC 6v batteries @ 232 AH.
Two of them wired in series, the two pair wired parallel to total of 464AH.
Here is the diagram.

1. Is this going to work?

2. What am I missing?

3. What meter do I need (current meter is analog volt meter). Will a
digital voltmeter connected to both banks suffice? I want to measure volts
coming out of alternator and I don’t know what I want to measure on the
house bank, any recommendations on amp/volt/AH meters?

4. I suppose I need to have some kind of meter on the start battery to
keep an eye on that. meter that shows the voltage of the starter battery?

5. When wiring alternator output directly to the house battery, does the
wire have to be wired directly to the battery’s positive terminal or can it
go through a bus bar, as shown in diagram? Same question for the echo
charger lead to the house bank. Dashed lines indicate input cable going
directly to the positive terminal, rather than through a bus bar.

The diagram is drawn in normal operating position, where the 1-both-2-off
switch is on 1, connecting house bank with DC panel and ON/Off set for On
so starter pulls from starter battery.

The diagram shows shunts for meters. If I have a volt meter connected to
the pos terminal, do I need a shunt? Should the voltmeter be connected to
the shunts?

The alternator is wired to house and echo charger sends excess to starter.
110volt battery charger connected directly to both banks (starter and
house).

If starter battery fails, I change the 1-both-2-Off switch to Both and use
house bank to start engine.

If house bank fails, I change to 2 and use start for house (hope I don’t
do that accidentally!).

Fuses: one on each positive battery cable, where else?

Thanks,
Craig

[Image:
http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y520/scherzoja/electrical/BatteryRewire_zpsa977c69a.jpg%5D

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s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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The first thing I see is your house battery hookup doesn’t seem correct.
Too many wires. It’s too late just now to go over the whole thing.
Tomorrow I’ll have a better look.

Bob

On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 9:27 PM, Robert Fine wrote:

Please attach drawing.

Thanks,

Bob

On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 9:21 PM, cbboat wrote:

Since my batteries are fried, I’ll redo the battery wiring when I replace
the batteries.

Here is a diagram of my plan and a few questions.

Existing equipment: AC powered charger, Group 27 start battery,
alternator, starter, On/Off and 1-both-2-off switches

Batteries will be four US Battery US2200 XC 6v batteries @ 232 AH.
Two of them wired in series, the two pair wired parallel to total of
464AH.
Here is the diagram.

1. Is this going to work?

2. What am I missing?

3. What meter do I need (current meter is analog volt meter). Will a
digital voltmeter connected to both banks suffice? I want to measure volts
coming out of alternator and I don’t know what I want to measure on the
house bank, any recommendations on amp/volt/AH meters?

4. I suppose I need to have some kind of meter on the start battery to
keep an eye on that. meter that shows the voltage of the starter battery?

5. When wiring alternator output directly to the house battery, does the
wire have to be wired directly to the battery’s positive terminal or can it
go through a bus bar, as shown in diagram? Same question for the echo
charger lead to the house bank. Dashed lines indicate input cable going
directly to the positive terminal, rather than through a bus bar.

The diagram is drawn in normal operating position, where the 1-both-2-off
switch is on 1, connecting house bank with DC panel and ON/Off set for On
so starter pulls from starter battery.

The diagram shows shunts for meters. If I have a volt meter connected to
the pos terminal, do I need a shunt? Should the voltmeter be connected to
the shunts?

The alternator is wired to house and echo charger sends excess to starter.
110volt battery charger connected directly to both banks (starter and
house).

If starter battery fails, I change the 1-both-2-Off switch to Both and
use house bank to start engine.

If house bank fails, I change to 2 and use start for house (hope I don’t
do that accidentally!).

Fuses: one on each positive battery cable, where else?

Thanks,
Craig

[Image:
http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y520/scherzoja/electrical/BatteryRewire_zpsa977c69a.jpg%5D

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—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com

—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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Shunts are used for amp meters. Volt meters don’t use shunts.
Better to purchase one of the fancy digital meters that show amps in and out
A

Sent from my iPhone

On May 6, 2014, at 9:21 PM, “cbboat” wrote:

Since my batteries are fried, I’ll redo the battery wiring when I replace the batteries.

