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I have a pretty traditional looking stuffing box and I’m curious if any of you have upgradedswapped out to a newer dripless type seal or if you have any particular comments about that.
I have the shaft out so at a minimum I’m going to repack it and I figure if it’s worth upgrading now would be the time, but as with everything I’m interested in hearing the pros and cons from any who have gone before.
Thanks,
-p—-
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
Patrick,
At the recommendation of the guys at our marina, who deal with some very large motor vessels, I replaced my traditional stuffing box with the SureSeal system from TidesMarine two seasons ago.
Easy Install. No regrets. No problems.http://www.tidesmarine.com/shaft-seals.html
Rick
EclipseOn Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 6:48 AM, Patrick Walters < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I have a pretty traditional looking stuffing box and I'm curious if any of you have upgradedswapped out to a newer dripless type seal or if you have any particular comments about that.
I have the shaft out so at a minimum I'm going to repack it and I figure if it's worth upgrading now would be the time, but as with everything I'm interested in hearing the pros and cons from any who have gone before.
Thanks,
-p—-
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Patrick
I almost forgot… I believe it was Evan Starzinger who gave this product his highest rating when reviewing gear.
RickOn Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 6:48 AM, Patrick Walters < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I have a pretty traditional looking stuffing box and I'm curious if any of you have upgradedswapped out to a newer dripless type seal or if you have any particular comments about that.
I have the shaft out so at a minimum I'm going to repack it and I figure if it's worth upgrading now would be the time, but as with everything I'm interested in hearing the pros and cons from any who have gone before.
Thanks,
-p—-
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Patrick,
I replaced my stuffing box with a PSS seal in 2001. No regrets, but I thought I had a leaking seal and had great difficulty getting a wrench on it. So I had the seal replaced by the boat yard when it was hauled. I had a similar seal on my previous boat for about 15 years.
They work fine, but I must admit they are in many ways a solution looking for a problem. The traditional stuffing box is hard to beat.
If I were to do it again, I probably would have stayed with the traditional stuffing box, but if I decided to go dripless it would probably be the TidesMarine product rather than the PSS. With the TM product you can fit a spare bellows on the shaft. No need to pull the shaft if the bellows fails.u, Dec 17, 2009 at 7:27 AM, Rick Dugger < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Patrick,
At the recommendation of the guys at our marina, who deal with some very large motor vessels, I replaced my traditional stuffing box with the SureSeal system from TidesMarine two seasons ago.
Easy Install. No regrets. No problems.http://www.tidesmarine.com/shaft-seals.html
Rick
EclipseOn Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 6:48 AM, Patrick Walters < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I have a pretty traditional looking stuffing box and I'm curious if any of you have upgradedswapped out to a newer dripless type seal or if you have any particular comments about that.
I have the shaft out so at a minimum I'm going to repack it and I figure if it's worth upgrading now would be the time, but as with everything I'm interested in hearing the pros and cons from any who have gone before.
Thanks,
-p—-
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.com—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Patrick, consider the condition of the shaft, current alignment and can you separate the coupler from the shaft. What I see often is a worn shaft that won't come out of the coupling. The easy solution is to cut it. Don''t waste the time fighting with it. A new 1.5 inch Aquamet 22 shaft, 4″ coupler, cut less and associated machining will be around 3K installed.
If the shaft shows wear spec it. Anything past .003 is out of tolerance. I attached a close of up a worn shaft that exhibits crevice corrosion. These usually snap when they get thrown into a hard reverse situation. The end view displays how far down inside the shaft the problem really was.
I've seen both types, the PYI product requires proper alignment more so than the Sure Seal. The PYI will leak if there is a problem with alignment at the outset. The Sure Seal will not leak initially but will wear out prematurely if not properly aligned.
If you go with the Sure Seal get an extra bearing carrier or two and you can pre-load new seals on the shaft, allowing them to be moved down the shaft and into place without removing the shaft. I had a PYI on my last boat and was very happy with it.
I'm thinking of replacing my box and maybe adding an aquadrive into the mix. Proper shaft prep is key on either install.Lastly, ABYC does not recognize the graphite flax. Dissimilar metals. Use traditional or teflon flax if you stick with the old box.
Chuck
On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 6:48 AM, Patrick Walters < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I have a pretty traditional looking stuffing box and I'm curious if any of you have upgradedswapped out to a newer dripless type seal or if you have any particular comments about that.
I have the shaft out so at a minimum I'm going to repack it and I figure if it's worth upgrading now would be the time, but as with everything I'm interested in hearing the pros and cons from any who have gone before.
Thanks,
-p—-
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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I’m have a drippless one put in this winter. I had to pull the V-drive, so I decided to replace the stuffing box as well as the cutlass bearing.
I’ll let you know how it turns out.
