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Bob,
I was down in the bilge looking for a good way to mount four batteries down there when I noticed a small puddle of water about 10 inches forward of where the bilge begins to level out. I got a paper towel and wiped it clean. We went to five guys for lunch and did some shopping and went back to the boat. When I opened the hatch to the bilge I noticed another small (less than a 1/4 tea spoon) puddle. I thought to myself, “Damn! I have a leaking boat!!” This explains why I have always had a little water in the bilge.
I understand that this area is a 424 weak point. What should I do to fix this problem properly?
Lee
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I’m not clear on where in the bilge you’re talking about, Lee. Where
does the bilge begin to level out? Are you talking about the deep sump
area aft, somewhere forward near the mainmast step, or the stepped-down
flat area in between?Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Quote:
Original Message
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Hi Lee,
Neither am I. I have water in the bilge all the time. It comes from all
over the place. But the pumps keep it under control. The weak spot,
however, is between the ballast and the aft end of the keel. There’s next
to nothing there and if you’ve been blocked there, you’ve been compromised.
It’s really a bit stupid to make such a weak spot.Bob
On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:I’m not clear on where in the bilge you’re talking about, Lee. Where
does the bilge begin to level out? Are you talking about the deep sump
area aft, somewhere forward near the mainmast step, or the stepped-down
flat area in between?Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Quote:
Original Message
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Tor
I was talking about the deep sump area aft. I’ve been off the boat for about three hours and there was maybe 5-10 drops of water down there. Not much, but I think any leak through the hull is too much. I would really appreciate any suggestions on what I should do to fix this situation?
Lee
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Has it rained lately where you are? Small amounts of rainwater trickle
into Silverheels’ sump bottom when it pours.If not, the likely culprits are (a) the prop shaft stuffing box, (b) the
rudder stuffing box, or (c) one of the aft thru-hull
hoses/fittings/related systems (i.e., V-drive, engine, etc).Suggest you clean and dry the bilge sump completely. Paint it white if
you haven’t already. Then see where the water’s coming from.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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No rain. I can see exactly where the water is penetrating the interior of the hull. I sat and watched it ever so sloooooly create a tiny puddle.What scares me if the fact that I don’t know where the water is penetrating the exterior of the hull.
Lee
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Hmm…I guess I would have to challenge that. My boat is always in the
water, yet the bilge pump rarely works (I have spent up to a month aboard
without hearing the pump working even once). I would have to think that any
even a tiny leak would increase over time due to pressure, even more so with
sailing or motoring. We are talking here about a flaw in the hull….to me
that is a serious issue! Even with a boat sitting stationary at the slip
for 12 years I would expect to see an increase; I use the boat a lot, and I
have NOT seen a change . I have pumped out the bilge a couple of times,
and it stays dry…until it rains. Just my two cents.Mary E. Springhorn
P424, Hull #61, Sailing out of Bellingham, WA
Original Message
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Did you have your water pressure on? I had a pin hole leak in one of the tubings to the shower and behind the shower.I only discovered it when it got bad enough to make a hissing noise.Figure out if the leak is city water or salt water.I agree with “Tonto” that with a prop shaft penetrating the hull,a rudder post,thru hulls,itis probably a leakyfitting as opposed to a leak in the hull or keel.All my leaks adding water to the bilge have been either rain water,water pressure system,or tubing connections bringing salt water into the boat for the head,AC,or Refrig cooling,or over filling the water tanks.
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Joe Shimkonis
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If you can actually see water seeping through the fiberglass, then I
guess the leak is on the other (outer) side of that spot. Hard to
imagine. Are you sure it’s not coming from one of those other places, or
maybe a leaking thru-hull mounting base?
Original Message
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The water is definitely oozing up through the hull.
My greatest fear is that this portion of the hull has been compromised in some way. But looking back I believe the hull has been leaking since we bought the boat in 2006.
Bob Fine seems to think I should not worry about it.
Lee
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Even hull condensation will work its way down to the bilge.
On 10/8/2011 5:27 PM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:Has it rained lately where you are? Small amounts of rainwater trickle
into Silverheels’ sump bottom when it pours.If not, the likely culprits are (a) the prop shaft stuffing box, (b) the
rudder stuffing box, or (c) one of the aft thru-hull
hoses/fittings/related systems (i.e., V-drive, engine, etc).Suggest you clean and dry the bilge sump completely. Paint it white if
you haven’t already. Then see where the water’s coming from.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Original Message
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Good thinking Joe.
