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Dawn and Patrick,
Congratulations on your completed foredeck project. That’s a big one off the
list. At first I just shackled my anchor chain snubber to the pad eye,
stowing the other end at the bow rail to attach to the anchor chain once the
anchor’s set. Worked fine, but if you ever have to slip your anchor in an
emergency – just drop it and run – you can’t do it. It’s a potentially very
dangerous situation, the kind that can cost you your boat of worse. Remind
me to photograph for you a better way to set up that snubber. Right now it’s
dawn on New Year’s Day and raining.Reef early,
Tor
SilverHeels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Dawn and Patrick,
Congratulations on your completed foredeck project. That’s a big one off the
list. At first I just shackled my anchor chain snubber to the pad eye,
stowing the other end at the bow rail to attach to the anchor chain once the
anchor’s set. Worked fine, but if you ever have to slip your anchor in an
emergency – just drop it and run – you can’t do it. It’s a potentially very
dangerous situation, the kind that can cost you your boat of worse. Remind
me to photograph for you a better way to set up that snubber. Right now it’s
dawn on New Year’s Day and raining.Reef early,
Tor
SilverHeels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Yes, you mentioned this before… You have a line through the bow eye and up
to your bow cleat I believe.
https://www.pearson424.org/bb2forum/viewtopic.php?p=5481&sid=67c821a8556673d24c661a5e33edeee3<https://www.pearson424.org/bb2forum/viewtopic.php?p=5481&sid=67c821a8556673d24c661a5e33edeee3>
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s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comOn Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 5:15 AM, SilverHeels <> wrote:
Quote:Dawn and Patrick,Congratulations on your completed foredeck project. That’s a big one off
the
list. At first I just shackled my anchor chain snubber to the pad eye,
stowing the other end at the bow rail to attach to the anchor chain once
the
anchor’s set. Worked fine, but if you ever have to slip your anchor in an
emergency – just drop it and run – you can’t do it. It’s a potentially very
dangerous situation, the kind that can cost you your boat of worse. Remind
me to photograph for you a better way to set up that snubber. Right now
it’s
dawn on New Year’s Day and raining.Reef early,
Tor
SilverHeels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
Damn, Pat, I can’t remember what I said yesterday, let alone in 2009. The
thread you referenced, however, was way before I figured out the line led to
the foredeck thing and, so, does not mention it. If I did describe it some
time more recently, then you already know what to do. Even if you just have
to suddenly scope out in a blow the snubber led as I’ve suggested makes it
possible, while still keeping the pull down near the waterline.Good luck,
Tor
SilverHeels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Pat,
I think we’re talking about two different stages of development with my
anchor chain snubber. On 09/24/2009 I wrote in that thread:==================
Regarding the anchor snubber, a line to a bow cleat is fine. However, if you
install a really strong eye bolt through the stem about a foot above the
waterline, then you can shackle a snubber line to that and leave it there.
Its bitter end (THE END THAT ATTACHES TO THE CHAIN) stows cleated to a bow
cleat (WHEN NOT IN USE). After you’ve set your anchor you affix the (BITTER
END OF THE) snubber (TO THE CHAIN) as you normally would and feed out enough
(ANCHOR CHAIN) rode so it (THE SNUBBER) takes up the strain, but now the
angle of pull on the anchor is much reduced (being 6′ closer to water
level). In effect, you’ve removed 6′ of “depth” from the rode:depth
equation, enabling you to either use less scope for a given depth of water,
or to achieve a higher scope to depth ratio “for free.”==================
I have added notes (IN UPPER CASE) to the above quote to make the statement
more clear. I hope this clarifies it for you.That was long before I realized the danger of that set-up, the inability to
scope out or (in a dire emergency) cast off the anchor chain entirely
without first retrieving 20′ of anchor chain and disconnecting the snubber.
There is simply no way to reach and disconnect the snubber line when it runs
from the near-waterline pad eye to the chain. What I’ve done now is to lead
the line through the pad eye to the chain. The boat end of the line is not
connected to the pad eye as it was on 09/24/2009. Instead, it runs through
the pad eye, up to and through a shackle at the forward end of the chain’s
anchor roller, aft through an eye that happened to be welded onto the after
outboard end of the chains anchor roller, and finally to a foredeck cleat.
This allows me to adjust the length of the snubber from the foredeck, or to
cast it lose in an emergency, but keeps the pull down at the near-waterline
pad eye, providing all the advantages of the low snubber without the
potentially dangerous disadvantage that existed on 09/24/2009.I mention all this because I have never seen anyone else do it. If not
unique, the adjustable/releasable snubber through a near-waterline pad eye
is at least unusual. Still, it’s worth considering since you’ve gone to the
trouble of installing the near-waterline pad eye. No point endangering your
beautiful boat when there’s such a simple remedy.Tor
SilverHeels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Hi Tor,
I had also been thinking about running a snubber line through a pad eye on the bow for all the reasons discussed. Glad to see you’ve already thought it out and debugged the process for me, but a question.
