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For those who haven’t heard this story, you may find this amusing. Things are a little slow here at work today, so I don’t mind doing some typing.
About 15 years ago I decided to have the starter on my old W60 rebuilt. I called the local Westerbeke dealer and asked them what it would cost. They told me they rebuild them for time and materials. You leave the starter with them for a few weeks and when they get time they rebuild them. It typically runs about $700 or so, more or less. I thought that was nuts, so I pulled the starter and brought it into a local shop that rebuilds starters and alternators. I put the thing up on the counter and had the owner inspect it. He shook his head and said “there’s a lot of rust here, did this thing come off a boat or something?”
I nodded my head. He then turned it over and shook his. “Oh, this is going to be a little bit of work then. Look at this bendix! This is the old style. It will eat your flywheel. I’ll have to replace it. I bet the windings are shot too. I’ll have to soak it in penetrating oil to even get it disassembled. This is going to cost a few bucks. Are you sure you want this done?”
After having heard the $700+ figure from Hansen, I was bracing myself for a big boat-unit. I asked him what it would cost. He replied “lets see, with a new bendix, armature, and brushes, it will run you about $140, but you’ll have to leave it here for a couple of days for the penetrating oil to soak.
This is the main reason that I now own a Yanmar.
—
Rich Carter
Original message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Well, now Rich… $700 is perfectly reasonable considering it was going to take them two weeks worth of work. I mean, OBVIOUSLY the other guy was ripping you off! Westerbeke was charging for 2 weeks worth of actual work, while the other guy was charging you just for letting the thing soak in oil!
On 6/2/08 10:51 AM, wrote :
Quote:For those who haven’t heard this story, you may find this amusing. Things are a little slow here at work today, so I don’t mind doing some typing.About 15 years ago I decided to have the starter on my old W60 rebuilt. I called the local Westerbeke dealer and asked them what it would cost. They told me they rebuild them for time and materials. You leave the starter with them for a few weeks and when they get time they rebuild them. It typically runs about $700 or so, more or less. I thought that was nuts, so I pulled the starter and brought it into a local shop that rebuilds starters and alternators. I put the thing up on the counter and had the owner inspect it. He shook his head and said “there’s a lot of rust here, did this thing come off a boat or something?”
I nodded my head. He then turned it over and shook his. “Oh, this is going to be a little bit of work then. Look at this bendix! This is the old style. It will eat your flywheel. I’ll have to replace it. I bet the windings are shot too. I’ll have to soak it in penetrating oil to even get it disassembled. This is going to cost a few bucks. Are you sure you want this done?”
After having heard the $700+ figure from Hansen, I was bracing myself for a big boat-unit. I asked him what it would cost. He replied “lets see, with a new bendix, armature, and brushes, it will run you about $140, but you’ll have to leave it here for a couple of days for the penetrating oil to soak.
This is the main reason that I now own a Yanmar.
—
Rich Carter
Original message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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I'd've kept the Westerbeke and just taken my business to the local guy – I have a similar story with Universal. I wanted a spare injector for the engine. From Universal: $175. From Kubota: $45. Compression washer from Universal: $7. From Kubota: $0.75. Just recently I had to replace an alternator. From Westerbeke: $400.00. From the yard: $210. It looks identical, except it's black instead of red. Sure, it's a Delco, and it's not waterproof, but if water gets as high as the alternator it getting wet won't be my biggest problem.
It's just amazing what you can do when you research where the marine parts actually come from. Incidentally, the W58 is a marinized version of their 25KW generator engine. Parts for that are much less expensive.
Bob
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 10:51 AM, < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:For those who haven't heard this story, you may find this amusing. Things are a little slow here at work today, so I don't mind doing some typing.About 15 years ago I decided to have the starter on my old W60 rebuilt. I called the local Westerbeke dealer and asked them what it would cost. They told me they rebuild them for time and materials. You leave the starter with them for a few weeks and when they get time they rebuild them. It typically runs about $700 or so, more or less. I thought that was nuts, so I pulled the starter and brought it into a local shop that rebuilds starters and alternators. I put the thing up on the counter and had the owner inspect it. He shook his head and said “there's a lot of rust here, did this thing come off a boat or something?”
