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Thatcher,
Earlier you wrote, “The only down side to this (mizzen-mounted wind generator) installation is that I wanted to have a mizzen staysail, but cannot without “caging” the windmill.”
I believe many wind generators, if not all, can be braked by crossing the connections. My Air-X came with a shutoff switch for this purpose, to enable the user to stop the blades from spinning from deck level. I have a mizzen staysail and plan to fly it when conditions permit. This is normally on a reach in light airs, so the wind generator wouldn’t be putting out much charge anyway. I’ll just stop the blades when flying that sail. Perhaps you can do the same with your setup.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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I have a bicycle brake on my four winds. those big ol’ blades scare me though. what is the configuration and weight of that mizzen staysail, tor?
-Adam Silverstein-iPhone (“trust everyone but cut the cards”)
On Nov 14, 2008, at 2:30 PM, “Silver Heels” < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Thatcher,Earlier you wrote, “The only down side to this (mizzen-mounted wind generator) installation is that I wanted to have a mizzen staysail, but cannot without “caging” the windmill.”
I believe many wind generators, if not all, can be braked by crossing the connections. My Air-X came with a shutoff switch for this purpose, to enable the user to stop the blades from spinning from deck level. I have a mizzen staysail and plan to fly it when conditions permit. This is normally on a reach in light airs, so the wind generator wouldn’t be putting out much charge anyway. I’ll just stop the blades when flying that sail. Perhaps you can do the same with your setup.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Hey Adam,
Where/how is your Four Winds mounted? With a wind generator set up on the mizzen mast as mine is, it seems like a hand brake could be awkward. I’d like a way to physically, mechanically tie off the blades when I don’t want them spinning, but I’m not going to shimmy up the mast to do it, or even climb up on ladder steps underway if I can avoid it. So I’m counting on the electric brake to do the stopping for me. Once I have the unit up and operating later this winter I’ll let you know how it works out.
I don’t know the “configuration” of my mizzen staysail, or the weight. Goggle it or look at some photos of 424’s flying one and you’ll see the shape and general placement. They’re always lightweight, maybe a little heavier than spinnakers and sometimes as colorful. I flew one on each of two previous boats I had. A mizzen staysail is easy to handle, fun to fly and can give you another knot on a light-air reach.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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On 11/14/08 1:51 PM, Silver Heels wrote :
I’d like a way to physically, mechanically tie off the blades when I don’t
want them spinning, but I’m not going to shimmy up the mast to do it, or even
climb up on ladder steps underway if I can avoid it.Who ee doggy, looks like ya¹ll might be taken some of them thar lasso¹n
classes there cowboy 🙂
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the turbine is mounted on a tubular frame fwd of the mizzen just above
the spreaders. the brake is controlled by a line leading down to just
above the winches. I shimmy not; neither do I lasso. yea and verily.
some models can be controlled by their own magnets too. mine bumps on
using the controller and can be reversed to slow it.tor: configuration meant shape and size, ie, symmetrical or not; luff
length. head-to-sheave or shorter. I have seen pictures, but if I
want the sailmaker to cut me one, I’d prefer to give something more
specific.-Adam Silverstein-iPhone
(“trust everyone but cut the cards”)On Nov 14, 2008, at 8:24 PM, Aaron Lynch <> wrote:
On 11/14/08 1:51 PM, Silver Heels wrote :
I’d like a way to physically, mechanically tie off the blades when
I don’t
want them spinning, but I’m not going to shimmy up the mast to do
it, or even
climb up on ladder steps underway if I can avoid it.Who ee doggy, looks like ya’ll might be taken some of them thar lass
o’n
classes there cowboy 🙂
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Hi Adam,
Send Tor a picture of your frame and stuff that mounts and controls your wind generator. I'm pretty sure you don't want a mizzen staysail with that arrangement. It looks like a disaster waiting to happen, but I'm leery of such things. I am, however, impressed with your wind generator – it's big, it's powerful, and it's really quiet. It would be the one I'd get if I weren't thoroughly afraid of high speed, sharp, rotating machinery.
If you want to increase the speed and power of the boat simply, add a staysail. Not only does it increase speed on normal days by 1 to 1.5 knots but it provides a mounting point for a storm jib. When you have to shorten sail, you won't be flying the mizzen staysail.
