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The old switch is about shot and want to replace it but have trouble with the selection.
The existing switch has off/on/crank and a push to engage the glowplugs momentary position. I have found plenty of switches with off/on/acc/crank and similar but the only ones I found with a momentary function were for a carburetor choke and not sure if they would handle the amperage for the glow plug solenoid.
Anyone know a model number for the proper Cole Hersey or similar switch, preferably a marine grade, water resistant and such.
Thanks
Skip -
Skip,
Why not just put the glowplug circuit on separate momentary switch. That’s
how my Westerbecke was wired. My Yanmar switch turns counter clockwise to
engage the glow plugs, but I’ve never used that feature.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comOn Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:21 PM, skipmac wrote:
The old switch is about shot and want to replace it but have trouble with
the selection.The existing switch has off/on/crank and a push to engage the glowplugs
momentary position. I have found plenty of switches with
off/on/acc/crank and similar but the only ones I found with a momentary
function were for a carburetor choke and not sure if they would handle the
amperage for the glow plug solenoid.Anyone know a model number for the proper Cole Hersey or similar switch,
preferably a marine grade, water resistant and such.Thanks
Skip_______________________________________________
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Skip,
West Marine and Defender’s both sell OFF-ON-START switches – all you need
for the Westerbeke is the off and on position. The glow plugs don’t take
that much power and the switch is perfectly capable of passing it. Mine
might even have a relay for the glow plugs just behind the instrument
panel, but I’m not sure. They’re cheap (<$15) and easy to install. You
can get them at any auto parts store.Bob
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 9:37 AM, John Stevenson wrote:
Skip,
Why not just put the glowplug circuit on separate momentary switch. That’s
how my Westerbecke was wired. My Yanmar switch turns counter clockwise to
engage the glow plugs, but I’ve never used that feature.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comOn Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:21 PM, skipmac wrote:
The old switch is about shot and want to replace it but have trouble with
the selection.The existing switch has off/on/crank and a push to engage the glowplugs
momentary position. I have found plenty of switches with
off/on/acc/crank and similar but the only ones I found with a momentary
function were for a carburetor choke and not sure if they would handlethe
amperage for the glow plug solenoid.
Anyone know a model number for the proper Cole Hersey or similar switch,
preferably a marine grade, water resistant and such.Thanks
Skip_______________________________________________
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—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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@john stevenson wrote:
Skip,
Why not just put the glowplug circuit on separate momentary switch. That’s
how my Westerbecke was wired. My Yanmar switch turns counter clockwise to
engage the glow plugs, but I’ve never used that feature.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comThanks John,
Had thought about using a separate momentary for the glow plugs but available spots on the instrument panel are pretty limited and small. Plus my instrument panel has a gasketed plexi cover to keep the water out and just a small cutout to reach the key which would make access to a button in the panel problematic.
Also, I was thinking about using that space to add an idiot light to the oil pressure and temp sensors. Yes the gauges work but want something really bright guaranteed to get the attention of whoever is on watch if something happens with the engine.
So yes a separate button would work but not the most ideal solution and I’m striving for perfection. OK, stop laughing. I’ll confess that I will settle for workable and easy.
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Hi Bob,
I have a new ON/OFF/START switch but the only way to use that switch with the glow plugs is to connect their circuit to the ON position which would mean they are always on when the engine is running. This is my first engine with glow plugs but I think that is a no no and would burn them out quickly?
I don’t have a relay behind the panel for the glow plugs. The wire goes from the ignition switch straight to the relay on the block. That relay is pretty large and I have no idea how many amps it will draw but based on the size it could be a few.
So far all the switches I have found with a push/momentary feature are made for a carb choke which draws very little. Think one of these would handle the power to engage the glow plug solenoid? Or, do you know the rating for that solenoid?
Thanks
Skip@madsailor wrote:
Skip,
West Marine and Defender’s both sell OFF-ON-START switches – all you need
for the Westerbeke is the off and on position. The glow plugs don’t take
that much power and the switch is perfectly capable of passing it. Mine
might even have a relay for the glow plugs just behind the instrument
panel, but I’m not sure. They’re cheap (<$15) and easy to install. You
can get them at any auto parts store.Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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Hi Skip,
There is a direct replacement for your switch. Instead of an idiot light,
consider a 12vdc piezo alarm from Radio Shack. I replaced my failed buzzer
with it and when there’s high temperature or low oil it makes enough noise
to wake the dead.Bob
Pardon the brevity. I’m typing this on my phone and I hate typing on my
phone.
