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Hi All,
Looking for some info on mast rake.
The rigging was replaced in 2012 and was like for like. We have since had the rig removed to internalise the halyards, sort the wiring etc and have another furler fitted.
The rigger set it up and added some mast rake which resulted in the backstays needing to be shortened.
I am not sure what he used as a basis for the mast rake, and thus the request for info. He needs to raise the furler, and at the same time adjust the backstays.
Hoping someone can provide info before the rigger makes irreversible changes.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated
Cheers
Dennis
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There is no mast rake required. Tensioning the backstay may be necessary,
but if you have a staysail, you should also have running bavkstays for
adjustment.Raking the mast aft tends to strengthen weather helm. Forward will
strengthen lee helm, which is bad.Tell the rigger to put it back the way it was and to shorten whichever stay
he installed that was too long.Bob
Pardon the brevity. I’m typing this on my phone and I hate typing on my
phone.
On Sep 21, 2014 3:56 PM, “Miss Kathleen via maillist” <
> wrote:Hi All,
Looking for some info on mast rake.
The rigging was replaced in 2012 and was like for like. We have since had
the rig removed to internalise the halyards, sort the wiring etc and have
another furler fitted.The rigger set it up and added some mast rake which resulted in the
backstays needing to be shortened.I am not sure what he used as a basis for the mast rake, and thus the
request for info. He needs to raise the furler, and at the same time adjust
the backstays.Hoping someone can provide info before the rigger makes irreversible
changes.Any advice would be greatly appreciated
Cheers
Dennis
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I agree with Bob 100% without even knowing all the peculiarities of
sailing these old girls …*Tell the rigger to put it back the way it was and to shorten whichever
stayhe installed that was too long.**Ken*
On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Robert Fine via maillist <
> wrote:There is no mast rake required. Tensioning the backstay may be necessary,
but if you have a staysail, you should also have running bavkstays for
adjustment.Raking the mast aft tends to strengthen weather helm. Forward will
strengthen lee helm, which is bad.Tell the rigger to put it back the way it was and to shorten whichever stay
he installed that was too long.Bob
Pardon the brevity. I’m typing this on my phone and I hate typing on my
phone.
On Sep 21, 2014 3:56 PM, “Miss Kathleen via maillist” <
> wrote:Hi All,
Looking for some info on mast rake.
The rigging was replaced in 2012 and was like for like. We have since had
the rig removed to internalise the halyards, sort the wiring etc and have
another furler fitted.The rigger set it up and added some mast rake which resulted in the
backstays needing to be shortened.I am not sure what he used as a basis for the mast rake, and thus the
request for info. He needs to raise the furler, and at the same timeadjust
the backstays.
Hoping someone can provide info before the rigger makes irreversible
changes.Any advice would be greatly appreciated
Cheers
Dennis
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
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Dennis,
I don’t know what the original specs call for, but generally
speaking the more you rake a mast, the more you move the sails’
center of effort aft. This will increase the weather helm. So it
seems logical that you would increase the rake only if you want
to increase the boat’s weather helm. When I re-rigged Silverheels
I endeavored to keep the mast’s plane pretty much as it was,
which is very nearly vertical (though I’ve never measured).
Hopefully, you’ll get more educated input than this, but maybe
it’s a start.Meanwhile, if your rigger can’t explain why he did what he did,
perhaps you would do well to consult another rigger. Raking a
mast arbitrarily may produce an undesirable effect.I’d be interested to hear what you ultimately figure out.
Good luck,
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Yeah, what Bob said.
Quote:
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Another vote for Bob.
Sent from my iPhone
Quote:On Sep 21, 2014, at 4:35 PM, Silverheels via maillist wrote:Yeah, what Bob said.
