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If there is any additional information on pulling the W-58 and replacing the fuel tank, I would love to see it. I need to replace the fuel tank and am about to start this project.
Rudy
NakedmoonIn a message dated 11/8/2009 9:53:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, writes:
I read Rich’s and Jack’s pages on their repowering projects. Any other
advice out there on pulling the W-58 engine out (and the fuel tank)?Thanks,
Pete
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Pete,
Here’s something to consider when you re-power. While the original Westerbeke was still in my boat and running, I ran a couple of ads online advertising it for sale. Some guy came by to inspect it and see it run, which it still did admirably, and bought it on the spot for $1,800. A couple of weeks later, when it was pulled in preparation for putting in the new Yanmar, he came by the shop with a pickup truck and the mechanic simply lowered the old engine from the boat into the truck bed and away it went.
Granted, $1,800 is only 10-or-12% of the cost of the new engine, but it sure beats most other means of disposal. The trick is to show & sell it while it’s still in the boat so they can see that it runs (and doesn’t smoke, etc). Much easier than selling it when it’s sitting on cinder blocks alongside the garage.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Hi Rudy-
I second Tor’s advice, esp.if your W-58 is a good running engine. I bought the one on cinder blocks for $400, thinking just a few parts was worth that much. Turns out it is a good low hours engine with a fixable overheat problem. I’m slowly rebuilding it in the garage.
Plenty of threads on replacing the fuel tank. First step use a magnet to determine if you have steel or aluminum. Next, measure to see if the tank will clear the mizzen support beam.
Quent
Clairebuoyant #132 -
Pete
I could probably add a few comments to what’s posted on my notes.You can expect to damage one or more engine mounts when pulling the engine. The rubber gets soft when it ages. I suggest planning on replacing all four. You’ll probably also find that the engine pan flange has sagged. There are a couple of ways to fix this. The top flange has stringers glassed in on each side of the pan. If these were in contact with the underside of the flange I don’t think it would sag. You could try and insert some shims. I like the steel angle-iron flange I used. Since the nuts are welded to the underside it makes replacing the mounts pretty simple. No nuts to hold on the underside.
Just because Westerbeke used dark red paint is no reason to stick with the same color. A lighter color paint brightens the engine room and makes working on the engine easier. I used Caterpillar yellow.
While you have the fuel tank out, its easier to reach the underside of the pedestal for service.
Rich
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Thanks Rich!
wrote:
Quote:Pete
I could probably add a few comments to what’s posted on my notes.You can expect to damage one or more engine mounts when pulling the
engine. The rubber gets soft when it ages. I suggest planning on
replacing all four. You’ll probably also find that the engine pan
flange has sagged. There are a couple of ways to fix this. The top
flange has stringers glassed in on each side of the pan. If these
were in contact with the underside of the flange I don’t think it
would sag. You could try and insert some shims. I like the steel
angle-iron flange I used. Since the nuts are welded to the underside
it makes replacing the mounts pretty simple. No nuts to hold on the
underside.Just because Westerbeke used dark red paint is no reason to stick with
the same color. A lighter color paint brightens the engine room and
makes working on the engine easier. I used Caterpillar yellow.While you have the fuel tank out, its easier to reach the underside of
the pedestal for service.Rich
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Rudy, Florida Marine Tank (in North Carolina) has an updated CAD drawing of the 424 tank. It includes two access plates, the pick up relocated so it can be removed with out pulling the tank. The tank is 4 gallons smaller to make it easier to get in. I may have posted the drawing on the 424 org page… if not I can send you a copy.
Go to the 424 site and in the forum section do a search on fuel tank, there were a number of messages exchanged on this already.
ChuckOn Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 10:30 PM, < ([email][/email])> wrote:
If there is any additional information on pulling the W-58 and replacing the fuel tank, I would love to see it. I need to replace the fuel tank and am about to start this project.
Rudy
Nakedmoon
In a message dated 11/8/2009 9:53:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, () writes:Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Hi Chuck,
What material is the tank made of? Mine's steel and has some rust issues but doesn't leak yet. I'm going to Corroseal it to stop the rust, but of course there are places I can't get at.
Is the new tank replaceable without removing the engine? Or is that an impossibility?
Bob
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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Bob,
I know several past or present owners have replaced their tanks without removing the engines. I believe in all cases they moved the engine forward into the aft cabin, then moved it back after the tank was replaced. There should be one or more write ups of this on the P424 website.John
BTW, are you still in Surf City? I've never anchored there. I always seem to arrive at this point in the ICW about dark and anchored at Sloop Pt, just off the ICW. Very shallow there, I'm sure my keel was touching the mud at low tide. Did you go into Surf City at Sloop Pt or are you at the marina next to the bridge?
