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Here’s what I’m dealing with. Last year my transmission oil cooler failed
and filled the Paragon with seawater (http://www.tor.cc/articles/engineless.htm). I
did all the right things – replaced the oil cooler (of course), flushed the
tranny over and over, at least a dozen times until the fluid remained
perfectly clear red – and all seemed to be OK. A couple of months later, I
stored the boat on the hard for the summer, then re-launched last fall.
Since re-launching, every once in a while when I start up the engine and
engage the transmission, I hear a loud grinding-growling-screeching noise in
both forward and reverse gears. After a minute or less it goes away and the
boat motors perfectly.A few days ago I cast off a mooring to motor to the pier here and had that
awful noise again. It passed quickly, as always, but by the time I was
docked I had decided I’d better pull the tranny and either re-build or
replace it. Then it occurred to me that I had never actually gone below when
that noise was happening – hard to do when you’re casting off a mooring in a
crowded harbor – to confirm that it was in fact the transmission rather than
the V-drive (or even the prop/shaft) making all that racket. So for the past
few days dockside, with stout spring lines in place, I’ve started the engine
and engaged the gears forward and back, hoping to repeat that grinding
noise. Alas, it will not screech. Every time I so this, the transmission
shifts flawlessly and there are no unusual sounds. I’ll try it again
tomorrow.So, this is my dilemma. I’m scheduled to head offshore next month, 1,500 n.
miles nonstop to St. Maarten, then more hundreds of miles down to the
Grenadines. I definitely don’t want transmission problems then. Now’s the
time to deal with it, but how can I be certain I need a new or rebuilt
tranny without first determining with 100% certainty that the noise is
coming from there?That’s why I asked about V-drive failures, to see whether anyone had
experienced this kind of noise from that mechanism. It appears not.So, you mechanically wise guys (which I am not), what do you think?
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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Does it go away for the duration of the outing or go away with a higher rpm and then come back again with a lower rpm?
Alan
St. Martin again huh? Didn’t have enough last time?Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 9, 2013, at 7:20 PM, “Silverheels” wrote:
Here’s what I’m dealing with. Last year my transmission oil cooler failed
and filled the Paragon with seawater (http://www.tor.cc/articles/engineless.htm). I
did all the right things – replaced the oil cooler (of course), flushed the
tranny over and over, at least a dozen times until the fluid remained
perfectly clear red – and all seemed to be OK. A couple of months later, I
stored the boat on the hard for the summer, then re-launched last fall.
Since re-launching, every once in a while when I start up the engine and
engage the transmission, I hear a loud grinding-growling-screeching noise in
both forward and reverse gears. After a minute or less it goes away and the
boat motors perfectly.A few days ago I cast off a mooring to motor to the pier here and had that
awful noise again. It passed quickly, as always, but by the time I was
docked I had decided I’d better pull the tranny and either re-build or
replace it. Then it occurred to me that I had never actually gone below when
that noise was happening – hard to do when you’re casting off a mooring in a
crowded harbor – to confirm that it was in fact the transmission rather than
the V-drive (or even the prop/shaft) making all that racket. So for the past
few days dockside, with stout spring lines in place, I’ve started the engine
and engaged the gears forward and back, hoping to repeat that grinding
noise. Alas, it will not screech. Every time I so this, the transmission
shifts flawlessly and there are no unusual sounds. I’ll try it again
tomorrow.So, this is my dilemma. I’m scheduled to head offshore next month, 1,500 n.
miles nonstop to St. Maarten, then more hundreds of miles down to the
Grenadines. I definitely don’t want transmission problems then. Now’s the
time to deal with it, but how can I be certain I need a new or rebuilt
tranny without first determining with 100% certainty that the noise is
coming from there?That’s why I asked about V-drive failures, to see whether anyone had
experienced this kind of noise from that mechanism. It appears not.So, you mechanically wise guys (which I am not), what do you think?