For light air, add yourself an asymmetrical spinnaker, and go to town!
Bob
On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 7:54 AM, adam silverstein < ([email][/email])> wrote:
the turbine is mounted on a tubular frame fwd of the mizzen just above the spreaders. the brake is controlled by a line leading down to just above the winches. I shimmy not; neither do I lasso. yea and verily. some models can be controlled by their own magnets too. mine bumps on using the controller and can be reversed to slow it.
tor: configuration meant shape and size, ie, symmetrical or not; luff length. head-to-sheave or shorter. I have seen pictures, but if I want the sailmaker to cut me one, I'd prefer to give something more specific.
-Adam Silverstein-iPhone
(“trust everyone but cut the cards”)On Nov 14, 2008, at 8:24 PM, Aaron Lynch < ([email][/email])> wrote:
On 11/14/08 1:51 PM, Silver Heels wrote :
I'd like a way to physically, mechanically tie off the blades when I don't
want them spinning, but I'm not going to shimmy up the mast to do it, or even
climb up on ladder steps underway if I can avoid it.Who ee doggy, looks like ya’ll might be taken some of them thar lasso’n
classes there cowboy 🙂
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
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Yeah, but the mizzen staysail looks so cool flying.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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picture forthcoming. I am in agreement re: flying billowy things near that giant fan.
given my proclivity for broken boat racing in 25kn+, and seeing those that have been added, I will try to add the Solent this winter. I have a big asymm. it has 20 patches and looks like an old sock, but whatever.
-Adam Silverstein-iPhone (“trust everyone but cut the cards”)
On Nov 15, 2008, at 8:09 AM, “Robert Fine” < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi Adam,
Send Tor a picture of your frame and stuff that mounts and controls your wind generator. I’m pretty sure you don’t want a mizzen staysail with that arrangement. It looks like a disaster waiting to happen, but I’m leery of such things. I am, however, impressed with your wind generator – it’s big, it’s powerful, and it’s really quiet. It would be the one I’d get if I weren’t thoroughly afraid of high speed, sharp, rotating machinery.
If you want to increase the speed and power of the boat simply, add a staysail. Not only does it increase speed on normal days by 1 to 1.5 knots but it provides a mounting point for a storm jib. When you have to shorten sail, you won’t be flying the mizzen staysail.
For light air, add yourself an asymmetrical spinnaker, and go to town!
Bob
On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 7:54 AM, adam silverstein <()> wrote:
the turbine is mounted on a tubular frame fwd of the mizzen just above the spreaders. the brake is controlled by a line leading down to just above the winches. I shimmy not; neither do I lasso. yea and verily. some models can be controlled by their own magnets too. mine bumps on using the controller and can be reversed to slow it.
tor: configuration meant shape and size, ie, symmetrical or not; luff length. head-to-sheave or shorter. I have seen pictures, but if I want the sailmaker to cut me one, I’d prefer to give something more specific.
-Adam Silverstein-iPhone
(“trust everyone but cut the cards”)On Nov 14, 2008, at 8:24 PM, Aaron Lynch <()> wrote:
On 11/14/08 1:51 PM, Silver Heels wrote :
I’d like a way to physically, mechanically tie off the blades when I don’t
want them spinning, but I’m not going to shimmy up the mast to do it, or even
climb up on ladder steps underway if I can avoid it.Who ee doggy, looks like ya’ll might be taken some of them thar lasso’n
classes there cowboy 🙂
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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That's one nice thing about the 424 – it laughs at 25+ kt winds!
On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 9:45 AM, adam silverstein < ([email][/email])> wrote:
picture forthcoming. I am in agreement re: flying billowy things near that giant fan.
given my proclivity for broken boat racing in 25kn+, and seeing those that have been added, I will try to add the Solent this winter. I have a big asymm. it has 20 patches and looks like an old sock, but whatever.
-Adam Silverstein-iPhone (“trust everyone but cut the cards”)
On Nov 15, 2008, at 8:09 AM, “Robert Fine” < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi Adam,
Send Tor a picture of your frame and stuff that mounts and controls your wind generator. I'm pretty sure you don't want a mizzen staysail with that arrangement. It looks like a disaster waiting to happen, but I'm leery of such things. I am, however, impressed with your wind generator – it's big, it's powerful, and it's really quiet. It would be the one I'd get if I weren't thoroughly afraid of high speed, sharp, rotating machinery.