I nodded my head. He then turned it over and shook his. “Oh, this is going to be a little bit of work then. Look at this bendix! This is the old style. It will eat your flywheel. I'll have to replace it. I bet the windings are shot too. I'll have to soak it in penetrating oil to even get it disassembled. This is going to cost a few bucks. Are you sure you want this done?”
After having heard the $700+ figure from Hansen, I was bracing myself for a big boat-unit. I asked him what it would cost. He replied “lets see, with a new bendix, armature, and brushes, it will run you about $140, but you'll have to leave it here for a couple of days for the penetrating oil to soak.
This is the main reason that I now own a Yanmar.
—
Rich Carter
Original message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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do you have the Kobota part numbers?
alan
— Robert Fine <> wrote:I’d’ve kept the Westerbeke and just taken my
business to the local guy – I
have a similar story with Universal. I wanted a
spare injector for the
engine. From Universal: $175. From Kubota: $45.
Compression washer from
Universal: $7. From Kubota: $0.75. Just recently
I had to replace an
alternator. From Westerbeke: $400.00. From the
yard: $210. It looks
identical, except it’s black instead of red. Sure,
it’s a Delco, and it’s
not waterproof, but if water gets as high as the
alternator it getting wet
won’t be my biggest problem.It’s just amazing what you can do when you research
where the marine parts
actually come from. Incidentally, the W58 is a
marinized version of their
25KW generator engine. Parts for that are much less
expensive.Bob
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 10:51 AM,
<> wrote:For those who haven’t heard this story, you may
find this amusing. Things
are a little slow here at work today, so I don’t
mind doing some typing.
About 15 years ago I decided to have the starter
on my old W60 rebuilt. I
called the local Westerbeke dealer and asked them
what it would cost. They
told me they rebuild them for time and materials.
You leave the starter
with them for a few weeks and when they get time
they rebuild them. It
typically runs about $700 or so, more or less. I
thought that was nuts, so
I pulled the starter and brought it into a local
shop that rebuilds starters
and alternators. I put the thing up on the
counter and had the owner
inspect it. He shook his head and said “there’s a
lot of rust here, did
this thing come off a boat or something?”
I nodded my head. He then turned it over and
shook his. “Oh, this is
going to be a little bit of work then. Look at
this bendix! This is the
old style. It will eat your flywheel. I’ll have
to replace it. I bet the
windings are shot too. I’ll have to soak it in
penetrating oil to even get
it disassembled. This is going to cost a few
bucks. Are you sure you want
this done?”
After having heard the $700+ figure from Hansen, I
was bracing myself for a
big boat-unit. I asked him what it would cost.
He replied “lets see, with
a new bendix, armature, and brushes, it will run
you about $140, but you’ll
have to leave it here for a couple of days for the
penetrating oil to soak.
This is the main reason that I now own a Yanmar.
—
Rich Carter
Original message
Quote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Hi Alan,
The Kubota was on a different boat – it was the XP25, a three cylinder 25 hp engine. My point was that Universal and to a lesser extent Westerbeke way overcharge for parts. If I can find out who makes the W58, you can be sure I'll be contacting them for parts.
I'm pretty sure that Westerbeke, like Universal and Beta Marine, doesn't manufacture their own engines – they marinize them.
Bob
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 7:11 AM, alan P < ([email][/email])> wrote:
do you have the Kobota part numbers?
alan
— Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:I'd've kept the Westerbeke and just taken my
business to the local guy – I
have a similar story with Universal. I wanted a
spare injector for the
engine. From Universal: $175. From Kubota: $45.
Compression washer from
Universal: $7. From Kubota: $0.75. Just recently
I had to replace an
alternator. From Westerbeke: $400.00. From the
yard: $210. It looks
identical, except it's black instead of red. Sure,
it's a Delco, and it's
not waterproof, but if water gets as high as the
alternator it getting wet
won't be my biggest problem.It's just amazing what you can do when you research
where the marine parts
actually come from. Incidentally, the W58 is a
marinized version of their
25KW generator engine. Parts for that are much less
expensive.Bob
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 10:51 AM,
< ([email][/email])> wrote:For those who haven't heard this story, you may
find this amusing. Things
are a little slow here at work today, so I don't
mind doing some typing.
