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Typical Pearson problem, I have a number of deck leaks I’m dealing with. Most pretty straight forward, just tedious but have run into a problem with the staysail track.
The bolts go through the track into a hollow area running the length of the track so the bolts are exposed for about 1″ before passing through the deck.
I want to bed the track to seal the tops of the holes but there is no easy way to do so.
Has anyone dealt with this before? Any ideas?
So far my best plan is to fill the whole hollow with some kind of goop (4200?, 5200? other?) so the bolts are sealed in caulk from deck to track.
Thanks
Skip -
If you know the track is leaking why not just unbolt it, clean up the
bolts, track and deck then lay a new bead down under the track, assemble
and be done. Jobs like this tend to be easier than most think once the
bolts are exposed.On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:26 PM, skipmac via maillist <
> wrote:Typical Pearson problem, I have a number of deck leaks I’m dealing with.
Most pretty straight forward, just tedious but have run into a problem
with the staysail track.The bolts go through the track into a hollow area running the length of
the track so the bolts are exposed for about 1″ before passing through the
deck.I want to bed the track to seal the tops of the holes but there is no easy
way to do so.Has anyone dealt with this before? Any ideas?
So far my best plan is to fill the whole hollow with some kind of goop
(4200?, 5200? other?) so the bolts are sealed in caulk from deck to track.Thanks
Skip_______________________________________________
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Skip,
I don’t have that track on Silverheels, but if I’m picturing your
description correctly I do have a couple of ideas:Using fully threaded bolts, put them through the track as usual
and then screw on a nut most of the way up followed by a broad,
snug-fitting washer. Then mount the track as usual, securing all
the bolt washers or backing plates and their nuts beneath the
deck. Once it’s securely mounted, squirt a blob of bedding
compound onto each shank outside at deck level and tighten down
those upper nuts, but not so tight that they squeeze out all the
bedding. Just enough to press the washer snuggly onto the bedding
and form a seal. I just made that up, but it seems like it would
work.And in case it doesn’t work perfectly forever, while the track is
off drill out the mounting holes a size or two larger, put pieces
of tape over the bottoms, fill them all with epoxy and, once dry,
re-drill the holes to the correct size. Forever after, if/when a
bolt does leak at least the water won’t get into the balsa core
and rot it.Have fun,
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Skip, could you send a picture of your staysail track? I’ve been
wondering about the best way to control the thing.Bob
On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 6:11 AM, Silverheels via maillist <
> wrote:Quote:Skip,I don’t have that track on Silverheels, but if I’m picturing your
description correctly I do have a couple of ideas:Using fully threaded bolts, put them through the track as usual
and then screw on a nut most of the way up followed by a broad,
snug-fitting washer. Then mount the track as usual, securing all
the bolt washers or backing plates and their nuts beneath the
deck. Once it’s securely mounted, squirt a blob of bedding
compound onto each shank outside at deck level and tighten down
those upper nuts, but not so tight that they squeeze out all the
bedding. Just enough to press the washer snuggly onto the bedding
and form a seal. I just made that up, but it seems like it would
work.And in case it doesn’t work perfectly forever, while the track is
off drill out the mounting holes a size or two larger, put pieces
of tape over the bottoms, fill them all with epoxy and, once dry,
re-drill the holes to the correct size. Forever after, if/when a
bolt does leak at least the water won’t get into the balsa core
and rot it.Have fun,
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Skip,
I saw your cross-section diagram on the CF and understand the problem. Is
there a reason you just don’t replace the track with one that doesn’t have
the hollow space? Sounds like a good time to do so.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com
Sarah’s BlogOn Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 7:45 AM, Robert Fine via maillist <
> wrote:Quote:Skip, could you send a picture of your staysail track? I’ve been
wondering about the best way to control the thing.Bob
On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 6:11 AM, Silverheels via maillist <
> wrote:Quote:Skip,I don’t have that track on Silverheels, but if I’m picturing your
description correctly I do have a couple of ideas:Using fully threaded bolts, put them through the track as usual
and then screw on a nut most of the way up followed by a broad,
snug-fitting washer. Then mount the track as usual, securing all
the bolt washers or backing plates and their nuts beneath the
deck. Once it’s securely mounted, squirt a blob of bedding
compound onto each shank outside at deck level and tighten down
those upper nuts, but not so tight that they squeeze out all the
bedding. Just enough to press the washer snuggly onto the bedding
and form a seal. I just made that up, but it seems like it would
work.And in case it doesn’t work perfectly forever, while the track is
off drill out the mounting holes a size or two larger, put pieces
of tape over the bottoms, fill them all with epoxy and, once dry,
re-drill the holes to the correct size. Forever after, if/when a
bolt does leak at least the water won’t get into the balsa core
and rot it.Have fun,
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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@Ken Page via maillist wrote:
If you know the track is leaking why not just unbolt it, clean up the
bolts, track and deck then lay a new bead down under the track, assemble
and be done. Jobs like this tend to be easier than most think once the
bolts are exposed.Hi Ken,
My description was a bit fuzzy and I tried but failed to upload a diagram.