On Feb 21, 2014 10:25 AM, “skipmac” wrote:john stevenson wrote:
Skip,
Why not just put the glowplug circuit on separate momentary switch.That’s
how my Westerbecke was wired. My Yanmar switch turns counter clockwise
to
engage the glow plugs, but I’ve never used that feature.
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comThanks John,
Had thought about using a separate momentary for the glow plugs but
available spots on the instrument panel are pretty limited and small. Plus
my instrument panel has a gasketed plexi cover to keep the water out and
just a small cutout to reach the key which would make access to a button in
the panel problematic.Also, I was thinking about using that space to add an idiot light to the
oil pressure and temp sensors. Yes the gauges work but want something
really bright guaranteed to get the attention of whoever is on watch if
something happens with the engine.So yes a separate button would work but not the most ideal solution and
I’m striving for perfection. OK, stop laughing. I’ll confess that I will
settle for workable and easy._______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
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What engine do you have again? Usually there is a button for the glow
plugs. If you have a Westerbeke then just wire the switch exactly as it is.
The glow plug button is wired into the starting circuit.You can tell if you have to press the glow plug button and a start button
to start the engine. Then the power for the glow plugs come from the
starter relay power.Bob
Pardon the brevity. I’m typing this on my phone and I hate typing on my
phone.
On Feb 21, 2014 10:33 AM, “skipmac” wrote:Hi Bob,
I have a new ON/OFF/START switch but the only way to use that switch with
the glow plugs is to connect their circuit to the ON position which would
mean they are always on when the engine is running. This is my first
engine with glow plugs but I think that is a no no and would burn them out
quickly?I don’t have a relay behind the panel for the glow plugs. The wire goes
from the ignition switch straight to the relay on the block. That relay
is pretty large and I have no idea how many amps it will draw but based on
the size it could be a few.So far all the switches I have found with a push/momentary feature are
made for a carb choke which draws very little. Think one of these would
handle the power to engage the glow plug solenoid? Or, do you know the
rating for that solenoid?Thanks
Skipmadsailor wrote:
Skip,
West Marine and Defender’s both sell OFF-ON-START switches – all you need
for the Westerbeke is the off and on position. The glow plugs don’t take
that much power and the switch is perfectly capable of passing it. Mine
might even have a relay for the glow plugs just behind the instrument
panel, but I’m not sure. They’re cheap (<$15) and easy to install. You
can get them at any auto parts store.Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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@madsailor wrote:
Hi Skip,
There is a direct replacement for your switch. Instead of an idiot light,
consider a 12vdc piezo alarm from Radio Shack. I replaced my failed buzzer
with it and when there’s high temperature or low oil it makes enough noise
to wake the dead.Bob
Wake the dead (or asleep or inattentive) is what I want. That piezo alarm sounds like it’s just the ticket. Thanks
-
@madsailor wrote:
What engine do you have again? Usually there is a button for the glow
plugs. If you have a Westerbeke then just wire the switch exactly as it is.
The glow plug button is wired into the starting circuit.You can tell if you have to press the glow plug button and a start button
to start the engine. Then the power for the glow plugs come from the
starter relay power.Bob
I have the original W58 and still have the original ignition switch. The switch does work but the key is very, very loose and you have to jiggle it just so to get it to turn. Could fail at any time and I’m certain that when it does fail it will happen at the most embarrassing moment.
The original switch is OFF/ON/START with a push momentary for the glow plugs. I could wire the new switch that has OFF/ON/START without the push so the glow plugs are connected to the start circuit but in that case they only work when the starter is cranking. In my limited experience the recommended way to use glow plugs it to heat them for 15-20 seconds before cranking so think the push to heat function is the way to go.
So, preferred solution is to replace the original switch with a new with the same function.
Skip
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Pearson originally put the ignition switch in the starboard lazarette with instructions to leave the hatch open when operating. I have no idea what they were thinking. There was a shutoff cable that ran from a recess near the helmsman to the injection pump. The glow-plug button was on the instrument panel under the bridge-deck. The key had three positions, off, on, and momentary-start. I am not aware of any different setup from the factory. Most folks have changed the location of the key. The instrument panel is an obvious choice, but it’s not really a good spot. The helmsman can’t reach it in an emergency without leaving the wheel. At least one member relocated the instrument panel to the aft seat back. I can’t really read my instruments where they are located. It’s a bit far for my tired eyes to read. Guests like to sit on the bridge-deck and dangle their legs in front of the instruments, so even if I squint, I frequently can’t see them. They belong on the binnacle somewhere but I can find no convenient spot to mount them.