Taste the water. Is it fresh (chlorinated) or salty?
On 10/8/2011 6:16 PM, joe shimkonis wrote:
Quote:Did you have your water pressure on? I had a pin hole leak in one of the tubings to the shower and behind the shower.I only discovered it when it got bad enough to make a hissing noise.Figure out if the leak is city water or salt water.I agree with “Tonto” that with a prop shaft penetrating the hull,a rudder post,thru hulls,itis probably a leakyfitting as opposed to a leak in the hull or keel.All my leaks adding water to the bilge have been either rain water,water pressure system,or tubing connections bringing salt water into the boat for the head,AC,or Refrig cooling,or over filling the water tanks.________________________________
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A laminar flow of water can pool or drip from a rough spot, nib, or dent
and appear to be coming from that spot.I too am skeptical of it flowing all the way through the hull unless
there was an errant drill bit to blame… (I do know a fellow who did
drill a hole in the bottom of his boat while installing the sole and
working outboard within the boat…. a story he loves to tell.On 10/8/2011 6:24 PM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:If you can actually see water seeping through the fiberglass, then I
guess the leak is on the other (outer) side of that spot. Hard to
imagine. Are you sure it’s not coming from one of those other places, or
maybe a leaking thru-hull mounting base?
Original Message
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Maybe there was a barrel of vodka glassed into your keel and its leaking!
Now you can drink it!-p
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s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.com | @DeepPlayaOn Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 7:38 PM, Pete Dubler wrote:
Quote:Good thinking Joe.Taste the water. Is it fresh (chlorinated) or salty?
On 10/8/2011 6:16 PM, joe shimkonis wrote:
Quote:Did you have your water pressure on? I had a pin hole leak in one of the
tubings to the shower and behind the shower.I only discovered it when it got
bad enough to make a hissing noise.Figure out if the leak is city water or
salt water.I agree with “Tonto” that with a prop shaft penetrating the
hull,a rudder post,thru hulls,itis probably a leakyfitting as opposed to a
leak in the hull or keel.All my leaks adding water to the bilge have been
either rain water,water pressure system,or tubing connections bringing salt
water into the boat for the head,AC,or Refrig cooling,or over filling the
water tanks.______________________________**__
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Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
The section of keel between the aft edge and the ballast is very weak. Of
it’s leaking there as mine was the repair is simple but messy requiring
hauling the boat and working on it in the slings.Bob
I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Oct 8, 2011 10:44 PM, “Patrick "Peaboy" Walters” <
> wrote:Maybe there was a barrel of vodka glassed into your keel and its leaking!
Now you can drink it!-p
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s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.com | @DeepPlayaOn Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 7:38 PM, Pete Dubler wrote:
Good thinking Joe.
Taste the water. Is it fresh (chlorinated) or salty?
On 10/8/2011 6:16 PM, joe shimkonis wrote:
Did you have your water pressure on? I had a pin hole leak in one of the
tubings to the shower and behind the shower.I only discovered it when itgot
bad enough to make a hissing noise.Figure out if the leak is city water
or
salt water.I agree with “Tonto” that with a prop shaft penetrating the
hull,a rudder post,thru hulls,itis probably a leakyfitting as opposed toa
leak in the hull or keel.All my leaks adding water to the bilge have
been
either rain water,water pressure system,or tubing connections bringing
salt
water into the boat for the head,AC,or Refrig cooling,or over filling
the
Quote:Quote:water tanks.______________________________**__
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Bob,
Your boat leaked through the fiberglass of the keel’s foot, just abaft
the ballast? No hole or crack? Water just seeped through the layers of
‘glass? How thin was it at that point?Quote:
Original Message
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When mine leaked, it was about 1/2 inch and there is a seam there from the
forms. It is, traditionally a weak spot. I didn’t know how weak until I had
to grind mine out. I found the leak from the inside out.Bob
I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Oct 9, 2011 7:22 AM, “Silverheels” wrote:Quote:Bob,Your boat leaked through the fiberglass of the keel’s foot, just abaft
the ballast? No hole or crack? Water just seeped through the layers of
‘glass? How thin was it at that point?Quote:
Original Message
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I believe you, Bob, but I still can’t imagine water seeping through 1/2″
of fiberglass. (BTW, my boat, #17, seems to be thicker than that at that
point.) Perhaps that seam you mention opened up to become a crack. Not
good, but I guess as long as the ballast doesn’t slip out through it
we’ll make it to port.🙂
Original Message
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I wouldn’t be surprised if yours was thicker. I notice newer 424s have lots
of differences that sometimes are for the better, sometimes not. Thicker
keels are better, in my opinion.I forget Lee’s hull number.
