James,

I doubt whether it matters a whole lot which rig you have on a
Pearson 424. They’re likely to perform similarly. As for the
“small” mizzen, it’s more useful than you think:
http://www.tor.cc/articles/mizzen.htm .

Does the mast need to be moved aft to properly balance the rig?

Based on my experience sailing my ketch with and without the
mizzen set, no, you won’t need to move the mast step if you scrap
the mizzen mast entirely.

OR was extending the boom enough?

Sail your boat first, then decide if you need to extend the boom.
It may save you a lot of unnecessary work.

If you own a sloop/cutter rig, have you found any REAL value in

a backstay tensioner?

One of our forum members races his sloop-rigged 424 and says his
backstay tensioner enables his boat to point much higher. I
believe him.

Several p424’s I’ve looked at have a 40-50hp Westerbeke in them

– is that engine truly powerful enough to push the boat at
hullspeed without being at OPEN throttle?

My boat has 54 hp and I find it’s more than enough. I can’t speak
for 40 hp from direct experience, but I suspect it could be a bit
light in some situations.

The Pearson 424 is a lot of boat for the money; good overall
sailing characteristics, decent construction, great layout.
They’re old, though. Most need a lot of re-conditioning and
upgrading. If you enjoy doing that kind of work on your boat,
then you may love owning a 424.

Good luck,

Tor

Re: Cutter/Sloop VS Ketch

Author:

Tor:  Thanks for “The Amazing Mizzen” article (just found it).  Never too old to learn new tactics!

 I sailed a sloop for 25 years before we bought our 424 ketch.  It would be hard to go back to one stick.  There’s big wind in the channels between islands here and the ketch makes it easy!

 

Dan Kalinowski

Jolly Lama #135

Keehi Lagoon, O’ahu

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The original thread was back in May. I don’t remember responding to this. I must have missed it. I have a sloop, built in 1978. I’ve owned her since 1986. I’ve never sailed a ketch so I can’t really speak about the usefulness of the mizzen in this rig. Without the mizzen, the cockpit is open and easy to enclose. The backstay can have a tensioner added which improves sailing performance. I suppose that the mizzen might come in handy when the wind picks up. You could drop the main and just run with mizzen and headsail. For coastal cruising, I find it unnecessary to reef the main. I don’t even have my reef lines installed.

I’ve done about all I can do to get my sloop model to sail well. I wet-sand the bottom after putting on a new coat of bottom paint. I have a new set of sails including a 155% genoa. I added a hydrolic backstay tensioner. I have a cruising spinnaker. I race the boat with my club and do reasonably well. I’m in second place for the spring series and currently in the same position for the summer series. I can say that if properly equipped and sailed, the boat can point well and sail to her handicap of 186. This is not an impressive handicap. Most 30 footers including the Pearson-30 would get lower numbers. She was however built as a cruising boat and not a club racer. If Pearson had given more thought to performance she would probably sail about a minute-per-mile faster, covering a typical 60 mile cruising day-sail in perhaps 10 hours instead of 11. She would have had a bigger rig and would be more difficult for a small crew to handle however. I find that most of my coastal cruising is done with the engine on. If I get wind, it is invariably from the wrong direction. I cover the same 60 miles in about 8 1/2 hours, but if I were in a rush I would take my car.

The ketch comes in two models, the standard ketch and the tall ketch. Tall is not an adjective I’d use for the taller ketch. I suspect the shorter version was built to allow passage under certain bridges such as Key Largo and Okeechobee.

Except for the very last few boats built, the sloop and tall ketch are identical. The mizzen is missing in the sloop, but the chainplate bulkheads and cockpit sole reinforcing are there. In theory, you could have a rigger add the mizzen, though at great expense. I know of at least one ketch that had the mizzen removed because the owner found it of little use. He put a post in the cockpit where the mizzen once was, to be used as a foot-brace. I have a large drop-leaf cockpit table, the front legs of which perform the same function.

The cutter is the same as the sloop but has her mast a couple of feet further back and has therefore a bigger headsail. The later sloops had the same configuration. My sloop has the mast tang for the inner forestay.

My sloop came with a W-60 but has since been repowered. The W-60 was really only about 50 hp. It was adequate but would not drive the boat to hull speed. I could make about 6.8kts through the water on a flat-calm day. With a head-sea or significant head-wind, progress was less impressive. At full throttle, the engine was noisy and uncomfortable. I typically cruised at about 6.5 kts, 1800 RPM. This was still noisy and a bit uncomfortable but it was tolerable.

I now have a Yanmar-75. The boat will do approx 7.5 kts at a moderate throttle position (3000 RPM). At full speed (3800 RPM), she will squat and push a stern-wave up the back of the transom, doing about 7.8 kts. I typically cruise at about 2700..2800 RPM, approx 7.0 kts. This is a comfortable setting and consumes about 1 gal/hr. The 75 HP engine is a bit more than the 424 needs. The naturally aspirated 60 HP engine would probably do as well. Repowering is horrifically expensive, the engine being only a fraction of the total cost. I spent a bit more for the turbo and don’t regret it. I can run the engine at what feels like a fast-idle when cruising.

Under sail in the right conditions she will do about 7.8 kts, but 6.5 is more typical if I can get some wind and don’t have to point too high. Downwind is challenging. The cruising spinnaker helps significantly, but the helmsman needs to be attentive. Wind-and-wing is very difficult to hold. Broad-reaching at more than 120 deg causes the chute to collapse. Without the big headsail, you need a blow to get the boat to go downwind.

When I first bought the 424, she would not point. As I’ve said here and in earlier postings, she points now. I doubt you’ll get a ketch to point well, but with good sails she will probably be adequate. The ketch gets points for looking cool however. With a small rig, she needs a big headsail to perform in light winds (less than 15 kts). Sheeting in a big headsail is a bear however. I have Lewmar 48’s and they aren’t big enough. Larger winches are taller and the handle won’t clear the upper lifelines unless I raise them and of course come up with about $10K for new winches.

Reaching of course is where the boat shines.

Rich
BlackSheep #47

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I was specifically hunting for a ketch-rigged boat long before I decided to buy my 424. I figured this would be the biggest cruising sailboat I’ll own and possibly the last. Ease of handling her alone, even as I grow older, was an important consideration. A split rig with its relatively small mainsail met that requirement. You don’t buy these boats for their high performance, although they’re respectable in that regard. Spaciousness (especially in the cockpit!), stiffness, seakindliness (considering their moderate displacement), affordability, malleability; all contribute. Choice of rig is just one more plus. There’s no right or wrong, only preference.

Tor

Great observations, Rich, and you certainly have the longevity of experience to back them up.

One question: When your 50 hp engine would not get the boat to hull speed, did you experiment with prop pitch? I ask because when I first re-powered with my 54 hp Yanmar, I had the prop re-pitched simultaneously according to professional advice. Still, it wasn’t quite producing the performance I expected; was not able to achieve its rated maximum RPM. I checked it further with a borrowed external tachometer – I forget it’s correct name – which I temporarily rigged to the engine shaft to read RPM precisely while I noted the boat’s speeds at various RPM. As a result of that chart, the prop shop re-pitched my propeller again. It was originally 20LH13, was re-pitched to 20LH12 for the new engine, and then re-pitched for the final time to 20LH11. I’ve been very happy with the result and have no need for more horsepower.

Tor

I just completed my re power of Whiffler ftom a Westerbeke 63C to a 60 hp beta marine engine. I have an adjustable Max prop and i needed to increase the pitch on the prop from 16 inches to 22 inches to avoid over reving the engine. What a difference in shaft torque between the engines.

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