John
Indulgence— On Thu, 12/17/09, Patrick Walters <> wrote:
Quote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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I put some of that moldable dripless teflon packing in a couple of years back and have mixed feelings about it. If I adjust the stuffing box at regular intervals I can get it down to a slow drip as regular packing, but I’ve never been able to get it dry. maybe I’m afraid of overtightening it. There are two problems with a leaky stuffing box, the obvious problem of water in the bilge and the not so obvious result of having salt water sprayed all over the area between the engine and v-drive. At a minimum, the v-drive jack-shaft suffers.
There are reported reliability problems with dripless seals and then there is the expense. At the time I last serviced the drive train, I replaced everything and expenses went out of control. I wasn’t interested in spending another few hundred on a dripless seal. I may switch over one of these days. Interesting article on the general subject
http://seagrant.uaf.edu/bookstore/boatkeeper/dripless-seals.pdfRich
Original Message
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I have had the PSS dripless on two boats now. I think it’s the greastest thing since sliced toast. Just have to remember to burp the air out of it when you launch the boat if it’s been out of the water. Never had any issues with either intstallations.
I did the one on the 424 3 years ago when I replaced the shaft.
alan
sv
UNABATED— On Thu, 12/17/09, <> wrote:
Quote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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I will now add my two cents.
Any shaft seal system that requires removing the shaft for service is a disaster waiting to happen. No only will it eventually leak, but you'll require a haul out to fix it. If it leaks or fails at sea, you're screwed.
A traditional packing gland with graphite packing not only runs cooler, but can run dry. Teflon packing can't run dry and the teflon actually will creep towards the rotation. I don't really like it.
From my perspective, simpler is better.
Bob
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
Follow me at: http://www.tinyurl.com/WhereIsBobFinePost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Has anyone tried using Gore GFO Packing. It sounds pretty good to me , but ???
http://www.emarineinc.com/products/gfopacking/packing.html
http://www.gore.com/MungoBlobs/1019/592/GIS%206582%20GFO%20DS.pdf
Paul
Boundless #28Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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I’ll mention what Chuck mentioned is that graphite packing is not allowed by the ABYC. Graphite is very noble and could cause an electrolosis problem on your shaft. I read this in Nigel Calder’s book as well last night.
-p
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s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comFrom: “Robert Fine” <>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 9:41 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Shaft SealI will now add my two cents.
Any shaft seal system that requires removing the shaft for service is a disaster waiting to happen. No only will it eventually leak, but you’ll require a haul out to fix it. If it leaks or fails at sea, you’re screwed.
A traditional packing gland with graphite packing not only runs cooler, but can run dry. Teflon packing can’t run dry and the teflon actually will creep towards the rotation. I don’t really like it.
From my perspective, simpler is better.
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
Follow me at: http://www.tinyurl.com/WhereIsBobFinePost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
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Hey, that may be but I've never had a problem with either bronze or stainless or monel shafts. If you have electrolosys problems you should probably take care of that before repacking. When I need repacking, that's what I'm using. It runs cool with no water and seems to perform better than teflon. If the shaft is scored, well, that's another problem.
I'll keep you all in the loop…
Bob
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
Follow me at: http://www.tinyurl.com/WhereIsBobFinePost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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I found three references when I did a google search. Pearson used a rubber gasket under the stanchions when they mounted them. The gaskets work very well. They are made of a soft rubber that compresses easily. I’ve been looking for similar stock to replace the gaskets under a few deck fittings that lack them. Interestingly, I noticed severe electrolysis in the fasteners that hold one of my stanchions to the deck. One of the screw heads broke off for no apparent reason. After reading the last reference I see what the issue is. Carbon is used in the rubber industry. The last two mention graphite as being a metal, which is not true. Its basically a kind of carbon, which is technically a metal. Graphite is mined. It is mostly crystallized carbon but contains other trace elements.
“snip…Another concern is that graphite promotes electrolysis. Graphite has a very noble potential of + 0.25V, which can lead to severe galvanic corrosion of copper alloys and stainless steels in saline waters.”
“Carbon is a metal that is used in making rubber, and so carbon rubber when mated to stainless steel can produce quite a reaction.”
“Metals are rated on what is called a Scale of Nobility, which simply means the materials ability to resist this kind of corrosion. There is also a chart called the “galvanic series” which shows the electrical potential of metals in seawater. A more noble metal is one that has a neutral or negative electrical potential. It will not generate a flow of positive ions, and is called “noble.” The reverse of this is the least noble metal, which has a high positive charge, and which will generate an electrical current. These include such metals as zinc, unalloyed aluminum and copper, iron and steel. Graphite and carbon bottom out the list, being the most highly charged metals.”
Rich
Original Message
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We installed a PSS seal on Clairebuoyant in about 2003. It requires little maintenance. It is important that the part attached to the shaft land on a smooth and unworn part of the shaft as it seals with an o-ring inside the coller. We found a good used ss shaft originally from a powerboat, and had in cut to length with a new key slot. Works fine, cost $100.
