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What’s with the little pocket just forward of the mast in the bilge? Deep enough to hold a gallon or two of water and then sit there keeping the base of the mast wet because not only is there that pocket forward, they built a little 1/2″ tall dam just aft the mast on the edge of the step. What were they thinking? Has anyone done anything to this area like put in a tiny bilge pump, drill drainage holes?
I haven’t fished under the fwd water tank yet and I assume there is a limber from the chain locker. The water I have there at present (I hope, I saw it dripping during rain) is from a leak at some windlass wires running through the old hause from the deck chain locker.
Ken
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There is no purpose to that well of mold producing water. It does
communicate to the anchor locker under the water tank. It was put there
mostly to annoy us. Or to keep the humidity of the bilge high.That 1/2 inch dam is part of the mast step.
Bob
I’m not being terse. This is from my cell phone and I detest typing on it.
On Nov 1, 2013 3:27 AM, “Page Two” wrote:What’s with the little pocket just forward of the mast in the bilge? Deep
enough to hold a gallon or two of water and then sit there keeping the base
of the mast wet because not only is there that pocket forward, they built a
little 1/2″ tall dam just aft the mast on the edge of the step. What were
they thinking? Has anyone done anything to this area like put in a tiny
bilge pump, drill drainage holes?I haven’t fished under the fwd water tank yet and I assume there is a
limber from the chain locker. The water I have there at present (I hope, I
saw it dripping during rain) is from a leak at some windlass wires running
through the old hause from the deck chain locker.Ken
Ken and Vicky # 91……Writing a New Chapter Page by Page in an Old Book._______________________________________________
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I breed my pet mosquitos in that puddle. Very handy.
As for the anchor locker draining into the bilge, hello? One of Mr.
Pearson’s less brilliant notions. When you bring in yucky anchor rode from a
muddy bottom it can only drain into the bilge starting forward and
eventually, theoretically find its way back to the sump to be pumped
overboard – except for the last inch of sludge. Thirty years of that
nonsense doesn’t do much to sweeten the bilges. When cut out the original
anchor well and built a proper chain locker forward, I sealed the bottom of
the locker so it no longer drains into the boat. Then I drilled limber holes
through the hull at the base of the locker sides, port & starboard, angled
slightly down and aft to encourage water to drain out but not flow in. On
the outside I mounted small clamshell covers (see photo) to deflect
seawater. This arrangement works perfectly. Silverheels’ chain locker is
always dry, easy to rinse out with a water hose, and her bilges are clean –
except for that puddle forward of the mainmast, which I sop dry with a
sponge every once in a while.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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I think your right Bob.
After I posted this I thought of the PIA it represents and thought…..I could form a styrofoam filler in the well and glass over it, yeah, what a PIA that would be!
I doubt that 1/2″ dam couldn’t live with a couple of 1/2 breeches in it and then it can just “pretend” to be a PIA. -
I thought of using epoxy floor levelling compound used for levelling dips
and so forth in concrete floors. But to date, I can’t be bothered.Bob
On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Page Two wrote:
I think your right Bob.
After I posted this I thought of the PIA it represents and thought…..I
could form a styrofoam filler in the well and glass over it, yeah, what a
PIA that would be!
I doubt that 1/2″ dam couldn’t live with a couple of 1/2 breeches in it
and then it can just “pretend” to be a PIA.
Ken and Vicky # 91……Writing a New Chapter Page by Page in an Old Book._______________________________________________
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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I like that Tor and the water line snubber too. I want!
Now I see why you spent so much time in GCSM. I kind of wish I could do that too. I already foresee a goodly amount on the hard coming already.Ken
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I put a small automatic bilge pump in this depression to keep it dry and ran discharge into bilge. Really dumb design
S
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On Nov 1, 2013, at 12:27 AM, “Page Two” wrote:
What’s with the little pocket just forward of the mast in the bilge? Deep enough to hold a gallon or two of water and then sit there keeping the base of the mast wet because not only is there that pocket forward, they built a little 1/2″ tall dam just aft the mast on the edge of the step. What were they thinking? Has anyone done anything to this area like put in a tiny bilge pump, drill drainage holes?