About 15 years ago I decided to have the starter
on my old W60 rebuilt. I
called the local Westerbeke dealer and asked them
what it would cost. They
told me they rebuild them for time and materials.
You leave the starter
with them for a few weeks and when they get time
they rebuild them. It
typically runs about $700 or so, more or less. I
thought that was nuts, so
I pulled the starter and brought it into a local
shop that rebuilds starters
and alternators. I put the thing up on the
counter and had the owner
inspect it. He shook his head and said “there's a
lot of rust here, did
this thing come off a boat or something?”
I nodded my head. He then turned it over and
shook his. “Oh, this is
going to be a little bit of work then. Look at
this bendix! This is the
old style. It will eat your flywheel. I'll have
to replace it. I bet the
windings are shot too. I'll have to soak it in
penetrating oil to even get
it disassembled. This is going to cost a few
bucks. Are you sure you want
this done?”
After having heard the $700+ figure from Hansen, I
was bracing myself for a
big boat-unit. I asked him what it would cost.
He replied “lets see, with
a new bendix, armature, and brushes, it will run
you about $140, but you'll
have to leave it here for a couple of days for the
penetrating oil to soak.
This is the main reason that I now own a Yanmar.
—
Rich Carter
Original message
Quote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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The Westerbeke 58 is a Mazda Industrial engine and parts are much less costly from Mazda. Jim 424 cutter #219
— wrote:
<.. snip>
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Yeah, baby! That's what I'm talkin' about! Do you know which model? I'll see if my engine guys can get Mazda parts.
Bob
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 8:24 AM, James Roberts < ([email][/email])> wrote:
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We went thru this a year ago. We know Mazda, but no
one can figure out which one.
a— Robert Fine <> wrote:
Yeah, baby! That’s what I’m talkin’ about! Do you
know which model? I’ll
see if my engine guys can get Mazda parts.Bob
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 8:24 AM, James Roberts
<> wrote:The Westerbeke 58 is a Mazda Industrial engine and
parts are much less
Quote:costly from Mazda. Jim 424 cutter #219— wrote:
<.. snip>
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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I'm on the case, then. I'll get back to the group if and when I find out.
Bob
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 10:19 AM, alan P < ([email][/email])> wrote:
We went thru this a year ago. We know Mazda, but no
one can figure out which one.
a— Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Yeah, baby! That's what I'm talkin' about! Do you
know which model? I'll
see if my engine guys can get Mazda parts.Bob
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 8:24 AM, James Roberts
< ([email][/email])> wrote:The Westerbeke 58 is a Mazda Industrial engine and
parts are much less
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If I remember correctly, several of you bought a traveler from Garhauer Marine. If you did so, are you still happy with the purchase? What model did you buy? Who was the guy you worked with at Garhauer? I need a new traveler. If you guys are happy with the Garhauer unit I’ll order one.
Lee Y
Morning Glory #43Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Lee
My original notes are below. Someone else may have ordered a slightly different configuration and may have comments about their installation. I think at least one person replaced the cheek block and standup block on the deck.I’m happy with the installation. I think that Garhauer makes a quality product that is a good value.
Rich Carter
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Yes, it’s very, VERY well made.
I got the biggest one, the UBT 3 I think it is. I also got mine with 60 series stainless steel sheaves, which I think are little too big, I think 40’s are probably plenty.
I think Guido handles all of the travellers for Garhauer. They have the specs on file for the 424’s they’ve done.
Pix are online at http://www.ontheboat.net/gallery2/v/Ra/Projects/New+Traveller/
I think it was about a boat unit all in.
On 6/3/08 12:19 PM, Lee Yonkers wrote :
If I remember correctly, several of you bought a traveler from Garhauer Marine. If you did so, are you still happy with the purchase? What model did you buy? Who was the guy you worked with at Garhauer? I need a new traveler. If you guys are happy with the Garhauer unit I’ll order one.