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 7:45 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi Chuck,
What material is the tank made of? Mine's steel and has some rust issues but doesn't leak yet. I'm going to Corroseal it to stop the rust, but of course there are places I can't get at.
Is the new tank replaceable without removing the engine? Or is that an impossibility?
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
Follow me at: http://www.tinyurl.com/WhereIsBobFine—
Regards,
John Stevenson
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Bob,
I just checked your SPOT positions an realized you are in SC. Hunkered down to let the remains of IDA pass?On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 8:00 AM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Bob,
I know several past or present owners have replaced their tanks without removing the engines. I believe in all cases they moved the engine forward into the aft cabin, then moved it back after the tank was replaced. There should be one or more write ups of this on the P424 website.John
BTW, are you still in Surf City? I've never anchored there. I always seem to arrive at this point in the ICW about dark and anchored at Sloop Pt, just off the ICW. Very shallow there, I'm sure my keel was touching the mud at low tide. Did you go into Surf City at Sloop Pt or are you at the marina next to the bridge?
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 7:45 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi Chuck,
What material is the tank made of? Mine's steel and has some rust issues but doesn't leak yet. I'm going to Corroseal it to stop the rust, but of course there are places I can't get at.
Is the new tank replaceable without removing the engine? Or is that an impossibility?
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
Follow me at: http://www.tinyurl.com/WhereIsBobFine—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Regards,
John Stevenson
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Hi John,
Taking the engine off the beds and moving it is removing the engine as far as I'm concerned.
I went to the marina just north of the swing bridge. It was $1.25 per foot including electricity and they were nice as nice could be. There are several good restaurants around and an IGA within walking distance. The docks are new, the water is tasty, and the people on the other boats amazed at single-handers.
Now I'm anchored in Graham Creek about 26 miles north of Charleston. I have reservations there on the 14th, so I have to just noodle about until then. I have company coming on the boat and I have to do a delivery, so the boat will be there for 2 weeks or so.
Today or tomorrow I'll be moving to Whiteside Creek, about 11 miles from here.
Bob
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 8:00 AM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Bob,
I know several past or present owners have replaced their tanks without removing the engines. I believe in all cases they moved the engine forward into the aft cabin, then moved it back after the tank was replaced. There should be one or more write ups of this on the P424 website.John
BTW, are you still in Surf City? I've never anchored there. I always seem to arrive at this point in the ICW about dark and anchored at Sloop Pt, just off the ICW. Very shallow there, I'm sure my keel was touching the mud at low tide. Did you go into Surf City at Sloop Pt or are you at the marina next to the bridge?
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 7:45 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi Chuck,
What material is the tank made of? Mine's steel and has some rust issues but doesn't leak yet. I'm going to Corroseal it to stop the rust, but of course there are places I can't get at.
Is the new tank replaceable without removing the engine? Or is that an impossibility?
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
Follow me at: http://www.tinyurl.com/WhereIsBobFine—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
Follow me at: http://www.tinyurl.com/WhereIsBobFinePost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Is that what this is? I didn't realize you were checking my SPOT. Yup, it's just a little rainy and cloudy. Not bad, not much wind. We're waiting until high tide to decide if we're leaving today or not. Otherwise, the entrance to the creek is really thin.
It's very pleasant here. Good holding. Currents can run to 2-3 knots, though. Better have good ground tackle…
Bob
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 8:05 AM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Bob,
I just checked your SPOT positions an realized you are in SC. Hunkered down to let the remains of IDA pass?On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 8:00 AM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Bob,
I know several past or present owners have replaced their tanks without removing the engines. I believe in all cases they moved the engine forward into the aft cabin, then moved it back after the tank was replaced. There should be one or more write ups of this on the P424 website.John
BTW, are you still in Surf City? I've never anchored there. I always seem to arrive at this point in the ICW about dark and anchored at Sloop Pt, just off the ICW. Very shallow there, I'm sure my keel was touching the mud at low tide. Did you go into Surf City at Sloop Pt or are you at the marina next to the bridge?
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 7:45 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi Chuck,
What material is the tank made of? Mine's steel and has some rust issues but doesn't leak yet. I'm going to Corroseal it to stop the rust, but of course there are places I can't get at.
Is the new tank replaceable without removing the engine? Or is that an impossibility?