Did remove the track, overdrilled the holes in the deck, dried out a couple that had leaked into the wood core, refilled all the holes with expoxy then redrilled the holes for the track but each now surrounded by epoxy so any future leaks will not wet the wood core.
But when I went to reinstall the track the bottom I discovered the bottom of the track isn’t flat but if you look at it end on, there is a channel down the middle of the bottom end to end. So again, end on it has a flat area on each side to sit on the deck but in the middle where the bolts pass through is open. Shaped kind of like this.
[_/_]
So the bolts come down through the middle of the inverted V area open for about 1″. So a bead under the flat areas on either side would bed the track but would not be over the holes. I could put a bead around the holes but pushing the bolt through the track into the holes will be blind and I will have no idea if the caulk is all pushed aside, left with gaps to leak into my overhead or what.
Tried to think of an easy way to put something around the exposed section of the bolt that would hold a washer flush to the bottom of the track that would then press down against the hole and the butyl tape I would like to use. So far every idea for that solution I’ve thought about have potential issues.
1. Various ways to install a washer onto the bolts so the washer is held flush with the bottom of the track and the washer can then cap off the deck holes and whatever goop I use to seal.
Problem, the deck is cambered and the holes in the track and matching holes through the deck are perpendicular to the track at each point. So would be very difficult to preinstall the bolts and then push the whole assembly into the deck holes.
2. Fill the slot with epoxy flush to the bottom of the track then redrill the bolt holes.
Problem, Pearson partially filled the slot with something (5200 maybe) which I have tried to remove but so far have spent a lot of time to remove a little of the caulk. If I try to fill with epoxy will it stick to whatever remaining caulk is in the slot?
3. The only idea I have so far is to fill the whole slot with a compatible goop (maybe one of the few places on the boat I would use 5200 or would 4200 work?) so the the deck holes are sealed off all the way inside that slot.
Problems? Can’t think of any serious ones yet. Any comments on this idea?
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Hi Tor,
Previous post I think addressed most of your suggestions like the epoxy fill in the holes. Doing that, one by one with all the deck fittings.
One problem with the washer idea is once the track is on the deck the bolt shaft will be hidden under the track and inaccessible. #@@!@$#^%%$!!!! Plus the alignment of the bolts that will be angled.
@Robert Fine via maillist wrote:
Skip, could you send a picture of your staysail track? I’ve been
wondering about the best way to control the thing.Bob
On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 6:11 AM, Silverheels via maillist <
> wrote:Skip,
I don’t have that track on Silverheels, but if I’m picturing your
description correctly I do have a couple of ideas:Using fully threaded bolts, put them through the track as usual
and then screw on a nut most of the way up followed by a broad,
snug-fitting washer. Then mount the track as usual, securing all
the bolt washers or backing plates and their nuts beneath the
deck. Once it’s securely mounted, squirt a blob of bedding
compound onto each shank outside at deck level and tighten down
those upper nuts, but not so tight that they squeeze out all the
bedding. Just enough to press the washer snuggly onto the bedding
and form a seal. I just made that up, but it seems like it would
work.And in case it doesn’t work perfectly forever, while the track is
off drill out the mounting holes a size or two larger, put pieces
of tape over the bottoms, fill them all with epoxy and, once dry,
re-drill the holes to the correct size. Forever after, if/when a
bolt does leak at least the water won’t get into the balsa core
and rot it.Have fun,
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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@Robert Fine via maillist wrote:
Skip, could you send a picture of your staysail track? I’ve been
wondering about the best way to control the thing.Bob
Hi Bob,
Will try to remember to take a picture of the setup when I’m out on the boat this afternoon. Fairly simple setup. The track looks about like the track for the mainsheet, installed in front of the mast but curved to fit the camber of the cabin top.
