Shucks Dave… I donated a full set to the Boy Scouts. Right here on
the Space Coast. Are you going to keep it somewhere other than a yard
(which would have stands)? Sorry but I don’t remember the size specs.

Pete

On 5/29/2014 8:53 PM, Dave Rhodes wrote:

I’m considering purchase of #19 (Bead Game) from a salvage yard post hurricane sandy. Any idea which size boat stands I’m going to have to assemble while in the yard?
Dave Rhodes
Merritt Island, FL

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I use seven jack-stands. One under the bow and three along each side. The two aft stands need to be long, extending about 6′ to the hull. The other 4 extend about 5′ to the hull. Chains link between pairs of course. I put wood pads under the feet.

I block the keel under the forward half of the keel. I also block the rudder skeg.

Rich

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do consider the refurbish costs… there is also a p 424 on the west
coast listed at a *very* good price.

– pat
Dave Rhodes wrote, On 5/29/14, 7:53 PM:

I’m considering purchase of #19 (Bead Game) from a salvage yard post hurricane sandy. Any idea which size boat stands I’m going to have to assemble while in the yard?
Dave Rhodes
Merritt Island, FL

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In my experience, the only way one can justify
refurbishing old boats like ours is as a labor of love.
If you won’t truly enjoy the process, the moment to
moment “doing” of it, don’t do it. Even if I were to
value my skilled labor at $.01/hour, I could never
recoup what I’ve got into Silverheels in time and
materials. As it is, however, I am repaid daily, even
when we’re in the boat yard and I’m hot & tired and the
damned 35-year-old bolt refuses to budge.

Tor

I’d imagine you can get away with six of the 54″ to 79″ range from Brownell. and one v-top for the bow. You might want an extra on each side if your somewhere out and exposed. Make sure you chain them and if needed place wood under the stand in soft soil. Also for the first week or so back off (loosen the screws) the stands and re-set until the boat is fully settled on it’s blocking.
As long as you know what your getting into with a salvaged boat….I say go for it. But like Thor says you need lots and lots of time and really do have to LOVE working on the boat not to mention freely opening the wallet.

Ken

I second that! in spades… but the delight now of sailing her is
priceless not to mention the compliments of passersby in the marina.
(you can see my restoration articles here: http://www.dublerfamily.com)

By the way, when you put the boat in stands, be sure you understand
where there is and is not support in the keel. Blocking at the back of
the keel will crack the hull. There is plenty of discussion on this in
the archives of the Pearson 424 group.

Good luck,
Pete

On 5/30/2014 9:59 AM, Silverheels wrote:

I’m not sure what you mean Pete by NOT blocking at the back of the keel, I
just recently spent 3 very hard weeks of my life grinding and re-glassing
upside down under the boat and crouched down deep in the very skinny bilges
adding layers of glass repairing the keel of my boat because they didn’t
block the back and the front, they blocked the front (lead) and the middle
of the hollow part, thus breaking, the bottom of my boat This is where a
forum like this can create problems. Describing the particulars of things
gets very distorted from one owner to the other…..in words! Everyone
describes things a little differently and to be honest, I get very confused
here by so many different descriptions. I wish I could draw a picture of
what “I” dealt with and how “I” determined it happened. I would tell
someone MAKE SURE you block the front and back of the keel, not anywhere in
the “soft-spot” for lack of a better word.
During my intensive rebuild and repair of the keel, I felt the back or
very skinny end was sufficiently robust enough to support not ALL of the
weight but certainly an equal amount without breaking anything. I
understand the viewpoint of the crane operator not wanting to block to far
aft on that skinny little thing, as my crane operator whined, but a foot
forward of the end is quite enough to support the boat along with the lead
forward. No designer in his right mind would design a boat ANY other way.
MHO.

Ken

On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 5:21 PM, Pete Dubler wrote:

On the 424, block the aft end of the keel and within the first 2 feet of
the front. Other than that, you’re asking for some serious repairs.