Here is a diagram of my plan and a few questions.

Existing equipment: AC powered charger, Group 27 start battery, alternator, starter, On/Off and 1-both-2-off switches

Batteries will be four US Battery US2200 XC 6v batteries @ 232 AH.
Two of them wired in series, the two pair wired parallel to total of 464AH.
Here is the diagram.

1. Is this going to work?

2. What am I missing?

3. What meter do I need (current meter is analog volt meter). Will a digital voltmeter connected to both banks suffice? I want to measure volts coming out of alternator and I don’t know what I want to measure on the house bank, any recommendations on amp/volt/AH meters?

4. I suppose I need to have some kind of meter on the start battery to keep an eye on that. meter that shows the voltage of the starter battery?

5. When wiring alternator output directly to the house battery, does the wire have to be wired directly to the battery’s positive terminal or can it go through a bus bar, as shown in diagram? Same question for the echo charger lead to the house bank. Dashed lines indicate input cable going directly to the positive terminal, rather than through a bus bar.

The diagram is drawn in normal operating position, where the 1-both-2-off switch is on 1, connecting house bank with DC panel and ON/Off set for On so starter pulls from starter battery.

The diagram shows shunts for meters. If I have a volt meter connected to the pos terminal, do I need a shunt? Should the voltmeter be connected to the shunts?

The alternator is wired to house and echo charger sends excess to starter.
110volt battery charger connected directly to both banks (starter and house).

If starter battery fails, I change the 1-both-2-Off switch to Both and use house bank to start engine.

If house bank fails, I change to 2 and use start for house (hope I don’t do that accidentally!).

Fuses: one on each positive battery cable, where else?

Thanks,
Craig

[Image: http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y520/scherzoja/electrical/BatteryRewire_zpsa977c69a.jpg ]

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Hey, Craig, could you please attach the drawing? I can’t see photobucket
images (security reasons).

Thanks,

Bob

On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 10:03 PM, cbboat wrote:

Here is one less cluttered.
Sleep well, talk to you tomorrow.

Craig

[Image:
http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y520/scherzoja/electrical/BatteryRewire2_zps5c2d3726.jpg%5D

http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y520/scherzoja/electrical/BatteryRewire2_zps5c2d3726.jpg

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s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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Craig,
I don’t see any problems with your plan. It is similar to my configuration
except I use 3 on/off switches in place of the1/2/Both and On/OIff switches
in your diagram and an ACR rather than an Echo Charger. I plan to replace
the ACR with an Echo or Duo Charger this year.
One recommendation is to put a 1/2/Both switch between your two banks of 6v
batteries. That way if one battery in one of the banks fails you can
isolate that bank and run your house loads on the good bank. You can do
the same thing by disconnecting the bank, but it is much easier to just
turn a switch, especially when you are trouble shooting to find the bad
bank. I just spent the winter in the Abacos with a bad battery (new Deka
from West Marine), and I was glad I had that switch.
With the Echo Charger feeding the Start bank, the feed from the AC Battery
Charger is probably redundant and may interfere with the battery charger.
My Xantrex charger shuts down if it detects another charging voltage on any
of the attached battery banks. With your configuration the battery charger
may detect the Echo Charger as another charging source. Your battery
charger may not have the same issue and the Echo Charger may shut down if
it detects another charging source on the Start battery, so it may not be a
problem. I’ve just started looking into Echo/Duo chargers and have no
experience with them.

Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com
Sarah’s Blog

On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 9:21 PM, cbboat wrote:

Since my batteries are fried, I’ll redo the battery wiring when I replace
the batteries.

Here is a diagram of my plan and a few questions.

Existing equipment: AC powered charger, Group 27 start battery,
alternator, starter, On/Off and 1-both-2-off switches

Batteries will be four US Battery US2200 XC 6v batteries @ 232 AH.
Two of them wired in series, the two pair wired parallel to total of 464AH.
Here is the diagram.

1. Is this going to work?

2. What am I missing?

3. What meter do I need (current meter is analog volt meter). Will a
digital voltmeter connected to both banks suffice? I want to measure volts
coming out of alternator and I don’t know what I want to measure on the
house bank, any recommendations on amp/volt/AH meters?