Lee Y
Morning Glory #43Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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We might be crossing back and forth here between the Westerbeke 60 and the Westerbeke 58. These are two different engines. Someone said a while back that the W-60 might be related to the London taxi engine, and built by Perkins.
The W-58 is a later model. The design is based on the Mazda XA, an industrial engine used in some forklifts. However the design was licensed to Perkins, who used it in various industrial applications, and who probably sold base engines to Westerbeke for the W-58 as they did for the W-60. I acquired (cheap) a gasket set for the Mazda XA, but none fit the W-58 that I have dissassembled in the garage.
The W-58 starter is an interesting situation. If you look at W’s parts book on line, they show a substitution for the original Westerbeke starter to ARCO #12101, but still the original $600+! If you google ARCO 12101, they are easy to find for about $250.
Quent -
I always knew this engine as a Mazda 4-154 (4 cyl., 154 cu in.) I have not, however, tried to order parts from Mazda. I would love to be able to if we can figure out exactly which engine Mazda calls it!!
Rodd Leeds
Windseeker
1983 CutterQuote:
Original Message
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Hey! How about this link? http://www.engnetglobal.com/c/c.aspx/PAR017/productdetail/PAR017_mazda
I'm going to call them to see if they can help identify the engine.
BOb
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Rodd Leeds < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:I always knew this engine as a Mazda 4-154 (4 cyl., 154 cu in.) I have not, however, tried to order parts from Mazda. I would love to be able to if we can figure out exactly which engine Mazda calls it!!Rodd Leeds
Windseeker
1983 CutterQuote:
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Rich,
I noticed that you ordered a 70 inch traveler which is several inches longer than the traveler on my boat. So I went to the 424 site to look at the pictures you have posted and I saw that your traveler extends beyond the existing traveler mounts. I like that idea.
I have a question: where did you find the support extensions that allow you to mount a flat traveler on the existing mounts? I am going to have to get a set like the ones you have.
Lee
Original Message —-
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Does anyone have the exact model of the Mazda engine?
James Roberts wrote:
Quote:The Westerbeke 58 is a Mazda Industrial engine and parts are much less costly from Mazda. Jim 424 cutter #219— wrote:
<.. snip>
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Lee
The extension supports are made from teak. I cut them in a wedge shape to allow mounting a flat track. I then painted them white. I used teak because I don’t want to deal with rotted wood. Other materials would work too, but teak was handy. The flat track handles loads better than a curved track. It raises the track ends an inch or so. Some folks might find that this obscures their view. I don’t have an issue with it. If you can’t find a convenient way to cut a pair of wedges, I’ll make a set for you.My dodger was cut with access slits to allow the traveler control lines to pass through. In order to get the lines to match up with the dodger, I needed to extend the traveler a bit. It provides a little more room for control, but I’m not sure there’s any advantage to the extra length. It has the disadvantage of snagging the main sheet on rare occasions during a botched gybe. I’d probably snag the mainsheet even if the track were shorter.
—
Rich Carter
Original message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Garhauer custom made mine from stainless steel. It was a large part of the cost, but phenomenally well made and strong.
On 6/4/08 8:37 AM, wrote :
Quote:Lee
The extension supports are made from teak. I cut them in a wedge shape to allow mounting a flat track. I then painted them white. I used teak because I don’t want to deal with rotted wood. Other materials would work too, but teak was handy. The flat track handles loads better than a curved track. It raises the track ends an inch or so. Some folks might find that this obscures their view. I don’t have an issue with it. If you can’t find a convenient way to cut a pair of wedges, I’ll make a set for you.My dodger was cut with access slits to allow the traveler control lines to pass through. In order to get the lines to match up with the dodger, I needed to extend the traveler a bit. It provides a little more room for control, but I’m not sure there’s any advantage to the extra length. It has the disadvantage of snagging the main sheet on rare occasions during a botched gybe. I’d probably snag the mainsheet even if the track were shorter.
—
Rich Carter
Original message
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