There’s also a little pedestal mounted by the staysail stay to to mount the staysail boom. Do you have that or any of this?
Skip
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@John Stevenson via mai… wrote:
Skip,
I saw your cross-section diagram on the CF and understand the problem. Is
there a reason you just don’t replace the track with one that doesn’t have
the hollow space? Sounds like a good time to do so.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com
Sarah’s BlogHi John,
That thought did occur to me but
1. Would have to order the track and wait for it, plus would have to be curved just right to fit the deck camber.
2. Except for this stupid slot in the track it is in good shape, works fine, holes are drilled in the deck to match.
3. I’m cheap and hate to spend money for something I think I can make work.
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Hey Skip,
I misunderstood the setup. We need photos so we can see what
you’re dealing with. Then we might be able to help with
suggestions that actually apply. I think I have another idea
that’ll work, but I have to see what we’re working with first.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Skip, sounds like your almost there. Have you put a good 1/8″ countersink at all the holes on deck? This will create a washer like effect of goop around the bolt as you tighten it all down. I’d imagine if you lay a very generous bead or strip of butyl under the track and manage to get all the bolts in before you really tighten anything down, the final pressure of tightening should force caulking anywhere and everywhere around those bolts, even up into the hollow spot. That might be what your seeing in the hollow from the original installation. Epoxy more than likely will NOT stick to anything that is left in that hollow. Maybe if you could get a little drill or dremel to clean to shiny aluminum on both sides of each hole you could get something to stick. Also, sometimes it’s way more productive to not over-think a job too.
Good luck,
where are you by the way, I’ll be making a trip up the Florida coast in a couple of weeks.Ken
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Here’s the drawing of the track cross-section that Skip posted on the CF in
case anyone is still trying to picture the problem.
Understand why a replacement track has lots of issues.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com
Sarah’s BlogOn Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 10:09 AM, Page Two via maillist <
> wrote:Skip, sounds like your almost there. Have you put a good 1/8″ countersink
at all the holes on deck? This will create a washer like effect of goop
around the bolt as you tighten it all down. I’d imagine if you lay a very
generous bead or strip of butyl under the track and manage to get all the
bolts in before you really tighten anything down, the final pressure of
tightening should force caulking anywhere and everywhere around those
bolts, even up into the hollow spot. That might be what your seeing in the
hollow from the original installation. Epoxy more than likely will NOT
stick to anything that is left in that hollow. Maybe if you could get a
little drill or dremel to clean to shiny aluminum on both sides of each
hole you could get something to stick. Also, sometimes it’s way more
productive to not over-think a job too.
Good luck,
where are you by the way, I’ll be making a trip up the Florida coast in a
couple of weeks.Ken
Ken and Vicky # 91……Writing a New Chapter Page by Page in an Old Book._______________________________________________
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OK. Trying to upload a diagram and failing. I have done it before so can’t be me. 😆
I have tried to upload images in .pdf and .jpeg formats and keep getting this message.
Sorry, but the maximum filesize for all Attachments is reached. Please contact the Board Administrator if you have questions.
Maybe something to do with the new site? I go to the Pearson424 home page, select “Forums/Lists” and try the first selection “Forums” which gives me the new forum page but that list doesn’t know me and I can’t log in. So next try “BB2 Forum (archival) which lets me log in but I get the above error message when I try to upload any file.
????????