4. I suppose I need to have some kind of meter on the start battery to
keep an eye on that. meter that shows the voltage of the starter battery?

5. When wiring alternator output directly to the house battery, does the
wire have to be wired directly to the battery’s positive terminal or can it
go through a bus bar, as shown in diagram? Same question for the echo
charger lead to the house bank. Dashed lines indicate input cable going
directly to the positive terminal, rather than through a bus bar.

The diagram is drawn in normal operating position, where the 1-both-2-off
switch is on 1, connecting house bank with DC panel and ON/Off set for On
so starter pulls from starter battery.

The diagram shows shunts for meters. If I have a volt meter connected to
the pos terminal, do I need a shunt? Should the voltmeter be connected to
the shunts?

The alternator is wired to house and echo charger sends excess to starter.
110volt battery charger connected directly to both banks (starter and
house).

If starter battery fails, I change the 1-both-2-Off switch to Both and use
house bank to start engine.

If house bank fails, I change to 2 and use start for house (hope I don’t
do that accidentally!).

Fuses: one on each positive battery cable, where else?

Thanks,
Craig

[Image:
http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y520/scherzoja/electrical/BatteryRewire_zpsa977c69a.jpg%5D

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My comments

You show a shunt in the ground return line from your batteries. This is marked as voltmeter shunt, but voltmeters don’t use shunts. You shouldn’t put a shunt of any kind in your battery ground line. It can cause problems with radio equipment.

What’s an echo charger?

If your 400A fuse blows while your engine is running, you’ll toast your alternator diodes. A zap-stop might be advised.
http://www.emarineinc.com/products/Balmar-TSP-12-Transient-Spike-Protector-Zap-Stop.html

Rich

Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

I’ve been using the Echo charger for a couple years now and am very pleased. I have 2: 1 charging the start battery, the other charging a windlass battery in the bow. Both of those batteries stay full charged and don’t require any switches or monitoring.

So I would second Craig’s comment re the charger connection to the start battery being redundant.

One additional thought is that I’ve read a number of reports about 1-2-both-off switches failing. So I ‘switched’ to all on-off switches. 1 for the house, 1 for the start battery, and 1 to cross connect them. The cross-connect is situated so I can either start the engine from the house, or power the house from the start battery (very unlikely).

I opted for the Victron monitor. So far am very happy with it. Although Compass Marine has just done some tests on some less expensive alternatives that might be worth considering.

couple other nits to consider:

– circuit protection on the echo charger (15A)
– connect the 40A charger to the positive bus bar to reduce connections to the batteries
– circuit protection between alternator and bus bar
– circuit protection between bus bar and DC panel

I have a schematic of our system if you’d like – email if you’d like it greg@paperbird.us.

Also make buss vars larger. You may wish to add solar, wind sources. Also some devices work better when connected to buss bar rather than dc panel ie. SSB or refer. Still fused but direct connections.
Alan
Unabated

Sent from my iPhone

On May 7, 2014, at 9:16 AM, “Paperbird” wrote:

I’ve been using the Echo charger for a couple years now and am very pleased. I have 2: 1 charging the start battery, the other charging a windlass battery in the bow. Both of those batteries stay full charged and don’t require any switches or monitoring.

So I would second Craig’s comment re the charger connection to the start battery being redundant.

One additional thought is that I’ve read a number of reports about 1-2-both-off switches failing. So I ‘switched’ to all on-off switches. 1 for the house, 1 for the start battery, and 1 to cross connect them. The cross-connect is situated so I can either start the engine from the house, or power the house from the start battery (very unlikely).

I opted for the Victron monitor. So far am very happy with it. Although Compass Marine has just done some tests on some less expensive alternatives that might be worth considering.

couple other nits to consider:

– circuit protection on the echo charger (15A)
– connect the 40A charger to the positive bus bar to reduce connections to the batteries
– circuit protection between alternator and bus bar
– circuit protection between bus bar and DC panel

I have a schematic of our system if you’d like – email if you’d like it .