Bob
I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Oct 9, 2011 8:06 AM, “Silverheels” wrote:Quote:I believe you, Bob, but I still can’t imagine water seeping through 1/2″
of fiberglass. (BTW, my boat, #17, seems to be thicker than that at that
point.) Perhaps that seam you mention opened up to become a crack. Not
good, but I guess as long as the ballast doesn’t slip out through it
we’ll make it to port.🙂
Original Message
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Hi Lee,
Here’s what I did – I was at a yard that did no launching on weekends so
they hung Pelican on Friday afternoon. First, I ground out the soft
fiberglass at the base of the keel behind the ballast until I got to dry
glass laminate – I ground it in a ‘V’ shape with the narrow end up. The
width of the hole inside the boat was about 1″ for a distance of about 2
feet, or most of the bottom of the sump. The width at the outside was about
4″ and I ground another few inches around the hole.Then, I put one layer of cloth across the hole and let it set up so I didn’t
end up pushing all the stuff into the bilge. After that, I just laid up
layer after layer until it was even with the bottom outside. Then I
overlaid it in a couple of layers that overlapped edges I ground beyond the
hole.After it all set up, I sanded it smooth, painted and went into the water.
It took two days to do the job mostly because I had to wait between layers
for set up.It’s not hard, just time consuming.
Bob
On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 8:44 AM, Lee Yonkers wrote:
Quote:Bob,
I’d like to know just what you had to do to make the repair.
I have hull number 43.Lee
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Bob,
I’m sure what you did is strong enough, but why not also build up some
‘glass on the inside, on the floor of the sump?Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Quote:
Original Message
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Interesting question. Because I can’t reach it. If I could, I’d put a layer
of woven roving there.Bob
I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Oct 9, 2011 11:19 AM, “Silverheels” wrote:Quote:Bob,I’m sure what you did is strong enough, but why not also build up some
‘glass on the inside, on the floor of the sump?Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Quote:
Original Message
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It appears that’s what Pearson did in #17. I can’t tell how thick it is
on the sump bottom, but I did install a drain plug about 1-1/2″ up and
1-1/2″ aft of the (ballast) vertical bulkhead there. Where I drilled for
that, the ‘glass is about 1″ thick. From there down, the roving appears
to thicken inside as it rounds the turn from vertical to horizontal and
spreads across the bottom. I think the bottom is much thicker than 1″,
but I don’t know for sure.In terms of fiberglass thickness and overall displacement, I find the
424 a bit on the light side. But then, I don’t think Pearson was trying
to produce a blue water passagemaker. Rather, he was building and
selling big weekenders intended to perform decently in New England’s
light summer breezes. Am I wrong?Anyway, surely you could build up some roving inside that spot if you
felt it necessary. Awkward and messy, but possible.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Original Message
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Tor, you are probably correct. As I understand the boat was built with an eye on the charter industry being a large customer and wasn’t intended to compete with the serious off shore boats being made at the time.
That area on the aft end of the keel is weak spot on the boat. I’m in the process of some repairs in that area as well. The bottom of the keel in the well is about an inch thick. The sides of the keel about 6 inches up from the bottom are anywhere from 5/16 to 1/2 inch thick.
The bottom leak you guys are describing is likely from bilge water getting into the laminate and causing deterioration or impact or crush damage from the outside with the same results. A repair will only be effective if all the wet laminate is removed. It really cannot be done from the inside.
I spoke with a gentleman that worked in the Pearson plant in the 80s and he told me the keel was being damaged so often by backing into things that they had a wedge kit available that was nothing more than a solid mold that you fit into the bottom aft section after cutting out the damaged bottom of keel well with a saw.
Whether or not this is true I can’t say but I do know first hand that this location can stand some improvement.Chuck
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