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Hello everyone,
I'm thinking of getting another anchor in the near future. Currently I have a 45 lb. CQR over my starboard roller. Is there enough room on the port roller for a 45 lb. Bruce style anchor. I have a 1981 ketch with the extended anchor platform. What are others using?
Jack Clarke
Xanadu IVPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Jack
You’re asking for a religious argument here. Its doubtful that two of us would ever agree on what might be the best anchor.Why do you want two anchors on your bow? I’m trying to visualize how I might set a second anchor without putting it in a dinghy and carting off to wherever I want it dropped. If I’m planning to use the dinghy, I might as well stow it in a lazarette and keep some of the weight off the bow. I keep an FX-85 in there for a storm anchor.
http://www.fortressanchors.com/fortress_anchor_guide.htmlI also have a danforth 22HT in there for a backup. I’ve been considering getting something that is good in weed, maybe a fisherman, but they are too big to handle.
Regards
RichQuote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Don’t you use your bow cannon to launch that other anchor?
-p
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.com
Patrick’s Sailing Blog | http://www.shipsrecord.com/blogs/patrick<.. snip>
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Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
Jack,
I can't answer your first question as I don't have the anchor platform on Sarah. I do carry two anchors on the bow in separate rollers. A Bruce (primary in the starboard roller) and a Chinese CQR in the port roller. I have had only one occasion when I've had to use the second anchor, but I was really glad it was on the bow and not in a locker. That was when the entire anchorage dragged anchors during a frontal passage with several boats fouling my anchor. I had to cut it free and get out of there. I was thankful the backup anchor was in place and I didn't have to drag it out of locker and up to the bow to set once i was clear of the other boats.In the Bahamas it is not uncommon to set a Bahamanian Moor with two anchors in areas with a strong current and restricted swinging room. I haven't as yet found that anchor configuration necessary so I can't comment on that other than it is normally done without using the dinghy.
As far as what anchor to purchase as your secondary or primary anchor, I'm with Rich I'd rather discuss religious preferences or the allegations of wife-beating. than what anchor someone should purchase.
John
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Rich Carter < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Jack
You're asking for a religious argument here. Its doubtful that two of us would ever agree on what might be the best anchor.
Why do you want two anchors on your bow? I'm trying to visualize how I might set a second anchor without putting it in a dinghy and carting off to wherever I want it dropped. If I'm planning to use the dinghy, I might as well stow it in a lazarette and keep some of the weight off the bow. I keep an FX-85 in there for a storm anchor.
http://www.fortressanchors.com/fortress_anchor_guide.html
I also have a danforth 22HT in there for a backup. I've been considering getting something that is good in weed, maybe a fisherman, but they are too big to handle.
Regards
RichQuote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Hi, Jack,
I have a 45 lb. CQR over my port roller (after many years, I’ve identified this as my secondary anchor, for my cruising grounds) and a 40 lb. Danforth over my starboard roller. I’ve actually had to deploy them both only once, but it’s nice to have the second anchor there just in case. Anyway, my Pearson doesn’t have the extended anchor platform, but there is ample room for both anchors as long as you have dual rollers. I installed a second roller some years ago. The roller I installed was an “universal” one and therefore engages both of my anchors. Hope this helps.Cheers,
Mary E. Springhorn
P424, PARALLAX, Hull #61
Sailing out of Bellingham, WAPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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I have a 35Kg Bruce starboard (75lb) and a 45 lb CQR port. Also, a 25 lb Fortress in the stern.
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 8:47 PM, Alan P < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Jack, I don't have the extended platform. But, I have a 45 lbs Bruce on the stb side and a 45 CQR on the port. All seems to fit.
alan— On Tue, 2/24/09, Jack P Clarke < ([email][/email])> wrote:
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Hi Jack:
My boat only came with a 35 lb Bruce, which is too small in my opinion. I
will be getting one of the new gen anchors. I was ready to order a 60 lb
Manson Supreme, but the Raya anchor that came out last fall has caught my
attention.http://www.ancoralatina.com/acolhimento/ingles/description_carateristic/a_better_penetration.html
I am still waiting to here back some test reports on this anchor. I know one
was shipped to Toronto last fall, but I haven’t talked to the owner to see
how much of a workout it got before freeze up. I would probably go up one
size and look at the 1600 cm2 size.Paul
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Hi y’all
I have a 45 lb CQR on my starboard bow roller ( anchor platform, not original ) and I have a 22 lb danforth ready to use, but stored in my anchor locker at the bow. I keep an FX 55 as a storm anchor in my lazerette and have yet to use it. The CQR works great and I don’t see the need for another plow, hence the danforth which is excellent in sand. I have almost always anchored in sand here in the Caribbean and prior in the Bahamas. I’ve found the key to not dragging is scope, as much as 10:1 when it blows real hard. I have 100′ of 3/8 BBB chain plus 200′ of nylon rode on my CQR. I use the danforth as a second anchor if gale force winds are expected. I am very satisfied with this arrangement.