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Hey Alan,
I haven’t had any “outings” this season, other than moving to the pier once
in a while for water, etc. Just hangin’ out on a mooring doing stuff. But
the noise, when it occurs, lasts only a minute or less at start-up, then
goes away for as long as I’m motoring. I’ve taken a spin out onto the river
once or twice to test it out and all seems perfect. Once the occasional
initial noise ceases it rarely returns. It did the other day after a few
minutes motoring, but only briefly and then stopped. No idea what’s going on
and that makes me nervous.As for St. Maarten, that’s just a waypoint en route to the Grenadines. Can’t
think of anyplace else to go right now this side of the Panama Canal.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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Sounds like something seizes up while not being run a for awhile.
My bet is with tranny.
As far as the islands go, I could spend the rest of my days on bequia.Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 9, 2013, at 7:41 PM, “Silverheels” wrote:
Quote:Hey Alan,I haven’t had any “outings” this season, other than moving to the pier once
in a while for water, etc. Just hangin’ out on a mooring doing stuff. But
the noise, when it occurs, lasts only a minute or less at start-up, then
goes away for as long as I’m motoring. I’ve taken a spin out onto the river
once or twice to test it out and all seems perfect. Once the occasional
initial noise ceases it rarely returns. It did the other day after a few
minutes motoring, but only briefly and then stopped. No idea what’s going on
and that makes me nervous.As for St. Maarten, that’s just a waypoint en route to the Grenadines. Can’t
think of anyplace else to go right now this side of the Panama Canal.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Yeah, it’s the tranny. I’d just like to know for sure before I spend the
bucks.And as far as the islands go, hey, what’ve we got left? Fifty, maybe sixty
more years? Might as well have a good time.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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Tor,
I would assume that the Paragon tranny works like the Velvet Drive and
has a bunch of plates in it that are pushed together when in gear and
allowed to slide past each other when out of gear. The screeching
might have been them sliding against each other instead of immediately
engaging each other.As to rebuilding these trannys, it is easy work. They are not at all
complex like multi-speed car transmissions. The Velvet Drive repair
manual and rebuild parts kit is readily available and perhaps the same
is the case for the Paragon. Before you are extorted by a mechanic,
see if you can find the manual and give it a read. It you can turn a
wrench and screwdriver, have a set of snap ring pliers for the internal
and external snap rings, and can stack parts in the same order you take
them out then you can rebuild one of these trannys.Pete
On 4/9/2013 7:58 PM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:Yeah, it’s the tranny. I’d just like to know for sure before I spend the
bucks.And as far as the islands go, hey, what’ve we got left? Fifty, maybe sixty
more years? Might as well have a good time.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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I sent my velvet drive out for service a couple of years ago when a seal started leaking. I forget what I paid for the service but it was around $300. A full rebuild might cost twice that. Removal and reinstallation of the transmission is fairly simple. You may have to slide your v-drive forward a bit if you can’t manage to disconnect the drive shaft. This would require re-alignment which is a bit of a pain.
Rich
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Thanks, Rich. I pulled and reinstalled this transmission (with help) once
already when it self-destructed soon after I got this boat. So I have an
idea of what’s involved there.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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Good input, Pete. There are times when I’m in the right frame of mind to
learn new tricks – even mechanical tricks, which are my least favorite. This
isn’t one of those times. There is more than enough on the Must Do List
already to keep me occupied until D-Day. Best to save Transmission 101 for
another occasion.;|
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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That’s a lot of money to turn a few nuts/bolts and press in a new seal…
On 4/10/2013 7:48 AM, wrote:
Quote:I sent my velvet drive out for service a couple of years ago when a seal started leaking. I forget what I paid for the service but it was around $300. A full rebuild might cost twice that. Removal and reinstallation of the transmission is fairly simple. You may have to slide your v-drive forward a bit if you can’t manage to disconnect the drive shaft. This would require re-alignment which is a bit of a pain.Rich
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Those that can, do. Those that can’t, pay.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 10, 2013, at 11:21 PM, Pete Dubler wrote:
Quote:That’s a lot of money to turn a few nuts/bolts and press in a new seal…On 4/10/2013 7:48 AM, wrote:
Quote:I sent my velvet drive out for service a couple of years ago when a seal started leaking. I forget what I paid for the service but it was around $300. A full rebuild might cost twice that. Removal and reinstallation of the transmission is fairly simple. You may have to slide your v-drive forward a bit if you can’t manage to disconnect the drive shaft. This would require re-alignment which is a bit of a pain.Rich
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haha – or they have great friends like you, Al! Will always appreciate all
the help you were to me! To wit, I still have a dumb phone. Call me
sometime – we’ll catch up.Bill Tice
He who does not know to which port he is sailing has no favorable wind.