If you want to increase the speed and power of the boat simply, add a staysail. Not only does it increase speed on normal days by 1 to 1.5 knots but it provides a mounting point for a storm jib. When you have to shorten sail, you won't be flying the mizzen staysail.
For light air, add yourself an asymmetrical spinnaker, and go to town!
Bob
On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 7:54 AM, adam silverstein < ([email][/email]) ([email][/email])> wrote:
the turbine is mounted on a tubular frame fwd of the mizzen just above the spreaders. the brake is controlled by a line leading down to just above the winches. I shimmy not; neither do I lasso. yea and verily. some models can be controlled by their own magnets too. mine bumps on using the controller and can be reversed to slow it.
tor: configuration meant shape and size, ie, symmetrical or not; luff length. head-to-sheave or shorter. I have seen pictures, but if I want the sailmaker to cut me one, I'd prefer to give something more specific.
-Adam Silverstein-iPhone
(“trust everyone but cut the cards”)On Nov 14, 2008, at 8:24 PM, Aaron Lynch < ([email][/email]) ([email][/email])> wrote:
On 11/14/08 1:51 PM, Silver Heels wrote :
I'd like a way to physically, mechanically tie off the blades when I don't
want them spinning, but I'm not going to shimmy up the mast to do it, or even
climb up on ladder steps underway if I can avoid it.Who ee doggy, looks like ya'll might be taken some of them thar lasso'n
classes there cowboy 🙂
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Tor
I have the Air X but sure cannot find the switch you refer to. And even when the wind is barely enough to turn the mill, the face articulates in to the wind because of the long rudder (aviation type) on the back of the housing. Because the blades point in to the wind better than the nose of a tail dragger airplane, even light air is an issue for me.
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Roger that
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Alan
Most riggers agree it wouldn’t be stable. It’s also inconsistent with Mfr.’s
warranty.Thatcher
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The riggers opinion would be arguable depending the exact installation, I suppose. I can not even begin to understand why the Marine Air-x would be inconsistent with the warranty being at the top of the mizzen, away from mnay other objects.
I have mine mounted the same as Jack Tylers and many many other Ketches.
alan— On Sun, 11/16/08, Thatcher Stone <> wrote:
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The warranty states it is valid only when unit is installed in accord with
manufacturer’s instructions. Instructions say, don’t put it on the top.
Brace it on a platform part way up.
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Thatcher,
I've been looking at the AIR-X for some time (procrastination is my middle name) and have been considering possible locations for one on Sarah. I've found no prohibition for mounting the unit on the top of a mast in the documentation I've been looking at. As a matter of fact their installation manual recommends you put it as high as possible. I saw lots of AIR-X units on sailboats in Europe, including Jack Tyler's 424, and nearly all of them on ketches were on the mizzen masthead. Jack's installation served a two-year cruise in the Caribbean and two Atlantic crossings. So I wouldn't have any concern for a proper installation at the mizzen head. The only down side is the need to put mast steps on the mizzen so one can climb to the masthead and secure the unit when extreme winds are anticipated.
Your information may be from an earlier model or set of installation procedures or I just missed it.John
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Thatcher Stone < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:The warranty states it is valid only when unit is installed in accord with
manufacturer's instructions. Instructions say, don't put it on the top.
Brace it on a platform part way up.
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John:
I really don’t want to argue with anyone about this, really I don’t. My data is from the PO who kept fastidious records dating from 1982. I am just reading what’s there. Doyle AND an experienced rigger told me the same thing. Put that all together and I am not going to do it. Please, feel free to proceed as you wish. All the best of luck.
T
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Thatcher,
Sorry if I sounded as if I was arguing that what you stated was not true, which was not my intention. Nor was I trying to convince you to change your mount. I was just trying to clarify an apparent discrepancy between the documents you have and those I have. Anyway, I should certainly be directing these questions to the manufacturer.John
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 11:44 PM, Thatcher Stone < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:John:I really don’t want to argue with anyone about this, really I don’t. My data is from the PO who kept fastidious records dating from 1982. I am just reading what’s there. Doyle AND an experienced rigger told me the same thing. Put that all together and I am not going to do it. Please, feel free to proceed as you wish. All the best of luck.
T
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No offense taken.
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