Forums › General Discussion › 12v in-line fuel pump

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    • #67046
      Anonymous

      I have had random engine failures when idling for long
      period of time on my old Westerbeke. After a bleeding
      session the engine runs fine. I am considering
      installing an in-line 12v fuel pump to increase fuel
      flow.
      Questions
      1. Any recommendations on a Pump.
      2. Do you install it before or after the Racor
      filters?
      3. Is it wired to activate with the ignition switch?

      Thanks for any ideas you old salts may have.

      Bill Emberley
      Running Tab
      P424 #86


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    • #70125
      sumocean
      Participant

      Bill

      My Cummins came with an electric pump installed. It is after the Racor. It
      is energized by the key switch. I have no idea of the brand but when I was
      draining the old tank to remove it I used a $40 universal fuel pump from
      NAPA that worked just fine. I think that any fuel pump would work just
      fine.
      You have obviously changed the fuel filters and checked that the lift pump
      is working in your bleeding process. I wish I’d saved the pump from my old
      engine so you could swap them out and see if that was the problem. Good
      luck with it.

      Linus


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    • #70126
      Chuck Ruble
      Participant

      W58 for W60?

      On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Bill Emberley < ([email][/email])> wrote:

      I have had random engine failures when idling for long
      period of time on my old Westerbeke. After a bleeding
      session the engine runs fine. I am considering
      installing an in-line 12v fuel pump to increase fuel
      flow.
      Questions
      1. Any recommendations on a Pump.
      2. Do you install it before or after the Racor
      filters?
      3. Is it wired to activate with the ignition switch?

      Thanks for any ideas you old salts may have.

      Bill Emberley
      Running Tab
      P424 #86


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    • #70127
      Anonymous

      She’s a 58.
      — Chuck Ruble <> wrote:

      W58 for W60?

      On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Bill Emberley
      <>
      wrote:

      I have had random engine failures when idling for

      long

      period of time on my old Westerbeke. After a

      bleeding

      session the engine runs fine. I am considering
      installing an in-line 12v fuel pump to increase

      fuel

      flow.
      Questions
      1. Any recommendations on a Pump.
      2. Do you install it before or after the Racor
      filters?
      3. Is it wired to activate with the ignition

      switch?

      Thanks for any ideas you old salts may have.

      Bill Emberley
      Running Tab
      P424 #86


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      Alameda, CA 94501

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      Cell 415-279-1340


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    • #70128
      Anonymous

      Thanks Linus,
      I’m going to install a pump (with a switch), after the
      racors. One of my sailing friends is from Israel and
      was a tank commander in the military. He said that
      they installed DC fuel pumps on their tanks deisels
      for bleeding and better flow in desert conditions.
      It sure saves on pumping when the engine chokes out.
      Live and Learn.
      -Bill
      — Linus Sumocean <> wrote:

      Quote:
      Bill

      My Cummins came with an electric pump installed. It
      is after the Racor. It
      is energized by the key switch. I have no idea of
      the brand but when I was
      draining the old tank to remove it I used a $40
      universal fuel pump from
      NAPA that worked just fine. I think that any fuel
      pump would work just
      fine.
      You have obviously changed the fuel filters and
      checked that the lift pump
      is working in your bleeding process. I wish I’d
      saved the pump from my old
      engine so you could swap them out and see if that
      was the problem. Good
      luck with it.

      Linus


      <.. snip>

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    • #70130
      madsailor
      Moderator

      Hi Bill,

      It sounds as if you have an air leak in the system that the normal flow at speed will cover. Not a big one. Find that first.

      If there's an air leak in the fuel system, all installing a pump will do is make the system leak positively. Sure, the engine will idle, but you'll also be putting fuel in the bilge.

      There is already a booster pump on the engine. You could use another one on the fuel tank where the cut-off solenoid is, if it's still there. If not, there are already wires for a pump or whatever that is turned on with the ignition.

      Bob

      On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Bill Emberley < ([email][/email])> wrote:

      I have had random engine failures when idling for long
      period of time on my old Westerbeke. After a bleeding
      session the engine runs fine. I am considering
      installing an in-line 12v fuel pump to increase fuel
      flow.
      Questions
      1. Any recommendations on a Pump.
      2. Do you install it before or after the Racor
      filters?
      3. Is it wired to activate with the ignition switch?