In a message dated 4/11/2013 5:30:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:Those that can, do. Those that can’t, pay.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 10, 2013, at 11:21 PM, Pete Dubler wrote:
That’s a lot of money to turn a few nuts/bolts and press in a new seal…
On 4/10/2013 7:48 AM, wrote:
I sent my velvet drive out for service a couple of years ago when a
seal started leaking. I forget what I paid for the service but it was around
$300. A full rebuild might cost twice that. Removal and reinstallation of
the transmission is fairly simple. You may have to slide your v-drive
forward a bit if you can’t manage to disconnect the drive shaft. This would
require re-alignment which is a bit of a pain.Quote:Quote:Rich
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If only it were that simple. Sometimes it’s a matter of time, priorities or
logistics – or well-earned laziness; often it’s recognizing your own
strengths and shortcomings. Some in this group have paid big bucks to boat
yards and specialists for things I do myself as a matter of course. Others
among us think nothing of tackling jobs that are beyond what I know or want
to learn. In the long run we all Do, and we all Pay.Ain’t boating great?
🙂
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Those who think they can, can.
Those who are convinced they can’t, pay.If you think you can, or you think you can’t, you are probably right.
Thomas Edison.On 4/11/2013 3:30 AM, Alan wrote:
Quote:Those that can, do. Those that can’t, pay.Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 10, 2013, at 11:21 PM, Pete Dubler wrote:
Quote:That’s a lot of money to turn a few nuts/bolts and press in a new seal…On 4/10/2013 7:48 AM, wrote:
Quote:I sent my velvet drive out for service a couple of years ago when a seal started leaking. I forget what I paid for the service but it was around $300. A full rebuild might cost twice that. Removal and reinstallation of the transmission is fairly simple. You may have to slide your v-drive forward a bit if you can’t manage to disconnect the drive shaft. This would require re-alignment which is a bit of a pain.Rich
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Tor… always speaks the truth.
On 4/11/2013 5:51 AM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:If only it were that simple. Sometimes it’s a matter of time, priorities or
logistics – or well-earned laziness; often it’s recognizing your own
strengths and shortcomings. Some in this group have paid big bucks to boat
yards and specialists for things I do myself as a matter of course. Others
among us think nothing of tackling jobs that are beyond what I know or want
to learn. In the long run we all Do, and we all Pay.Ain’t boating great?
🙂
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Add to that: Those who think they can but really can’t pay much more.
Corollary: know your limitations.I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Apr 11, 2013 9:57 AM, “Pete Dubler” wrote:Quote:Those who think they can, can.
Those who are convinced they can’t, pay.If you think you can, or you think you can’t, you are probably right.
Thomas Edison.On 4/11/2013 3:30 AM, Alan wrote:
Quote:Those that can, do. Those that can’t, pay.Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 10, 2013, at 11:21 PM, Pete Dubler wrote:
That’s a lot of money to turn a few nuts/bolts and press in a new seal…
Quote:On 4/10/2013 7:48 AM, wrote:Quote:I sent my velvet drive out for service a couple of years ago when a
seal started leaking. I forget what I paid for the service but it was
around $300. A full rebuild might cost twice that. Removal and
reinstallation of the transmission is fairly simple. You may have to slide
your v-drive forward a bit if you can’t manage to disconnect the drive
shaft. This would require re-alignment which is a bit of a pain.Rich
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The mechanics’ consensus now is that I have a V-drive issue, not a
transmission issue. They believe the driven gear bearings, races, idler
bushing, spacers, shims, thrust washers, etc. are probably worn. I’ll call
Walter on Monday to find out whether this old R-20 can be rebuilt.Anybody know a ballpark cost of a new R-26, and what’s involved in
installing it where the R-20 was in a 424?Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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Don at Walter Gear can give you the 411 on the R26 replacement. I just had my r20 rebuilt by Walter and it cost about $1,300–only one of the two big gears needed replacement. ‘Recommend also having the hollow and splined drive shafts be checked at the same time. My boat #203 had a heavily pitted splined shaft and Walter replaced it, cleaned and painted the hollow drive shaft for about $300.