This part of the P-424 is overbuilt. Shaft diameter 1-1/2″, under 60hp, and shaft speed 1400 rpm or less should last forever with maintenence.
Worst part of the job was getting the old hose off. Finally cut the hose clamps and hose with a mototool. Much burning rubber smoke in the face.
The way to remove the flange from the shaft is to assemble it with a nut or washers between the shaft ends then slowly tighten the bolts. This will push the shaft out of the flange.
Stainless steel stress corrosion cracking usually occurs in the absence of oxygen. Any wet place where water and/or air can’t circulate should be checked periodically.
Quent
Clairebuoyant, #132 -
Rick, from where in your raw water system did you draw the water intake and attach the outake?
-p
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s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comFrom: “Rick Dugger” <>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 4:27 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Shaft SealPatrick,
At the recommendation of the guys at our marina, who deal with some very large motor vessels, I replaced my traditional stuffing box with the SureSeal system from TidesMarine two seasons ago.
Easy Install. No regrets. No problems.http://www.tidesmarine.com/shaft-seals.html
Rick
EclipseOn Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 6:48 AM, Patrick Walters < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I have a pretty traditional looking stuffing box and I’m curious if any of you have upgradedswapped out to a newer dripless type seal or if you have any particular comments about that.
I have the shaft out so at a minimum I’m going to repack it and I figure if it’s worth upgrading now would be the time, but as with everything I’m interested in hearing the pros and cons from any who have gone before.
Thanks,
-p—-
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
Looks like you could carry several spare lip seals (bellows as you refer to them) on the shaft if you wanted. That’s not too shabby.
-p
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s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comFrom: “John Stevenson” <>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 4:41 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Shaft SealPatrick,
I replaced my stuffing box with a PSS seal in 2001. No regrets, but I thought I had a leaking seal and had great difficulty getting a wrench on it. So I had the seal replaced by the boat yard when it was hauled. I had a similar seal on my previous boat for about 15 years.
They work fine, but I must admit they are in many ways a solution looking for a problem. The traditional stuffing box is hard to beat.
If I were to do it again, I probably would have stayed with the traditional stuffing box, but if I decided to go dripless it would probably be the TidesMarine product rather than the PSS. With the TM product you can fit a spare bellows on the shaft. No need to pull the shaft if the bellows fails.u, Dec 17, 2009 at 7:27 AM, Rick Dugger < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Patrick,
At the recommendation of the guys at our marina, who deal with some very large motor vessels, I replaced my traditional stuffing box with the SureSeal system from TidesMarine two seasons ago.
Easy Install. No regrets. No problems.http://www.tidesmarine.com/shaft-seals.html
Rick
EclipseOn Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 6:48 AM, Patrick Walters < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I have a pretty traditional looking stuffing box and I’m curious if any of you have upgradedswapped out to a newer dripless type seal or if you have any particular comments about that.
I have the shaft out so at a minimum I’m going to repack it and I figure if it’s worth upgrading now would be the time, but as with everything I’m interested in hearing the pros and cons from any who have gone before.
Thanks,
-p—-
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.com—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
You can, the spare seal(s) is protected by a bearing carrier. You remove the carrier and slip a 'hat' on the shaft and the seal is slid in place. The hat protects the seal in transit. They look like little hats hence the name. Ideally this would be done out of the water. They are not on there for 'emergency' reasons but so that the shaft doesn't have to be pulled away from the coupling to replace the seal. Separating a 70 pound coupling from a 2.5 inch shaft isn't a cheap date, I put them back together with 3 spares, not one as they usually show up with.
C
On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Patrick Walters < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Looks like you could carry several spare lip seals (bellows as you refer to them) on the shaft if you wanted. That's not too shabby.
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Patrick
Tides Marine had some very specific recommendations for that.
All my paperwork is at the boat.
It was close to the anti-siphon valve.
Rick
, Patrick Walters < ([email][/email])> wrote:Rick, from where in your raw water system did you draw the water intake and attach the outake?
-p
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s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comFrom: “Rick Dugger” < ([email][/email])>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 4:27 AM
To: ()
Subject: Re: Shaft SealPatrick,
At the recommendation of the guys at our marina, who deal with some very large motor vessels, I replaced my traditional stuffing box with the SureSeal system from TidesMarine two seasons ago.
Easy Install. No regrets. No problems.http://www.tidesmarine.com/shaft-seals.html
Rick
EclipseOn Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 6:48 AM, Patrick Walters < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I have a pretty traditional looking stuffing box and I'm curious if any of you have upgradedswapped out to a newer dripless type seal or if you have any particular comments about that.
I have the shaft out so at a minimum I'm going to repack it and I figure if it's worth upgrading now would be the time, but as with everything I'm interested in hearing the pros and cons from any who have gone before.
Thanks,
-p
—-
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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