I have been very pleasantly surprised to see my 422 does not sail at the anchor when I run my anchor line over the bow roller. I mean not at all, point dead straight into the wind and stay that way even in a pretty good blow. When I added a snubber line I initially ran it through the bow chocks and started sailing all over the anchorage so ran the snubber over the the roller and back to steady.
So, first question, have you or anyone else had a similar experience? Does the 42 typically ride so well at anchor (certainly none of my other boats ever did so)? Then does moving the lead to the padeye down on the bow, other than giving a better/lower angle pull to the anchor, change the way the boat rides at anchor especially increase (or decrease) sailing?
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ALL: I spend about six months a year on the hook, and here’s what I’ve
found to be effective.
I used a 25ft., 3/4″ 3 strand line to make my snubber with the chain hook
secured midway with a slip knot, thereby creating two sections of snubber
leading to the one hook. Each section is lead over the respective chock, prt
& strb., to its adjacent cleat. The boat will not only dance less as
tension is transferred from one side to the other but benefit from greater shock
absorption, less strain on the hardware, and you’re still snubbed to a
cleat in case either a cleat or your cleating skills fail. You also have more
control, being able to winch in one side or the other in a blow, or let
out or retrieve line as conditions dictate. Futhermore, this arrangement
facilitates setting the anchor off the beam to counter act the effects of a
surge (another story altogether).
Also to cut down on dancing, try setting a double reefed mizzen as an
anchor sail – Tor has the scoop on that, I believe.FYI to ALL: I did not go south this year so as to stay and complete
renovations to my house. So CHARISMA is on the hard at Deltaville Boatyard where
my 25kg ROCNA was stolen, probably during this holiday week as the yard is
closed. NO one else lost an anchor to this thief SO I guess the moral here
is secure your ROCNAs! ($OUCH!$)Happy New Year, everybody, BILL
CAPT.BILL TICE~s/v CHARISMA, hull #120
writes:
Hi Tor,
I had also been thinking about running a snubber line through a pad eye on
the bow for all the reasons discussed. Glad to see you’ve already
thought it out and debugged the process for me, but a question.I have been very pleasantly surprised to see my 422 does not sail at the
anchor when I run my anchor line over the bow roller. I mean not at all,
point dead straight into the wind and stay that way even in a pretty good
blow. When I added a snubber line I initially ran it through the bow chocks
and started sailing all over the anchorage so ran the snubber over the the
roller and back to steady.So, first question, have you or anyone else had a similar experience?
Does the 42 typically ride so well at anchor (certainly none of my other
boats ever did so)? Then does moving the lead to the padeye down on the bow,
other than giving a better/lower angle pull to the anchor, change the way
the boat rides at anchor especially increase (or decrease) sailing?
m2f
Read this topic online here:
https://www.pearson424.org/bb2forum/viewtopic.php?p=8806#8806
m2f
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Hey Bill,
The double snubber is a good idea. I see it used a lot, on monohulls and (of
course) most often on cats.Regarding “setting the anchor off the beam to counteract the effects of a
surge (another story altogether),” there’s an article on the subject at
http://www.tor.cc/articles/rode.htm .Bummer about that anchor.
Tor
SilverHeels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Hi Skipmac,
The dancing at anchor probably came from moving the pull of the anchor
off-center on the hull. The farther to one side you place that force, the
more the boat will turn in relation to the wind. Physics 101. Running the
snubber from any center point, near-waterline pad eye or bow roller, or
running a double snubber evenly to port & starboard chocks, should keep the
boat nose to the wind and riding quietly.Tor
SilverHeels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Hi Skipmac,
The dancing at anchor probably came from moving the pull of the anchor
off-center on the hull. The farther to one side you place that force, the
more the boat will turn in relation to the wind. Physics 101. Running the
snubber from any center point, near-waterline pad eye or bow roller, or
running a double snubber evenly to port & starboard chocks, should keep the
boat nose to the wind and riding quietly.Tor
SilverHeels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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@SilverHeels wrote:
Hi Skipmac,
The dancing at anchor probably came from moving the pull of the anchor
off-center on the hull.Tor
SilverHeels, P-424 #17Exactly. What surprised me is how little the Pearson sailed at anchor. I’ve had a couple of boats with rollers and always ran the line or chain straight off the bow but still would hunt back and forth as much as 30-40 degrees from side to side. With the Pearson I never saw a 5 degree hunt at anchor.
So other than reducing the angle to the anchor did you see any difference in using the eye on the bow like pitching more or less in a choppy anchorage?
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I have never tested/compared a snubber off the near-waterline pad eye
directly against a snubber off the anchor roller, but I can’t imagine
there’d be much (if any) difference in the boat’s motion in a choppy
anchorage. There is certainly a difference in the angle of pull against the
anchor. Not sure why some boats sail at anchor, but as you have noted 424’s
do not.Tor
SilverHeels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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On Easy Reach, hull #205, when it was still mine, I used a double snubber of two twisted nylon lines from the forward cleats, through the chocks to a chain hook of the the kind recommended by Earl Hines (I’d give a page number, but my copy of the book was left on board for the new owner). Eventually the galvanized eye shackles yielded to rust and I cut the them off and started using rolling hitches, each line tied separately to the chain. I discovered after some years that the hook had worn the gavanizing off several chain links. The rolling hitches, of course, won’t do that.