I don’t think there is any reason for a key for the engine. If the battery selector switch is turned off, there should be no way to start the engine. This seems like a sufficient security measure. I see no reason to have a key for starting. It’s just something else that can get lost or broken. A switch and pair of buttons can work in place of the key.
I removed my shutoff cable from the recess near the helmsman’s right ankle and installed three switches in there, on/off, start, and stop. The on/off switch supplies power to the instrument panel. Off activates the shutoff solenoid on my engine and on engages the starter. My engine has no glow plugs.
http://www.richardcarter.net/repower/Instruments.html
I have since marked the two buttons with a green and red stripe of tape on the panel, green for start, red for shutoff. I wish I had enlarged the recessed panel. It would have been nice to add switches for navigation instruments, running lights, and autopilot. How many times have I left the mooring and forgotten to turn the autopilot braker on? You can’t leave the wheel unless you turn on the autopilot and you can’t turn on the autopilot unless you leave the wheel.
You may have a shutoff cable, in which case you can’t really use the recess for relocating the buttons. I never liked the shutoff cable. Water gets in there and the thing was continually binding from corrosion. I eventually replaced it with an automatic solenoid that shut off the fuel pump when the ignition switch turned off. When I repowered, my new engine came with a shutoff solenoid, which is the reverse of what I prefer.
BTW: The glow-plugs on my old W-60 took 50A to preheat the engine. A normal momentary switch won’t pass this much current. I had a solenoid relay mounted near the engine to supply power to the glow-plugs. Check your glow-plugs and compare their current draw with any switch you use.
Regards
Rich
BlackSheep #47
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Hi Rich,
Guess I have a dirty little secret to confess. I don’t really have a 424 but the orphan cousin, the 422. Hull, rig, engine and most systems in common but in addition to the center cockpit, there are some significant differences.
I guess one is the ignition switch and instrument panel. I thought the 424s were like mine but maybe not. I have a panel in the cockpit with all the instruments and the switch in the panel. Fuel shutoff is a solenoid activated when the ignition is on so no cable. Would prefer a cable since it’s less likely to fail and easier to fix than a solenoid but oh well.
So the mods would be doable but I already have a very, very long list I’m trying to finish so I can get back in the water this spring so really prefer a quick and easy swap out the switch fix on this one.
I think I’ve found a couple of Cole Hersee switches that will work, even though they aren’t specifically made for diesels but do have a momentary position. My glow plugs do run off a solenoid on the forward end (back of the block of course) of the engine, just not certain how many amps the solenoid draws.
Thanks
SkipPS. Please don’t kick me off the forum just because my model is two numbers less than the norm.
-
422 or 424, it’s all the same to us!
Ok, if you have the standard Westerbeke engine panel with keyswitch, glow
plug button, and start button AND you have to hold the glow plug button as
well as the start button to start the engine then you only need the off and
on part of the starter switch. Nothing gets connected to the start
terminal. Behind the panel or near the engine there is a relay that powers
the glow plugs.As far as the alarm goes, you connect it in parallel to the idiot light.
I would say that if your current switch works and you have a direct
replacement the easiest thing to do is to replace it.On the W58, the fuel solenoid is energized whenever the ignition switch is
on.Bob
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 12:41 PM, skipmac wrote:
Hi Rich,
Guess I have a dirty little secret to confess. I don’t really have a 424
but the orphan cousin, the 422. Hull, rig, engine and most systems in
common but in addition to the center cockpit, there are some significant
differences.I guess one is the ignition switch and instrument panel. I thought the
424s were like mine but maybe not. I have a panel in the cockpit with all
the instruments and the switch in the panel. Fuel shutoff is a solenoid
activated when the ignition is on so no cable. Would prefer a cable since
it’s less likely to fail and easier to fix than a solenoid but oh well.So the mods would be doable but I already have a very, very long list I’m
trying to finish so I can get back in the water this spring so really
prefer a quick and easy swap out the switch fix on this one.I think I’ve found a couple of Cole Hersee switches that will work, even
though they aren’t specifically made for diesels but do have a momentary
position. My glow plugs do run off a solenoid on the forward end (back of
the block of course) of the engine, just not certain how many amps the
solenoid draws.Thanks
SkipPS. Please don’t kick me off the forum just because my model is two
numbers less than the norm._______________________________________________
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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Skip,
No problem about the 422. I think the hulls come out of the same mold. What is your home port?I’ve had very good success fixing bad switches using a secret switch cleaner that I discovered many years ago. It’s called PB-Blaster and can be purchased in almost any hardware store. Just spray a bit in the switch and let is sit for about 5 minutes. Then operate the switch a few times and presto, just like new! Try squirting a bit of PB-blaster in the ignition key-hole to see if that fixes your switch. There’s only one problem with this stuff. Some switches use a fiber board that absorbs oil and swells when exposed to PB-Blaster. Deoxit makes a better cleaner but is hard to find and very expensive. Deoxit isn’t oil based and won’t harm these switches. I think most modern stuff isn’t effected by the oil based cleaner. Switches prior to about 1975 might not like the stuff however. I restore old vacuum tube radios and use Deoxit on them.