Quote:
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You shouldn’t have much ability to rake the mast. The keel stepped mast must exit the deck where the hole is, leaving little room for raking it. Even with a tensioner, the mast is difficult to bend. A bit of a rake might be made within the space provided by the wood wedges and you might get a bit of bend using the turnbuckles. I don’t think you’ll be able to rake it enough to change the boat balance. I tension the backstay with a hydrolic tensioner to pull the belly out of the headsail when the wind picks up. I get a bit of a bend in the mast, but not much. Bending the mast pulls the belly out of the main.
Rich
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Thanks all for the advice and info. Very much along with my thoughts.
I have running backstays on the mizzen, but never figured that would be able to adjust the mast by much.
Been in touch with the rigger and advised to leave it as it was.
Good point on the fact that the mast is keel stepped and with the hole in the deck there is not much chance of moving the mast by much, however, the rigger did replace the keel step as the old one was metal and badly corroded.
Thanks again.
Regards
Dennis
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It’s quite common for the mast step to corrode as well as the bottom inch or so of the mast. The step is on a small shelf in the bilge but water that enters the forward part of the bilge must run over this shelf and invariably gets the step wet. Water comes from the forepeak through the vent and depending on where you mount the water speed transducer may come from that during periodic cleaning. Water also comes down the inside of the mast when it rains. When the step corrodes, the metal expands as it undergoes a chemical reaction. This causes a clamping action on the base of the mast. It is not uncommon for a mast that is left in place for several years to refuse to be pulled from the step. If this happens, the only recourse is to cut off the base of the mast while it is in place. A crane needs to remove compression from the mast base so the cut can proceed. It’s not easy to make a clean cut when the mast is in place. It’s best to take action before things go bad.
For those of us who pull their masts at regular intervals, I suggest cleaning and coating the mast step and the lower end of the mast. I use whatever metal paint I have handy, e.g. rustoleum. Clean with a wire wheel on a drill. At some point, the step will need replacement. The lower inch of the mast may also suffer. The fix is to cut off the end of the mast and remove the old step and replace it with a new step. The step can be placed on a block to raise it by the amount cut off. I replaced mine about a year ago and sent out some info about the project. It was an easy fix, costing less than $100 to have a shop make a replacement. I cut off 1.5 inches from the base of the mast and raised it using a piece of pressure treated pine. Water that finds its way into the bilge doesn’t wet the base now since it’s raised. I no longer have an issue with corrosion. The step isn’t quite identical to what was removed. The steel rod that once attached to a welded flange on the base now attaches directly to the base plate. The base is screwed into the keel using lag-bolts. I replaced mine with stainless bolts that are 1.5 inches longer. It took only a few hours to do the replacement.
A complementary repair is to remove, clean, and rebed the mast collar. Inspect the deck around the opening for rot. It is not uncommon to find rot there due to water intrusion. It is difficult to keep the seal under the collar from leaking. The mast moves a bit when under sail which tends to break the bond. The aluminum collar tends to corrode and would be expensive to replace.
Rich
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Speaking of which… Regarding the big thick rubber mast collar, do
folks use wooden wedges in addition to that collar? I don’t have any
wooden wedges in there now as I frankly don’t see room for them.Thanks,
Pete
On 9/23/2014 8:53 AM, re.carter— via maillist wrote:
Quote:It’s quite common for the mast step to corrode as well as the bottom inch or so of the mast. The step is on a small shelf in the bilge but water that enters the forward part of the bilge must run over this shelf and invariably gets the step wet. Water comes from the forepeak through the vent and depending on where you mount the water speed transducer may come from that during periodic cleaning. Water also comes down the inside of the mast when it rains. When the step corrodes, the metal expands as it undergoes a chemical reaction. This causes a clamping action on the base of the mast. It is not uncommon for a mast that is left in place for several years to refuse to be pulled from the step. If this happens, the only recourse is to cut off the base of the mast while it is in place. A crane needs to remove compression from the mast base so the cut can proceed. It’s not easy to make a clean cut when the mast is in place. It’s best to take action before things go bad.For those of us who pull their masts at regular intervals, I suggest cleaning and coating the mast step and the lower end of the mast. I use whatever metal paint I have handy, e.g. rustoleum. Clean with a wire wheel on a drill. At some point, the step will need replacement. The lower inch of the mast may also suffer. The fix is to cut off the end of the mast and remove the old step and replace it with a new step. The step can be placed on a block to raise it by the amount cut off. I replaced mine about a year ago and sent out some info about the project. It was an easy fix, costing less than $100 to have a shop make a replacement. I cut off 1.5 inches from the base of the mast and raised it using a piece of pressure treated pine. Water that finds its way into the bilge doesn’t wet the base now since it’s raised. I no longer have an issue with corrosion. The step isn’t quite identical to what was removed. The steel rod that once attached to a welded flange on the base now attaches directly to the base plate. The base is screwed into the keel using lag-bolts. I replaced mine with stainless bolts that are 1.5 inches longer. It took only a few hours to do the replacement.