I don’t think it is a good idea to run a line or chain off the end of the anchor sprit, unless someone can prove that the sprit will take loads the forward cleats will.
Norris Larson
— On Sun, 1/2/11, <> wrote:<.. snip>
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@norris larson wrote:
I discovered after some years that the hook had worn the galvanizing off several chain links. The rolling hitches, of course, won’t do that.
Have heard this from several sailors so tie in myself but use a Prussic Knot.
@norris larson wrote:
I don’t think it is a good idea to run a line or chain off the end of the anchor sprit, unless someone can prove that the sprit will take loads the forward cleats will.
That is a thought that occurred to me as well. Another reason to go for an eye on the bow. Meanwhile if anchored in a blow guess it’s a good idea to go with a bridle to the cleats.
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Norris,
I use a rolling hitch, too. Never thought about the galvanizing wearing off
– I’ve just never had a chain hook – but what you say makes sense. As for
proving the sprit – i.e., an anchor roller extension – will take loads the
forward cleats will, I’m sure it won’t. But in my experience it will take
the loads necessary to hold an anchored boat in all conditions.Tor
SilverHeels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Bill
I’ve been suggesting that equal-length pennants is a bad idea for many
years. Almost everybody seems to use them except me. This is odd, since
the document linked below is published in our area. Marblehead harbor is
open to the northeast. Here in New England, the bad weather blows from the
northeast. This makes the harbor particularly dangerous. My 424 sank there
when her mooring chain broke before I owned her. There were eight foot
braking waves in the harbor during that storm. I bought her after she was
rebuilt.http://www.inamarmarine.com/pdf/Moorings.pdf
“No mooring system is complete without a safety
pennant. Some harbors require safety or secondary
pennants. This extra line is inexpensive compared
to the cost of your insurance policy deductible.
The safety pennant should be of equal size
(diameter and strength) and 25%, or three feet
longer (whichever is less) than the primary pennant.
The theory is that the safety pennant will be in
“perfect” condition when the primary fails.
Marblehead has studied this issue and requires
two primary pennants of line, the longer one
being the safety pennant. During Hurricane Bob,
Burr Brothers Boats, in Marion, Massachusetts,
used a storm pennant of 5/8″ poly-reinforced wire
on their vessels which proved to be very successful.
Experience has shown that the primary (or shorter)
pennant should have the chafe gear run from eye
to eye, to prevent it from slipping out of the chock.
The length of the pennant described in many
standards is given as 2.5 times the height of the
free board. At some harbors, the pennant size and
length are based on vessel length.”Rich
Quote:
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Rich,
A mooring safety pennant is smart – I add one on the rare occasions I pick
up a mooring – but I believe Bill was talking about two equal-length anchor
chain snubbers (or pennants) to divide the holding force of the anchor
between two deck cleats. Here the anchor chain itself is the safety
connection.Tor
SilverHeels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Thanks, Tor, for the rescue!
Rich is certainly correct and offers good advice re: mooring pennants, but
this is a snubber matter (HA). (sorry). I am usually aboard while
anchored, and certainly in a blow. Were I to lose one snubber for whatever reason,
the other snubs the boat until I can tie on my backup and release
additional chain & scope on the remaining snubber.
PS: RE: my being winter land-locked in VA, someone has come to my rescue
and offered me a boat sitting gig in George Town for 2 weeks – on the 17th,
I’m outta here!BILL TICE~in residence ~*I*I*TREEHOUSE *I*I*I*~ Smith Mt. Lake, VA
In a message dated 1/4/2011 10:29:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
writes:Rich,
A mooring safety pennant is smart – I add one on the rare occasions I pick
up a mooring – but I believe Bill was talking about two equal-length anchor
chain snubbers (or pennants) to divide the holding force of the anchor
between two deck cleats. Here the anchor chain itself is the safety
connection.Tor
SilverHeels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Yahoo, boat-sitting in George Town! That’s a sweet deal this time of year,
the perfect Bahamian holiday for the cost of the airfare.Have fun,
Tor
http://www.silverheels.us
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On holding chafing gear in place–I would poke two holes near the end of the poly tube or canvas sheath, run a stout line of small stuff grough the holes, and belay the end of the line to the mooring cleat to hold the tube or canvas in place. I suppose the gear could move back up towards the cleat.
I’ve often thought about the problem of heat build up inside a poly tube. I decided that if we ever waiting for a blow at anchor that I would drill holes in the tube, allowing water to cone in contact witht he rope, thus cooling it.
Norris Larson, PO of Easy Reach, hull # 206.— On Tue, 1/4/11, SilverHeels <> wrote:
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