I haven’t fished under the fwd water tank yet and I assume there is a limber from the chain locker. The water I have there at present (I hope, I saw it dripping during rain) is from a leak at some windlass wires running through the old hause from the deck chain locker.
Ken
Ken and Vicky # 91……Writing a New Chapter Page by Page in an Old Book._______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
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We made a 1″ high fiberglass platform for the mast step just to get it out of the water. I think that little depression just forward of the mast is to catch the gallon or so of seawater that gets in the boat when we clean the knot meter impeller, and store to it in an inaccessible place.
Tor, how big are the drain holes?
Quent -
Tor, how big are the drain holes?
Hey Quent,
I don’t remember. Probably around 1/2″, but initially over-drilled and then
epoxy-coated to keep water out of the hull laminate.Incidentally, since I expected the bottom of the chain locker to be wet much
of the time, I made a pair of epoxy-coated blocks from scrap 2×4, drilled a
big hole through the middle, passed the bitter end of each anchor rode
through one of the blocks and secured it with a stop knot. These blocks act
as filler pieces, holding line off the locker bottom surface. Mainly,
though, they’re line stoppers to prevent an accidental loss of an entire
anchor rode overboard because I scoped out more rode than I have, the blocks
being too big to fit through the deck pipes.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Ken,
I changed the set-up on that anchor chain snubber. Some time after taking
that photo (back in 2009), it occurred to me that if I ever had to slip
anchor in an emergency, I would first have to retrieve about 20′ of chain
with the windlass in order to release the snubber. I could imagine
situations where this could be dangerous or even impossible. So now I run
the snubber from a bow cleat alongside the anchor roller, then down to &
thru the stem eyebolt (with some chafe protection) and back to the foredeck
again (photo attached). If it ever becomes necessary to let go, I can do it
instantly.It is a permanent joke at the boat yard that when I first arrived back in
early 2007 I announced I’d be there “a few months” whipping my old 424 into
shape, and then I was going cruising. Well, there is a popular saying among
sailors about planning boat projects: Make your best conservative estimate,
then double the cost and triple the time. In my experience that is a gross
understatement. 2½ years later I finally did set sail – with a much-improved
boat. The thing is, I had already been cruising quite a bit in previous
boats and so I didn’t feel so compelled to “get going” this time. That
turned out to be a great blessing. It allowed me to slow down, relax, focus
on one refit job at a time and actually enjoy the process. And I did! BTW,
most of that time we were afloat dockside, not on the hard, and that
certainly helped the attitude.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Water around the mast step causes the step to rust. The inside of the ring expands and clamps around the mast base. If you haven’t had your mast out in several years, expect to cut the bottom two inches off your mast in order to pull it. The fix then is to build a replacement step and set it on a block to raise the mast up off the bilge bottom. I pull my mast every year but after over 30 years. Each season I cleaned and painted the mast step. After sitting on a wet step for that many years, the bottom inch or so of the mast was looking pretty sad. I cut mine off and built a new step, placing a block of pressure-treated pine under the step.
As far as the little dam, I cut a channel on each side to let water drain past into the main bilge. This helps but doesn’t solve the dampness problem.
I’ve thought of dumping a small amount of concrete into the forward depression just to fill the space. A layer of epoxy paint over this should seal it.
I’ve also thought of dumping a large amount of concrete into the bilge to make the bottom accessible. I haven’t convinced myself that this will work.
Rich
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Rich,
Your mast step fix sounds smart, although I’m not sure a wood block is as
durable as some other materials might be. FYI, not all 424’s have mast steps
as far gone as you describe. When I pulled Silverheels’ masts in 2007, the
main step was rusty but not corroded or swelled, and the mainmast base was
corrosion-free. I cleaned it up really well, then prepped the clean metal
with phosphoric acid, then zinc oxide primer, and finally a couple of coats
of some super paint for steel boats that some Brits gave me, white so I can
see problems developing. Six years later the paint & step still look good
with no signs of rust. However, I rarely have water around it and when I do
it’s rainwater, not salt since my chain locker is sealed. I’m sure that
helps.If I ever had to replace that step (which I don’t anticipate in my
lifetime), I think I’d spring for a stainless steel version from a machine
shop.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Actually, that depression is there in anticipation of the center fuel
tank I glassed into the hull and I too put a little bilge pump there to
move the forward water aft around the fuel tank. Clever forward thinker
that Perry guy.Pete
On 11/1/2013 9:58 AM, Steven Weinberg, Ph.D. wrote:
I put a small automatic bilge pump in this depression to keep it dry and ran discharge into bilge. Really dumb design
S
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 1, 2013, at 12:27 AM, “Page Two” wrote:
What’s with the little pocket just forward of the mast in the bilge? Deep enough to hold a gallon or two of water and then sit there keeping the base of the mast wet because not only is there that pocket forward, they built a little 1/2″ tall dam just aft the mast on the edge of the step. What were they thinking? Has anyone done anything to this area like put in a tiny bilge pump, drill drainage holes?