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
Follow me at: http://www.tinyurl.com/WhereIsBobFine—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
Follow me at: http://www.tinyurl.com/WhereIsBobFinePost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Aluminum. Unless you cut the sole out of the cockpit, no you cannot remove without first moving the engine. Removing the engine was easier than the tank.
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 7:45 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi Chuck,
What material is the tank made of? Mine's steel and has some rust issues but doesn't leak yet. I'm going to Corroseal it to stop the rust, but of course there are places I can't get at.
Is the new tank replaceable without removing the engine? Or is that an impossibility?
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
Follow me at: http://www.tinyurl.com/WhereIsBobFinePost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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If you have access to a small crane, pulling the engine isn’t a big deal. Its mostly simple wrench-work. It should take a matter of a few hours to disconnect everything and pull it. This makes a good winter project. I’ve lifted the engine from its mounts using a simple pulley arrangement tied to a beam across the bridge-deck without using a crane. It would be a simple matter to slide in some wooden beams and rollers to slide the engine forward with it lifted off its mounts. Refrigerator rollers would work. Its much easier and safer with a small crane however. Pulling it out of the boat gives you room to work around the engine compartment and complete access to the engine. I’ve rented a small crane by the hour from a local sign company. If you’re going through all the work to move the engine you might as well pull it out. You can expect to remove the alternator and possibly the starter depending on engine model number to make it narrow enough to pull through the hatch. If you decide to pull the engine, soak everything with PB-Blaster the week before you start taking stuff apart. It will make the job go easier.
Most 424 tanks are aluminum. I know of no way to replace the tank without pulling the engine. It might be possible to cut the existing tank out without pulling the engine. There is no way to replace it in the same position. You could replace it with a pair of saddle tanks, one on each side of the boat. If you didn’t put a fuel tank under the cockpit what else would you do with the space? There’s poor access otherwise it might be a good spot for a genset or battery bank.
With the V-drive arrangement, alignment of the engine isn’t critical when replacing. Still, there are alignment tolerances that should be observed. Read your V-drive manual for instructions.
Pulling the engine is something that you can expect to do more than once. I’ve pulled mine twice and lifted it in place twice to service engine mounts. Consider making it easier the next time around. Replace fasteners with stainless where possible. Do what you can to make access to nuts on the underside of the engine pan easier to get at.
Rich
BlackSheep #47
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Bob,
I seem to recall someone in this group saying they cut up the old tank with a Sawzall and removed it through the port/starboard cockpit lockers, then installed a pair of interconnected tanks (?) that went in the same way. The cutting/removal part struck me as a job to farm out!
Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Thanks Chuck
Chuck Ruble wrote:
Rudy, Florida Marine Tank (in North Carolina) has an updated CAD
drawing of the 424 tank. It includes two access plates, the pick up
relocated so it can be removed with out pulling the tank. The tank is
4 gallons smaller to make it easier to get in. I may have posted the
drawing on the 424 org page… if not I can send you a copy.Go to the 424 site and in the forum section do a search on fuel tank,
there were a number of messages exchanged on this already.Chuck
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 10:30 PM, <
If there is any additional information on pulling the W-58 and
replacing the fuel tank, I would love to see it. I need to
replace the fuel tank and am about to start this project.Rudy
NakedmoonIn a message dated 11/8/2009 9:53:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
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Tor – Was that your BBQ on fire Saturday night in Beaufort?
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Thank You,
Mike BogieBogie Hardware, Inc.
800-278-3309 or Fax 800-590-9659
() or ()
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Hi Tor,
That was what I was actually thinking – mine's steel. Maybe newer 424s had aluminum. I had a friend that replaced his with HDPE – I love that stuff and it lasts forever. The downside, of course, is the connections and the seams. Not user friendly.
I can see a saddle tank arrangement, either split port and starboard or even top and bottom.
I only ask this because someday I know I'll have to do the job and the thought of moving the engine is appalling to me.
In case you want to know, currently anchored in Whiteside Creek, about 12 miles north of Charleston. I don't want to be anchored in Charleston Harbor when the fronts come through.
More later!
Thanks, Rich, you are far more intrepid than I when it comes to moving engines. At least when moving my engine… Yours or someone else's, I'm good to go…
Bob
PS Tor was that your barbeque?
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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That’s correct-I had Deaton go thru the Port cockpit and saw zaw the old tank-took a day-it left the cradle completely intact and as it dried out quickly we ordered 2 new tanks [smaller] that we refit also thru the port cockpit.Made from same Florida mafgr and original-just narrower-The tanks have separate fill systems and gauges-total 56 gallons.Avoided pulling the engine.
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