I also use PB-Blaster on my wrenches and other various tools. It keeps them from rusting and removes whatever rust has accumulated. I spray a bit on and work it into whatever moving parts are in there. Then I wipe them down and put them back in the tool box. This is probably why I havn’t had any issues with the Gear Wrench Quad-Boxes I bragged about in an earlier message.
Don’t spray PB-Blaster on your winch or starter motor brushes. It’s flamable. It will clean the brushes pretty well, but might catch on fire (ask me how I know). At least the fire is small and easy to contain.
WD-40 is not very useful but is much more popular. I have no idea how they stay in business. The only use I can find for the stuff is spraying down my outboard motor engine during winter lay-up.
Between PB-Blaster and Duck-tape, there’s almost nothin I can’t fix 🙂
Hope this helps.
Rich
Original Message
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Skip,
We have the Westerbeke 58 and have the same setup that you do. A key
switch With off-on-start positions with the on position having a
momentary push to preheat feature. Ours is mounted on the aft bulkhead
just inside the companionway. I may have a spare but it would be on the
boat under three feet of snow right now. i believe Westerbeke still has
the switches available, but that would of course be at Westerbeke
prices. I doubt that the solenoid would draw more than an amp or so,
its not that large ,so the Cole Hersee switches would probably do fine.Dave
On 2/21/14, 11:41 AM, skipmac wrote:
Hi Rich,
Guess I have a dirty little secret to confess. I don’t really have a 424 but the orphan cousin, the 422. Hull, rig, engine and most systems in common but in addition to the center cockpit, there are some significant differences.
I guess one is the ignition switch and instrument panel. I thought the 424s were like mine but maybe not. I have a panel in the cockpit with all the instruments and the switch in the panel. Fuel shutoff is a solenoid activated when the ignition is on so no cable. Would prefer a cable since it’s less likely to fail and easier to fix than a solenoid but oh well.
So the mods would be doable but I already have a very, very long list I’m trying to finish so I can get back in the water this spring so really prefer a quick and easy swap out the switch fix on this one.
I think I’ve found a couple of Cole Hersee switches that will work, even though they aren’t specifically made for diesels but do have a momentary position. My glow plugs do run off a solenoid on the forward end (back of the block of course) of the engine, just not certain how many amps the solenoid draws.
Thanks
SkipPS. Please don’t kick me off the forum just because my model is two numbers less than the norm.
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Hi Rich,
Yes the hulls are identical. I’ve carefully examined a few 424s at the yards to make sure. The 422 even has the same sump in the keel but it’s mostly filled with the water tank.
I have found a few significant differences in the mechanics. I think the 422 engine is set further forward since the tranny is bolted directly to the v-drive. If I’m not mistaken the 424 has a short drive shaft in there. The best part, the fuel tanks are under the settees in the main cabin and I was able to pull both of them out for cleaning. I’ve heard you have to pull the engine to get the tanks out of the 424.
Hailing port is Bristol RI but boat is currently parked in the woods for a pretty complete redo. Did like Pete Dubler and had my boat trucked closer to home for the job. Currently in the woods in north FL coincidentally about 5 miles from the Hunter boat plant.
Very familiar with PB Blaster. Must have 3-4 cans between the house and the boat but haven’t tried it on tools and rust removing. Thanks for the tip. Duck tape I buy by the mile. You forgot one essential repair tool, epoxy. If you can’t stick it together with duck tape then glue it. I’m a bit more sophisticated in my repair techniques. I also use pliers and hammers. I now have two sets of pliers. Had to get a new pair for metric nuts.