---

S/V Paperbird
But if not…

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all.. please send me offline all your schematics for your electrical
systems and pictures if you like. i’ll put together a composite for the
website.

– pat

Alan wrote, On 5/7/14, 11:38 AM:

Also make buss vars larger. You may wish to add solar, wind sources. Also some devices work better when connected to buss bar rather than dc panel ie. SSB or refer. Still fused but direct connections.
Alan
Unabated

Sent from my iPhone

On May 7, 2014, at 9:16 AM, “Paperbird” wrote:

I’ve been using the Echo charger for a couple years now and am very pleased. I have 2: 1 charging the start battery, the other charging a windlass battery in the bow. Both of those batteries stay full charged and don’t require any switches or monitoring.

So I would second Craig’s comment re the charger connection to the start battery being redundant.

One additional thought is that I’ve read a number of reports about 1-2-both-off switches failing. So I ‘switched’ to all on-off switches. 1 for the house, 1 for the start battery, and 1 to cross connect them. The cross-connect is situated so I can either start the engine from the house, or power the house from the start battery (very unlikely).

I opted for the Victron monitor. So far am very happy with it. Although Compass Marine has just done some tests on some less expensive alternatives that might be worth considering.

couple other nits to consider:

– circuit protection on the echo charger (15A)
– connect the 40A charger to the positive bus bar to reduce connections to the batteries
– circuit protection between alternator and bus bar
– circuit protection between bus bar and DC panel

I have a schematic of our system if you’d like – email if you’d like it .

---

S/V Paperbird
But if not…

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my address:

pat noordsij wrote, On 5/7/14, 11:59 AM:

all.. please send me offline all your schematics for your electrical
systems and pictures if you like. i’ll put together a composite for
the website.

– pat

Alan wrote, On 5/7/14, 11:38 AM:

Also make buss vars larger. You may wish to add solar, wind sources.
Also some devices work better when connected to buss bar rather than
dc panel ie. SSB or refer. Still fused but direct connections.
Alan
Unabated

Sent from my iPhone

On May 7, 2014, at 9:16 AM, “Paperbird” wrote:

I’ve been using the Echo charger for a couple years now and am very
pleased. I have 2: 1 charging the start battery, the other charging
a windlass battery in the bow. Both of those batteries stay full
charged and don’t require any switches or monitoring.

So I would second Craig’s comment re the charger connection to the
start battery being redundant.

One additional thought is that I’ve read a number of reports about
1-2-both-off switches failing. So I ‘switched’ to all on-off
switches. 1 for the house, 1 for the start battery, and 1 to cross
connect them. The cross-connect is situated so I can either start
the engine from the house, or power the house from the start battery
(very unlikely).

I opted for the Victron monitor. So far am very happy with it.
Although Compass Marine has just done some tests on some less
expensive alternatives that might be worth considering.

couple other nits to consider:

– circuit protection on the echo charger (15A)
– connect the 40A charger to the positive bus bar to reduce
connections to the batteries
– circuit protection between alternator and bus bar
– circuit protection between bus bar and DC panel

I have a schematic of our system if you’d like – email if you’d like
it .

---

S/V Paperbird
But if not…

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My understanding of the Echo (Xantrex) and Duo (Balmer) chargers is that
they are a battery to battery switch. They are connected between a source
battery and a destination battery. When the charger detects a charging
voltage (e.g., 13.3v) on the source the switch closes and allows a moderate
(e.g., 15A) charging current to the destination. They are one-way
switches Current cannot flow from the destination to the source.
I have a battery combiner (Blue Sea ACR) that works similarly, but it
connects a charging source (alternator) to two batteries. Initially only
one battery is connected to the charging source until that battery voltage
reaches 13.3v then the second the battery is added to the charging
circuit. The batteries are combined into one large battery for charging.
When the charging stops the switch opens and the batteries are again
isolated.
Most the marine electricians and installers seem to prefer the Echo/Duo
Charger solution.

Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com
Sarah’s Blog

On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 6:56 PM, cbboat wrote:

Rich,

Echo charger splits off the incoming charge to the batteries that need it.
Don’t know how it works, PFM maybe!

http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/power-accessories/auxiliary-battery-charger.aspx

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