Joe,
Half Moon
— On Tue, 2/24/09, Jack P Clarke <> wrote:
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Offhand I can think of two common uses for a second, substantial bow anchor.
Bahamian mooring, where 2 bow anchors are set 180° apart, is used primarily for mooring in reversing tidal
currents so that the boat stays roughly in the same spot during the ebbs and flows. A clever variation of
this, which takes some extra effort to set up, is to lead both rodes to a single swivel shackle just below the
bow so that the rodes do not become entwined after the boat has swung repeatedly.The more common use for a second hook is setting two bow anchors to a prevailing wind with the rodes forming
an angle of 45-60°. This will reduce your chances of dragging in any number of situations, including sudden
squalls, having one anchor fouled by a neighbor, or having one rode severed by some idiot motoring across your
bow. (This last is a good reason to mark the location of your anchors with small floats, the lines for which,
if attached correctly, can also help break an anchor free when it becomes stuck under something on the
bottom.)It’s unnecessary to use a dinghy to set a second anchor in any of these situations. Rather, you set the first
anchor, then give it a lot of slack rode and motor the vessel to the spot where you want the second anchor to
lie. Set that one as usual and, as you do, retrieve the extra rode of the first anchor. Weigh the anchors in
the reverse order, i.e., slack rode #1, retrieve anchor #2, then weigh the #1 hook.I suspect those who (almost) never use a second bow anchor are not cruising your boats long-term, limiting
yourselves to day sails, weekends and occasional summer vacations. I believe most boats that go cruising carry
2 bow anchors and use the #2 more than often enough to justify it. Personally, I would never leave my boat at
single anchor when I’m going to be away all day or longer.Of course, I also carry a stern anchor, albeit a relatively small one. This I rarely use on this side of the
Atlantic, but there are times when it’s just the ticket. I did use it constantly for Mediterranean mooring
“over there,” since I preferred going bow-to in order to have more privacy in the cockpit and cabin, and also
because it’s a much easier maneuver bow first when single-handing.Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Tor
Please don’t take this as an attempt to start a religious argument. 30 years of weekends and vacations can add up to a lot of anchoring. Just because someone doesn’t favor dual-anchors doesn’t mean they’re a novice. The cruising ground here in the Northeast is typically tidal. If you set two anchors off the bow, you are likely to find that they wrap around each other and make it impossible to retrieve. The swivel jack you describe might mitigate the problem, but it sounds difficult to setup and it seems that the bitter-ends will still entagle. If you set one off the bow and one off the stern, this won’t happen. If there are other boats in the anchorage, you won’t swing the same way they do however, so you’ll likely get to know them well in the middle of the night. An advantage to the bow-stern anchor technique is that you can get better TV reception since the boat won’t be swinging around. If there is no roller on the stern, retrieval can take some planning. Also, she won’t lie to the wind. This can make the cockpit uncomfortable in a breeze.If you cruise in areas where there is much current, it is my humble opinion that you are better off with one good anchor than two weak ones. A few years ago I left my boat on anchor all summer on a single anchor, the Fortress FX-85 I keep as a storm anchor. When set in sand with all chain rhode, I sleep pretty well and had no worries if I left it alone for a week. It can be very difficult to retrieve, so I don’t use it unless there’s an emergency or I’m planning to stay put for a while. Even powering over it doesn’t pull it out without a lot of work. The shank doesn’t fit on my bow roller, so once up, I have to set a second anchor so that I can retrieve it. I wish it were easier to set. In an emergency, it would take me at least a half hour to set this up. There’s no way that it could be stored on deck. Its just too big.
We had a rendezvous on Long Island last summer. I wanted to set that anchor, but I just had minor surgery and couldn’t lift anything without causing problems. I should have asked for help and set it anyway because we had a fire drill when the boats all dragged.
I’ve always been suspicious of the two anchor theory. I’m familiar with the two anchors at about 60 degree techniqe. Again, it is my humble opinion that this is weak. As the boat hobby-horses in the wind, the entire load will take up on one anchor, then the other. There is only a short period of time where the load will take up on both. In a blow, I think that one will drag, then the other. There you are with two anchors dragging and no way to retrieve them; no thanks.
No matter what technique you use, its imprortant that you are comfortable with it. We all have different experiences and differing opinions. If in my opinion someone’s doing something stupid, its also important that they do so elsewhere. Otherwise, I won’t be comfortable. I’ve seen some pretty stupid anchoring schemes as I’m sure we all have.