If you go the rebuild route, ask them to replace the fasteners on the mounting/adjustment brackets, or at least not paint them. They painted mine and it has made final adjustment much more difficult.
Roger
On Apr 13, 2013, at 12:34 PM, “Silverheels” wrote:
The mechanics’ consensus now is that I have a V-drive issue, not a
transmission issue. They believe the driven gear bearings, races, idler
bushing, spacers, shims, thrust washers, etc. are probably worn. I’ll call
Walter on Monday to find out whether this old R-20 can be rebuilt.Anybody know a ballpark cost of a new R-26, and what’s involved in
installing it where the R-20 was in a 424?Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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Excellent info, Roger. Thanks!
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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As always, Rich, your advice is both wise and appreciated. My R20 is
certainly that old, but lived half its live in freshwater and, until I
bought this boat, never went cruising. So like many aspects of this good old
boat, it seems to be in better than average condition for its age. My
thought is to leave the rebuild-vs-replace decision to Walter. I’ll call
them in the morning and see what they think.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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Ouch! Is there any hope of finding a factory-refurbished RV-26?
Tor
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The RV 20’s were used on a lot of different boats not just sailboats. You might be able to find a used RV 20 and use the case and get that rebuilt.
Just a thoughtSent from my iPhone
On Apr 14, 2013, at 4:25 PM, “Silverheels” wrote:
Quote:Ouch! Is there any hope of finding a factory-refurbished RV-26?Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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A worthy suggestion, Alan, but I don’t have time now for too much messing
around. I’ll see what Walter suggests first.Thanks,
Tor
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Had my RV-20 rebuilt by Walter Gear one month ago. Have parts run out since then?
Roger
On Apr 14, 2013, at 9:54 AM, “Rich Carter” wrote:
Quote:There are no longer sufficient parts available to rebuild an RV-20. An RV-26 will set you back around $3k.Rich
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Hey Tor,
I frequently see used and rebuilt V-Drives on eBay. An RC-26D rebuilt listed now for $1699. Trick may be finding one with the right gear ratio.
Anyone know if it’s easy or cheap to change the gear ratio in a Walter? Say I found a great deal but it’s 1.4/1 and I need a 2/1.
By the way, I see a couple of RV-20s listed. Maybe buy one of these cheap for parts?
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I hadn’t even thought to look on eBay. Interesting. The thing is, even if
there were an RV-20 or 26 with the correct gear ratio, you’d be buying a pig
in a poke. Considering where I’m headed I’m willing to pay a little more for
“factory tested and approved.” As it is, Don at Walter said yesterday that
based on my description of my unit – good casing, worn bearings – they can
probably rebuild it for $800-950, 10-day turnaround. Add freight and it’s an
even boat unit, or more if it turns out to need a gear, too. I boxed up my
V-drive yesterday; UPS is coming for it this morning.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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When I had mine rebuilt, I dropped it off on my way back from Deltaville. Don gave me a tour. Interesting place. He makes most of the contents of the gearbox in house. All USA made!