The problem with the switch isn’t sticking or bad contacts, it’s just worn out. The key is so loose in the slot it’s ready to fall out and it takes a bit of jiggling to get it to line up with the tumblers and turn. So time for the new key.
If you like old radios you might like the one on my desk. Not a collector’s item but is an old wood case Firestone that belonged to my grandmother. It must be at least 75 years old.
Best
Skip@RichCarter wrote:
Skip,
No problem about the 422. I think the hulls come out of the same mold. What is your home port?I’ve had very good success fixing bad switches using a secret switch cleaner that I discovered many years ago. It’s called PB-Blaster and can be purchased in almost any hardware store. Just spray a bit in the switch and let is sit for about 5 minutes. Then operate the switch a few times and presto, just like new! Try squirting a bit of PB-blaster in the ignition key-hole to see if that fixes your switch. There’s only one problem with this stuff. Some switches use a fiber board that absorbs oil and swells when exposed to PB-Blaster. Deoxit makes a better cleaner but is hard to find and very expensive. Deoxit isn’t oil based and won’t harm these switches. I think most modern stuff isn’t effected by the oil based cleaner. Switches prior to about 1975 might not like the stuff however. I restore old vacuum tube radios and use Deoxit on them.
I also use PB-Blaster on my wrenches and other various tools. It keeps them from rusting and removes whatever rust has accumulated. I spray a bit on and work it into whatever moving parts are in there. Then I wipe them down and put them back in the tool box. This is probably why I havn’t had any issues with the Gear Wrench Quad-Boxes I bragged about in an earlier message.
Don’t spray PB-Blaster on your winch or starter motor brushes. It’s flamable. It will clean the brushes pretty well, but might catch on fire (ask me how I know). At least the fire is small and easy to contain.
WD-40 is not very useful but is much more popular. I have no idea how they stay in business. The only use I can find for the stuff is spraying down my outboard motor engine during winter lay-up.
Between PB-Blaster and Duck-tape, there’s almost nothin I can’t fix 🙂
Hope this helps.
Rich -
422 or 424, it’s all the same to us!
Thanks. Glad I can stay. :>)
Ok, if you have the standard Westerbeke engine panel with keyswitch, glow
plug button, and start button AND you have to hold the glow plug button as
well as the start button to start the engine then you only need the off and
on part of the starter switch. Nothing gets connected to the start
terminal. Behind the panel or near the engine there is a relay that powers
the glow plugs.My panel only has the ignition switch. No separate button for the glow plugs. Just push in against a spring and hold. This sends power to a solenoid on the block.
As far as the alarm goes, you connect it in parallel to the idiot light.
Thanks. Another little item on the list.
I would say that if your current switch works and you have a direct
replacement the easiest thing to do is to replace it.That’s what I’m thinking as well.
On the W58, the fuel solenoid is energized whenever the ignition switch is
on.Bob 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀
-
@dave jones wrote:
Skip,
We have the Westerbeke 58 and have the same setup that you do. A key
switch With off-on-start positions with the on position having a
momentary push to preheat feature. Ours is mounted on the aft bulkhead
just inside the companionway. I may have a spare but it would be on the
boat under three feet of snow right now. i believe Westerbeke still has
the switches available, but that would of course be at Westerbeke
prices. I doubt that the solenoid would draw more than an amp or so,
its not that large ,so the Cole Hersee switches would probably do fine.Dave
Thanks Dave. If that switch was $300 instead of $30 I might ask you to get your snow shovel. But for $30 you’re safe.
I’m pretty sure the Cole Hersee will work but they seem to have a few options and their catalog isn’t exactly clear on the specs for some. I think the M 832 will do it.
-
This is simple: Cole Hersee switches M-550, M-550-14, M-711, M-832 and
M-850.Use this link to see which one fits best:
http://www.colehersee.com/home/grid/cat/88/Bob
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:21 PM, skipmac wrote:
The old switch is about shot and want to replace it but have trouble with
the selection.The existing switch has off/on/crank and a push to engage the glowplugs
momentary position. I have found plenty of switches with
off/on/acc/crank and similar but the only ones I found with a momentary
function were for a carburetor choke and not sure if they would handle the
amperage for the glow plug solenoid.Anyone know a model number for the proper Cole Hersey or similar switch,
preferably a marine grade, water resistant and such.Thanks
Skip_______________________________________________
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—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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