Regards
Rich
Original Message
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In a message dated 2/25/2009 12:55:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes:
All of us here in the Bahamas are getting a real kick out of this discourse – please keep it up!
~~~ ~ (_~~ (_~ ~ ~ fair winds ~ ~ (_
Capt Bill Tice, aboard s/v CHARISMA, George Town, Exuma, Bahamas
Get a jump start on your taxes. Find a tax professional in your neighborhood today.Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Hi Rich,
There are times for the dual anchors off the bow and times they're not recommended. I've anchored in the Hudson River where there can be great current and it gets very choppy. In addition, due to the nature of the mountainous banks wind travels straight up and down river. In a big blow (25+kts) the boat at anchor will sail a great deal and be extraordinarily uncomfortable when it becomes broadside at the extremes of each swing. By placing the anchors 90 deg. apart and backing down on both of them, the motion becomes much kinder and the boat ceases to sail about the anchors.
When the current changes, the boat will move up between the anchors so any twists will be at the top.
It is a method well worth practicing because it is useful. Like some of the odder tools in our toolbox, you may not need them often but when you do…
Bob
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I think I'll start the wife-beating thread now.
John
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 1:13 PM, < ([email][/email])> wrote:
In a message dated 2/25/2009 12:55:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, () writes:
All of us here in the Bahamas are getting a real kick out of this discourse – please keep it up!
~~~ ~ (_~~ (_~ ~ ~ fair winds ~ ~ (_
Capt Bill Tice, aboard s/v CHARISMA, George Town, Exuma, BahamasGet a jump start on your taxes. Find a tax professional in your neighborhood today.
—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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just joking, guys, but you can imagine the opinions & practices around here!
BILL
~~~ ~ (_~~ (_~ ~ ~ fair winds ~ ~ (_
Capt Bill Tice, aboard s/v CHARISMA, George Town, Exuma, Bahamas
Get a jump start on your taxes. Find a tax professional in your neighborhood today.Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Rich,
The fact that we and our boats are still in tact testifies to the fact that our different anchoring techniques work for us in our respective cruising grounds. I didn’t mean to disparage local sailing/anchoring as opposed to long-term cruising. I just wanted to point out that I’ve rarely seen a cruising boat with only one bow anchor, and that there are times when the second hook has proven useful to me.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Original Message
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NOT FAIR!
I want to go now instead of dreaming. Kids, business, parents and most of all money, what little there was just evaporated. Hey but you guys have fun in the sun while we freeze our butts off up here.
Bill give a heads up when you come through Oriental. Meet you at the tiki bar.Linus
<.. snip>
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In a message dated 2/25/2009 9:53:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes:
Bill give a heads up when you come through Oriental. Meet you at the tiki bar.
Looking forward to it, Linus!
~~~ ~ (_~~ (_~ ~ ~ fair winds ~ ~ (_
Capt Bill Tice, aboard s/v CHARISMA, George Town, Exuma, Bahamas
Get a jump start on your taxes. Find a tax professional in your neighborhood today.Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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How did you get your parents and kids to evaporate? Brilliant. More disposable $ that way. Mine keep finding their way back from Port Authority.
-Adam Silverstein-iPhone (“trust everyone but cut the cards”)
On Feb 25, 2009, at 9:53 PM, “Linus Martinez” < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:NOT FAIR!
I want to go now instead of dreaming. Kids, business, parents and most of all money, what little there was just evaporated. Hey but you guys have fun in the sun while we freeze our butts off up here.
Bill give a heads up when you come through Oriental. Meet you at the tiki bar.Linus
<.. snip>
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Easy Reach came from its PO with 45# and 60# CQRs, both mounted on the anchor sprit, the former with rope and 15′ of chain and the latter with chain and an old Simpson Lawrence with a gypsy and rope winch. I use the 60# exclusively for anchoring, attaching the rode to the bow cleats with two 25′ half-inch nylon twisted rope snubbers, secured to a chain grabber ala Earl Hinz’s recommendations in his book on anchoring. I’ve never dragged, but have had trouble setting it in heavy grass, stony bottoms, or hard western Carribean sand. In the latter case, I dove the anchor to set it. In the former cases I gave up and went to a dock. I have gone Bahamanian a few times in the ICW and once in Beaufort, NC. The latter was a pain because the boat would swing 360 degrees so the rope rode was underneath between the skeg and keel and we had to dive, in llate November temparatures, to free it. I also use the roped 45# as a kedge.
Norris Larson, Hull #203
— On Wed, 2/25/09, Silver Heels <> wrote:
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