AlanSent from my iPhone
On Apr 16, 2013, at 7:41 AM, “Silverheels” wrote:
Quote:I hadn’t even thought to look on eBay. Interesting. The thing is, even if
there were an RV-20 or 26 with the correct gear ratio, you’d be buying a pig
in a poke. Considering where I’m headed I’m willing to pay a little more for
“factory tested and approved.” As it is, Don at Walter said yesterday that
based on my description of my unit – good casing, worn bearings – they can
probably rebuild it for $800-950, 10-day turnaround. Add freight and it’s an
even boat unit, or more if it turns out to need a gear, too. I boxed up my
V-drive yesterday; UPS is coming for it this morning.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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Folks-
I may have gotten the last RV-20 gear case available a few years ago. I also replaced the bearings and seals. Got these parts from Transmission Marine in Florida:
http://www.marinegears.com/catalog/cat.html
Have not ordered from them recently, but they might be worth a call or email. If your case is not rusted through, the v-drive is not unfixable.
Quent -
Looking at the Walters RV-20 manual, it appears that there is only one gear case housing, and that it is different from the RV-20D that bolts directly to the transmission. The angle housing and gear ratio have to be right, but these parts could be reused from the old v-drive.
There is a used RV-20 on Ebay that is in Ohio and presumably used in fresh water that might be worth considering just to get the gear case and water passage cover.
Quent -
Good info, Quent. My RV-20 gear case appears to be in excellent condition,
but I won’t know that for sure until Walter opens it up next week. (UPS has
it at the moment.)Once these things are rebuilt, is there a break-in period, anything special
you have to do for the new parts?Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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Hi Tor-
Re break in, perhaps a question best directed to Walter. Be sure to add oil, and realign to prop shaft. One interesting feature of the v-drive is that at least one of the oil drain plugs has a magnet to collect metal worn off gears and bearings. A good check of the internal condition. There was a good sized gob of steel filings on a similar plug on the trans of my ’97 Ford Ranger, but it’s still running good.
You might want to order a copy of the Walter RV-20 service manual as well.
Quent -
Roger all that, Quent. I planned to ask Walter about it, but thought I might
pick up something from the group, too. I know enough to add oil and, having
had the beast out a few years ago for other reasons, am familiar with
realigning the prop shaft coupling. I’m pretty sure I also cleaned that
internal magnet plug at that time (or maybe it was during the last oil
change, last fall), and don’t recall much debris on it. I have a 6-page PDF
copy of the manual compliments of someone in this forum.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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attached, please find a copy of that spreadsheet.
I rebuilt my V-drive back in 2001. I learned a lot about the gearbox in the process of disassembling and reassembling the thing. I wouldn’t do it again. It’s a lot of work and unless you are sure your cooling jacket will last another 10 years or more it’s not worth it. You need a special set of wrenches to get the gear box opened. I fabricated a pair and passed them on to another owner. Unfortunately, I forgot who I gave them to. The unit is mechanically well designed, but the cooling system is an issue. If you could keep the darn thing from rusting through and if you change the oil every once in a while, I think it would probably last indefinitely. We’ve beat this dead horse too much over the years. I wish there was some practical way to convert it to freshwater cooling. I’m about to open my RV-26 cooling jacket up for a periodic cleaning. This thing has an oil-cooler in the jacket so it will be more difficult to clean out. I’m not looking forward to it.
As I recall, there is no break-in procedure for a new V-drive other than putting an additive in the gearbox. I forgot what they recommend. There’s a reference to this in the manual.
I touch-up the paint on my V-drive each spring with blue rustoleum. It’s bad enough to have it rust through from the inside but there is no reason to let it rust on the outside. They should have used a better coating.
Rich
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I’m not sure why my RV-26 gets warm and my RV-20 never did. I run the new engine harder than the old W60, but not that much faster. Maybe pumping the oil around warms it up. If I ran it without cooling, I’m sure it would get hot. One would think that an oil-cooler might be enough. I pulled the cover off last weekend and cleaned it out. It wasn’t bad after five years. I have no idea why the RV-20 seemed to rust so rapidly yet the RV-26 seems more robust. Are there different kinds of cast-iron that behave differently in salt-water?
If I still had an RV-20, I’d probably run it without cooling and put a temperature alarm on it to be safe.
Rich
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Re running w/o water cooling, certainly worth considering.
Rich-
Is it possible that Walter put some kind of coating on the RV-26 cooling passage?