Bob

On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 6:41 PM, Ken Page wrote:

I’m not sure what you mean Pete by NOT blocking at the back of the keel, I
just recently spent 3 very hard weeks of my life grinding and re-glassing
upside down under the boat and crouched down deep in the very skinny bilges
adding layers of glass repairing the keel of my boat because they didn’t
block the back and the front, they blocked the front (lead) and the middle
of the hollow part, thus breaking, the bottom of my boat This is where a
forum like this can create problems. Describing the particulars of things
gets very distorted from one owner to the other…..in words! Everyone
describes things a little differently and to be honest, I get very confused
here by so many different descriptions. I wish I could draw a picture of
what “I” dealt with and how “I” determined it happened. I would tell
someone MAKE SURE you block the front and back of the keel, not anywhere in
the “soft-spot” for lack of a better word.
During my intensive rebuild and repair of the keel, I felt the back or
very skinny end was sufficiently robust enough to support not ALL of the
weight but certainly an equal amount without breaking anything. I
understand the viewpoint of the crane operator not wanting to block to far
aft on that skinny little thing, as my crane operator whined, but a foot
forward of the end is quite enough to support the boat along with the lead
forward. No designer in his right mind would design a boat ANY other way.
MHO.

Ken

On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 5:21 PM, Pete Dubler
wrote:

I second that! in spades… but the delight now of sailing her is
priceless not to mention the compliments of passersby in the marina.

(you

can see my restoration articles here: http://www.dublerfamily.com)

By the way, when you put the boat in stands, be sure you understand where
there is and is not support in the keel. Blocking at the back of the

keel

will crack the hull. There is plenty of discussion on this in the

archives

That’s right Bob….that was the introduction of my first haul-out with my
424…….serious repairs.
Ken

On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 7:07 PM, Robert Fine wrote:

On the 424, block the aft end of the keel and within the first 2 feet of
the front. Other than that, you’re asking for some serious repairs.

Bob

On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 6:41 PM, Ken Page wrote:

I’m not sure what you mean Pete by NOT blocking at the back of the keel,

I

just recently spent 3 very hard weeks of my life grinding and re-glassing
upside down under the boat and crouched down deep in the very skinny

bilges

adding layers of glass repairing the keel of my boat because they didn’t
block the back and the front, they blocked the front (lead) and the

middle

of the hollow part, thus breaking, the bottom of my boat This is where a
forum like this can create problems. Describing the particulars of things
gets very distorted from one owner to the other…..in words! Everyone
describes things a little differently and to be honest, I get very

confused

here by so many different descriptions. I wish I could draw a picture of
what “I” dealt with and how “I” determined it happened. I would tell
someone MAKE SURE you block the front and back of the keel, not anywhere

in

the “soft-spot” for lack of a better word.
During my intensive rebuild and repair of the keel, I felt the back or
very skinny end was sufficiently robust enough to support not ALL of the
weight but certainly an equal amount without breaking anything. I
understand the viewpoint of the crane operator not wanting to block to

far

aft on that skinny little thing, as my crane operator whined, but a foot
forward of the end is quite enough to support the boat along with the

lead

forward. No designer in his right mind would design a boat ANY other way.
MHO.

Ken

On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 5:21 PM, Pete Dubler
wrote:

I second that! in spades… but the delight now of sailing her is
priceless not to mention the compliments of passersby in the marina.

(you

can see my restoration articles here: http://www.dublerfamily.com)

By the way, when you put the boat in stands, be sure you understand

where

there is and is not support in the keel. Blocking at the back of the

keel

will crack the hull. There is plenty of discussion on this in the

archives

I’ve done that repair twice – this time was the last time. You could
balance the whole boat on the keel now and nothing would happen.

Bob

On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 7:20 PM, Ken Page wrote:

That’s right Bob….that was the introduction of my first haul-out with my
424…….serious repairs.
Ken

On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 7:07 PM, Robert Fine wrote:

On the 424, block the aft end of the keel and within the first 2 feet of
the front. Other than that, you’re asking for some serious repairs.