A complementary repair is to remove, clean, and rebed the mast collar. Inspect the deck around the opening for rot. It is not uncommon to find rot there due to water intrusion. It is difficult to keep the seal under the collar from leaking. The mast moves a bit when under sail which tends to break the bond. The aluminum collar tends to corrode and would be expensive to replace.
Rich
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My big rubber gasket has been cut into four pieces used one on each side,one each fore and aft. what little space is left after that I throw in one of those plastic wedges that you use for adjusting a doorframe. Seems to work.
AlanSent from my iPhone
Quote:On Sep 23, 2014, at 12:23 PM, Pete Dubler via maillist wrote:Speaking of which… Regarding the big thick rubber mast collar, do folks use wooden wedges in addition to that collar? I don’t have any wooden wedges in there now as I frankly don’t see room for them.
Thanks,
Pete
Quote:On 9/23/2014 8:53 AM, re.carter— via maillist wrote:
It’s quite common for the mast step to corrode as well as the bottom inch or so of the mast. The step is on a small shelf in the bilge but water that enters the forward part of the bilge must run over this shelf and invariably gets the step wet. Water comes from the forepeak through the vent and depending on where you mount the water speed transducer may come from that during periodic cleaning. Water also comes down the inside of the mast when it rains. When the step corrodes, the metal expands as it undergoes a chemical reaction. This causes a clamping action on the base of the mast. It is not uncommon for a mast that is left in place for several years to refuse to be pulled from the step. If this happens, the only recourse is to cut off the base of the mast while it is in place. A crane needs to remove compression from the mast base so the cut can proceed. It’s not easy to make a clean cut when the mast is in place. It’s best to take action before things go bad.For those of us who pull their masts at regular intervals, I suggest cleaning and coating the mast step and the lower end of the mast. I use whatever metal paint I have handy, e.g. rustoleum. Clean with a wire wheel on a drill. At some point, the step will need replacement. The lower inch of the mast may also suffer. The fix is to cut off the end of the mast and remove the old step and replace it with a new step. The step can be placed on a block to raise it by the amount cut off. I replaced mine about a year ago and sent out some info about the project. It was an easy fix, costing less than $100 to have a shop make a replacement. I cut off 1.5 inches from the base of the mast and raised it using a piece of pressure treated pine. Water that finds its way into the bilge doesn’t wet the base now since it’s raised. I no longer have an issue with corrosion. The step isn’t quite identical to what was removed. The steel rod that once attached to a welded flange on the base now attaches directly to the base plate. The base is screwed into the keel using lag-bolts. I replaced mine with stainless bolts that are 1.5 inches longer. It took only a few hours to do the replacement.
A complementary repair is to remove, clean, and rebed the mast collar. Inspect the deck around the opening for rot. It is not uncommon to find rot there due to water intrusion. It is difficult to keep the seal under the collar from leaking. The mast moves a bit when under sail which tends to break the bond. The aluminum collar tends to corrode and would be expensive to replace.
Rich
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