I can report one idea that doesn’t work. I tried installing a zinc in the RV-20 cooling passage. Pieces of zinc tore up my pump impellor, then clogged the heat exchanger. Hard explaining that one to the Admiral!
Quent -
Quent,
No, there is no coating on the inside of the cooling jacket. One would think they could have used something however. Years ago, I cleaned out my RV-20 and coated the inside with marine-tex. This stopped further corrosion and patched the old cooling jacket which was leaking into the gearbox. I considered doing the same thing with my RV-26 when I purchased it but there’s an oil-cooler coil in there. It would have been very difficult to coat the cooling passage. I decided to leave it alone and face replacing the cases if I still owned her down the line. Cases are available for the RV-26.I remember opening up the RV-20 cooling jacket for the first time when my boat was about 10 years old. By then, the inside of the jacket was coated with a thick layer of corrosion. At first I thought it must be mud or something since it partially obstructed waster from passing through there. Chips could be picked up with a magnet so it had to be rust. My RV-26 is now 6 years old. I was expecting to see quite a lot of corrosion in there but it was mostly clean. I quickly scraped out a small amount of rust. I can’t explain the difference.
The two plugs in the RV-20 jacket are for the oil-cooler, not intended for zincs. BTW: if you haven’t replaced those plugs, I suggest that you do so. They rust through more quickly than the cases. The V-drive cooling jacket cover has what appears to be an unfinished hole in the top for a zinc. One would think that you finish drilling the thing out and thread a zinc pencil in there. Walter may have planned this at one time. Without some kind of screen to keep zinc bits from clogging the downstream cooling system, this would not work as I think you found. As you probably know, you need to carefully flush out the cooling jacket after cleaning it otherwise chips will clog your engine heat-exchanger. I have yet to do this. I touch-up the paint on the V-drive each year. It’s bad enough to know it’s rusting way on the inside but I won’t have it rusting on the outside too. I find that blue Rustoleum works as touch-up. I don’t know what Walter uses for paint. Whatever they use is junk. My Yanmar engine has some kind of baked on coating that lasts forever. Why can’t Walter use something similar?
Rich
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After working on my W63 for 7 months and trying to replace a defective cylinder head with a new one, I am getting to a point that I may have to re-power my 424. I found what appeared to be an exact match, but thus far I have not been able to prevent head gasket leakage from the water to oil. Still working on the problem, but I am getting to a point, I need to explore other options. Any suggestions wrt to a replacement engine? I am not crazy about replacing with another Westerbeke. I would like to get a 65-70HP engine that will work with the RV-20 V Drive. I await guidance and experience.
Steve
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Steve,
I repowered with a Yanmar 4JH4E, 54 hp. Excellent, trouble-free engine,
plenty of power for a 424. But you might as well ask this group what the
best anchor is. You’re going to get lots of different answers, all of them
correct.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Hi Steve,
What Tor said. But to that I add think about where you think you’ll be
cruising. If you want to go worldwide find an engine that you can identify
and get parts for from many sources. By that I mean, for instance,
Betamarine, who uses Kubota engines that are readily identifiable so major
parts can be gotten from farm equipment suppliers at 20% of the marine
price.But that said, it’s kind of minor. Diesels seldom need injectors or pumps
or things. Keep the oil changed and the fuel clean and it will outlast
your ownership.The nice thing is that because you’re using a v-drive with a jackshaft is
that engine alignment is not as critical as it would be in typical
installations and you have some flexibility with mounting. I’ve often
thought of purchasing a Kubota engine (60hp ~6k) and going to Lenco for
coolers (they’re the ones who make most of the marinizer’s add-on coolers)
and having at it.But first I need the money…
Bob
On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 6:30 AM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:Steve,I repowered with a Yanmar 4JH4E, 54 hp. Excellent, trouble-free engine,
plenty of power for a 424. But you might as well ask this group what the
best anchor is. You’re going to get lots of different answers, all of them
correct.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Quote:
Original Message
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Steve-
Sorry to hear that you have a problem after so much effort to get the head. Unless you are really ready to move on to a new engine, you might want to talk to the guy at Gaskets to go on the Internet. They specialize on making special one off head gaskets.