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Skip,
If your track is designed the way your sketch makes it appear, no
wonder you can’t bed the bolts. What a crappy design! If you
don’t want to replace the track, how about filling that entire
slot with thickened epoxy or JB Weld? Then, when the filler is
dry, re-drill from the top for the bolts, bed and mount.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Skip,
I saw the sketch. Clean the whole slot out one end to the other on the whole track. CLEAN. I would not use buytle here unless you get it in a tube. I’d fill the slot about 80% between the bolts and really full in the area of the bolts with your goop of choice. Sikaflex291, 3M4200, Boatlife polysulfide. If it takes two tubes … so what! Fill it up. Lay it in place and put the bolts in every hole just enough to keep the goo from getting up the holes and making too much a mess (you will anyways) at the bolt heads. You might be able to keep the mess at a minimum. Try and wiggle them all down through the hull at the same time. Make sure your READY with solvents, putty knives, pallets (small square 1/8″thick pieces of plywood about 8″ by 8″ to scrape your putty knife clean) and go for it. Mask the sides of the track and the deck too.
You are having some fun now!Ken
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Re: Rebedding the staysail track
Author:
OK.  I;m updated to the new forum so let’s see if I can upload my diagram.
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Re: Rebedding the staysail track
Author:
Oh, yes Ken.  I’m having some fun.
Here’s the three options that seem best at this point based on various suggestions or combinations.
1. Fill the entire slot with epoxy flush with the bottom of the track, redrill the holes for the bolts.
Positives
– Will seal well
– Permanent
Negatives
– very, very time consuming to completely clean the old caulk out to get a good bond.
– holes for the pins in the stops on the track will be sealed so constantly full of water, dirt, etc.
2. Fill the entire slot with caulk (4200?  5200?)  I am leanging towards the demon 5200 because I can buy it locally and won’t have to mail order and wait a week.
Positives
– same as #1 plus
– also would not have to completely clean all the old caulk to get a good bond
Negatives
– messy, would want to tape the deck all around the track.
– Same problem with the pin holes
3. Use a Forstner bit on the deck to make a depression around each hole large enough to hold a good sized SS fender washer.  The washer would be wide enought so when the track is bolted down the sides next to the slot would push down on the edges of the washer which would, then capture the chosen goop around the top of the hole in the deck.  NOTE.  I already countersunk the holes in the deck to make a spot to hold caulk.
Positives
– same as 1 and 2 plus
– easier to remove than 2 if I have to repair or replace the track
– Leaves space for the pin holes to drain
Negatives
– Can’t think of any major negatives.
ÂÂ
So currently leaning towards #3.
ÂÂ
ÂÂ
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Re: Rebedding the staysail track
Author:
Hi John,
Thanks for posting the drawing.  Saw it after I finally figured out the new forum.
ÂÂ
Tor,
Initially I thought the same, whate a dumbass design but then a friend pointed out the slot in the bottom of the track allows the pin holes (that catch the springloaded pin that locks in the sliding stop cars on the track) to drain through and keeps dirt from filling up the holes.  It does looks like it was extra work to cut that slot so must have been a reason but surely there would be a better way to do it.
Now after all this I will have to look more closely at the main track.
So anyone else with a cutter rig?  Do you have the same kind of track?
ÂÂ
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I know it’s tough to see the job from here, but what has the pin holes being clogged(?) got to do with anything? Most tracks have pin holes that have bottoms and they stay reasonably clean just as they are.
Cleaning the bottom of the track and slot should not be any more time consuming than all the trouble you have to go with to re-drill and epoxy the deck. You just need the right tool … and that, you have to find out for yourself. A dull chisel? a sharp (or dullish) pocket knife held at the right angle? Whatever you can get to work. Then, maybe wire wheel to finish clean? JMHO Cleaning out that slot whatever it may be (can’t see it from here) should NOT be looked at as too much time. Adding washers to the base sounds …. ( I must be careful here) … very unprofessional. If the track needed washers, something similar would of been there. How long did the track last before “you” needed to repair? Over-kill and over-design are two different things.
Just sayin’,Ken
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