I haven’t fished under the fwd water tank yet and I assume there is a limber from the chain locker. The water I have there at present (I hope, I saw it dripping during rain) is from a leak at some windlass wires running through the old hause from the deck chain locker.
Ken
Ken and Vicky # 91……Writing a New Chapter Page by Page in an Old Book._______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
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Tor,
My rigger recommended starboard plastic sheet for the block under the mast. I didn’t have time for him to cut it and I had piece of pressure-treated hanging around. I think the pressure-treated wood will work just fine. I bedded it with liquid-nails and installed new stainless lag-bolts, long enough to compensate for the 1.5″ block of wood. I paid $50 at a local welding shop to make the new mast step. I painted it with several coats of metal primer and paint. Now that it’s out of the bilge, it doesn’t rust. Total cost for the job was $50 and it tool about 4 hours including cutting the mast. I’ll send a photo of the mast-step when I get a chance. It’s not exactly the same as the old one because the steel rod now mounts to the base of the mast step instead of the top.Rich
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Rich,
I agree that what you did will work just fine, and you can’t beat the cost. Most of my “improvements” have followed the same kind of approach: Work with what you have, don’t try to build a new Swan, and don’t sweat the small stuff.
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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To All,
I hate the idea of putting in a bilge pump for a gallon or so of water.
The fact that Tor has put drain holes in the chain locker and still, occasionally sponges out water bothers me.
The port and starboard water tank overflows also run into that space.
I’d love to have all that bilge space aft of the mast dry as a bone.
(talking out loud here)
Maybe fill the well with “whatever” and glass over…… “use” the dam to install a drain hose or two, p&s, to the deep bilge. It would be easily accessible to keep clear…
Lengthen water tank overfill hose to deep bilge.
Raise the mast on a block of something when next I have the mast out, absolute minimum.
Do as Tor did, close the bottom and drill drainage in the chain-locker.
Short $$$$ all around!
Thanks guys,
KenP.S. Is it possible that my 33 year old boat has never had it’s stanchion bases rebedded? Plenty of goop on deck. Looks like an original dried out some kind of foam headliner covering the nuts underneath. What say you all?
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…Raise the mast on a block of something when next I have the mast out, absolute minimum….
You’ll need to cut an equal amount off the mast.
Use G10 (Garolite), excellent compression strength.You can get rid of the mast step all together by making a new one of from Garolite with a shoe on to that profiles the interior of the mast. The mast won’t corrode and or get stuck to the step.
They corrode because everything from leaves, nesting material, small birds, salt and such get stuck down there and hold moisture between the metal mating surfaces.
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Chuck….duly noted. I guess if you bought .125 thick 24 x 24 sheet ($60) and epoxied them together you could get 3/4″ rise.
Or laminate a riser with woven glass and West epoxy, might be a cheaper way out and be able to form it custom without having to cut and fit the G10. ???
Not sure when I’ll un-step, but I’ll snoop around some more before then.
Thanks,
Ken -
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I went with a 1.5″ block because this let me screw the threaded rod directly into the base of the step. The original step had a flat plate welded to the top of the step where the rod attached. The distance between this plate and the base was 1.5″. I rebuilt the step without this plate and drilled and threaded a hole in the base where the rod now attaches.
I bought one of those double-cut saws from harbor freight to cut the mast; went through the aluminum like a hot-knife through butter. I found that it works best with plunge cuts, leaving the mast a bit long and grinding off the extra later.
Rich
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