You might also want to have a machine shop check the new head to make sure that it is milled flat.
A third possibility is check in at SOMRAD website. They know some stuff about diesels.
Good luck!
Quent -
Tor,
What size propellor are you using? I have the same engine and find the 20″x 13 too big.
Joe Steiner
Half Moon________________________________
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I have a folding prop with an adjustable pitch. I will have to have to check on the size. I have not readjusted the pitch and I noticed that with my engine (when running properly), Peak RPM under load is less then rated so I think the pitch is set incorrectly. Sounds like a similar problem.
Steve
Sent from my iPad
On May 3, 2013, at 10:00 AM, “Joseph Steiner” wrote:
Quote:Tor,What size propellor are you using? I have the same engine and find the 20″x 13 too big.
Joe Steiner
Half Moon________________________________
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Hi Joe,
Silverheels’ prop, probably the original, was a 20LH13 when I bought the
boat. I had it re-pitched to a mechanic-recommended 20LH12 when I repowered
with the Yanmar in 2007. But subsequent testing on my own revealed that
wasn’t quite right, so it was re-pitched again in 2009 to 20LH11. I’m happy
with that. On long passages and in general, I typically run at 1200-1600 RPM
and average 5.5 knots (offshore) burning 0.6 GPH. This is primarily to
conserve fuel. 2000-2200 RPM = 6 to 6.5 kn = 1 GPH. Wide open gets us around
8 knots.Why have you concluded your prop is too big (other than that it surely
creates speed-costly drag under sail)?Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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Mine was a 13 when I got it. Changed to a 12 because I could never get it up to the proper RPM.
When a small incident caused me to have the prop repaired I had it repitched to an 11.
I was very disappointed in the Bahamas as I didn’t quite feel I had the power to keep speed on as I went though some of the cuts.
I now have it back to a 12.
It’s W58.
Alan
UNABATEDSent from my iPhone
On May 3, 2013, at 10:00 AM, Joseph Steiner wrote:
Quote:Tor,What size propellor are you using? I have the same engine and find the 20″x 13 too big.
Joe Steiner
Half Moon________________________________
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Yanmar is the way togo 68 hp. turbo Thats what I repowered Thisisit with great
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Thanks for that info Tor…my prop does not allow me to go full RPM which I need to do to clean any carbon buildup. At 2500 the prop cavitates.
It’s surpising to me that the orinal prop is too big..even Alan’s Westerbeke 58 cannot handle it and he went ultimately to a 12 pitch.
I have great bite in the cuts and inlets when I need it and I cruise at 1400-1600 RPM and do close to 6.5 kts. I certainly prefer this prop over my feathering Prowell which did a terrible job backing out of a slip.
Alan’s experience in the Bahamas leaves me wondering what should I do to have bite and still be able to decarbonize?
Â
btw..drag is no issue with me.
Â
I’m in Titusville now. Good prop shop here if I need to adjust pitch, but I’m wondering if I should consider a smaller, say 18″ prop??
Â
Joe,________________________________
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I love Titusville! There’s ‘Our Place’, the diner. Good food, nice
people. You’ve probably been there, though.Bob
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Joseph Steiner wrote:
Quote:Thanks for that info Tor…my prop does not allow me to go full RPM which
I need to do to clean any carbon buildup. At 2500 the prop cavitates.
It’s surpising to me that the orinal prop is too big..even Alan’s
Westerbeke 58 cannot handle it and he went ultimately to a 12 pitch.
I have great bite in the cuts and inlets when I need it and I cruise at
1400-1600 RPM and do close to 6.5 kts. I certainly prefer this prop over my
feathering Prowell which did a terrible job backing out of a slip.
Alan’s experience in the Bahamas leaves me wondering what should I do to
have bite and still be able to decarbonize?btw..drag is no issue with me.
I’m in Titusville now. Good prop shop here if I need to adjust pitch, but
I’m wondering if I should consider a smaller, say 18″ prop??Joe,
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