Bob

On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 6:41 PM, Ken Page wrote:

I’m not sure what you mean Pete by NOT blocking at the back of the

keel,

I

just recently spent 3 very hard weeks of my life grinding and

re-glassing

upside down under the boat and crouched down deep in the very skinny

bilges

adding layers of glass repairing the keel of my boat because they

didn’t

block the back and the front, they blocked the front (lead) and the

middle

of the hollow part, thus breaking, the bottom of my boat This is where

a

forum like this can create problems. Describing the particulars of

things

gets very distorted from one owner to the other…..in words! Everyone
describes things a little differently and to be honest, I get very

confused

here by so many different descriptions. I wish I could draw a picture

of

what “I” dealt with and how “I” determined it happened. I would tell
someone MAKE SURE you block the front and back of the keel, not

anywhere

in

the “soft-spot” for lack of a better word.
During my intensive rebuild and repair of the keel, I felt the back or
very skinny end was sufficiently robust enough to support not ALL of

the

weight but certainly an equal amount without breaking anything. I
understand the viewpoint of the crane operator not wanting to block to

far

aft on that skinny little thing, as my crane operator whined, but a

foot

forward of the end is quite enough to support the boat along with the

lead

forward. No designer in his right mind would design a boat ANY other

way.

MHO.

Ken

On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 5:21 PM, Pete Dubler
wrote:

I second that! in spades… but the delight now of sailing her is
priceless not to mention the compliments of passersby in the marina.

(you

can see my restoration articles here: http://www.dublerfamily.com)

By the way, when you put the boat in stands, be sure you understand

where

there is and is not support in the keel. Blocking at the back of the

keel

will crack the hull. There is plenty of discussion on this in the

archives

No designer in his right mind would design a boat ANY

other way.

The “right mind” of the 424’s designer/builder is a
subject for much debate. They did any number of things
that, with 20/20 hindsight, could and should have been
done better. Overall these are good boats – certainly
they’re a lot of bang for the buck – but like many
yacht designs they have their shortcomings and
idiosyncrasies. Those of us who have substantially
reinforced the skinny layup beneath the deep sump can
now block up our boats with less exactness. Those who
have not need to be aware of the weak area between the
internal lead and the extreme after end of the keel,
and avoid putting any weight on a block there.

I learned of this the hard way, returning from a year
of sometimes-offshore voyaging to discover a long,
frighteningly deep crack in the fiberglass in that area
– barely millimeters remaining between me and the deep
blue sea. If you learned about this on the hard, count
your blessings. Fix it and move on.

Tor

I know Tor, I am very grateful that this ‘weakspot’ came to light when it did. The work was hard but to me, a blessing in disguise to find it. I will no doubt add more glass (west) and matte to the inside (I only added three on the inside) next major haul out. When painting the bilge we purposefully left the bottom 3″ bare knowing I would add more later. I too want to never worry about where a yard blocks my boat!
My point about the design, as drawn and built, was that as long as the keel was blocked front and back, never in the middle, there would never be issue with cracks as you had and so many other 424’s have experienced. My guess would be that over the years every one of these boats has been set down improperly at some point in it’s life by crane operator and crew. It’s just too easy to assume from the outside of the hull that the whole bottom of the keel is solid. Why wouldn’t it be, you’d think!

Ken

Wow! Just hauled out last March for a bottom job. These comments made me check my photos to see how she was blocked under the keel. The boys at Keehi Marine know their stuff as she was blocked fore and aft.

When I had her hauled for the purchase survey, they cared enough to send a snorkeler under to check sling placement. While out, they took pix of the bottom as reference for the next haul out. Great service.

Dan Kalinowski
Jolly Lama #135
Keehi Lagoon, O’ahu

Dan,

I keep a few printouts of the attached line drawing in
my nav table and hand one to the lift operator prior to
each haul-out. With this the strap placement is a
no-brainer, no diver necessary.

Tor