      Thanks for any ideas you old salts may have.

      Bill Emberley
      Running Tab
      P424 #86


      To unsubscribe, e-mail: ()
      For additional commands, e-mail: ()

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      Bob Fine
      Fine Software LLC
      Your data on the web your way. No kidding

      Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

    • #70131
      Anonymous

      My Westerbeke 58 has a low pressure fuel pump as part of the injection pump. This pump failed this winter and I installed an inexpensive pump sfter the Racor filter and ran the boat all winter using a pump I got from NAPA. This pump is wired in with a switch that I can choose to have it come on with the key or I can activate it separately. It is invaluable if you have to bleed the engine for any reason. Jim

      — wrote:

      <.. snip>

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    • #70132
      Anonymous

      Hi Bob,
      Your email prompted me to do a thorough check for
      leaks then a system bleed. Discovery- #3 fuel pipe
      compression fitting at the injector gave up the ghost
      and is at least one of the air leaks. I had the #1
      fuel line go out a few years back and had a repair job
      done that has held to this day. In any case I think
      it is time to replace all.
      Any ideas on where I could get a new set? My local
      source said it would be difficult to find, and costly.
      I just want to eliminate any potential air leak
      problems.
      Had an great sail today on San Francisco Bay. Warm
      and sunny. Winds SW at 25-30. Just right for the 424.
      -Bill
      — Robert Fine <> wrote:

      Hi Bill,

      It sounds as if you have an air leak in the system
      that the normal flow at
      speed will cover. Not a big one. Find that first.

      If there’s an air leak in the fuel system, all
      installing a pump will do is
      make the system leak positively. Sure, the engine
      will idle, but you’ll
      also be putting fuel in the bilge.

      There is already a booster pump on the engine. You
      could use another one on
      the fuel tank where the cut-off solenoid is, if it’s
      still there. If not,
      there are already wires for a pump or whatever that
      is turned on with the
      ignition.

      Bob

      On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Bill Emberley
      <>
      wrote:

      I have had random engine failures when idling for

      long

      period of time on my old Westerbeke. After a

      bleeding

      session the engine runs fine. I am considering
      installing an in-line 12v fuel pump to increase

      fuel

      flow.
      Questions
      1. Any recommendations on a Pump.
      2. Do you install it before or after the Racor
      filters?
      3. Is it wired to activate with the ignition

      switch?

      Thanks for any ideas you old salts may have.

      Bill Emberley
      Running Tab
      P424 #86


      To unsubscribe, e-mail:

      For additional commands, e-mail:

      —
      Bob Fine
      Fine Software LLC
      Your data on the web your way. No kidding

      Edit One Productions, Inc.
      2310 Clement Avenue
      Alameda, CA 94501

      Studio 510-814-9519
      Fax 510-814-6945
      Cell 415-279-1340


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    • #70133
      Chuck Ruble
      Participant

      Bill, try Thornycroft in the UK. I've got some used ones here. I suspect you'd prefer new.

      On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Bill Emberley < ([email][/email])> wrote:

      Hi Bob,
      Your email prompted me to do a thorough check for
      leaks then a system bleed. Discovery- #3 fuel pipe
      compression fitting at the injector gave up the ghost
      and is at least one of the air leaks. I had the #1
      fuel line go out a few years back and had a repair job
      done that has held to this day. In any case I think
      it is time to replace all.
      Any ideas on where I could get a new set? My local
      source said it would be difficult to find, and costly.
      I just want to eliminate any potential air leak
      problems.
      Had an great sail today on San Francisco Bay. Warm
      and sunny. Winds SW at 25-30. Just right for the 424.
      -Bill

      — Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:

      Hi Bill,

      It sounds as if you have an air leak in the system
      that the normal flow at
      speed will cover. Not a big one. Find that first.

      If there's an air leak in the fuel system, all
      installing a pump will do is
      make the system leak positively. Sure, the engine
      will idle, but you'll
      also be putting fuel in the bilge.

      There is already a booster pump on the engine. You
      could use another one on
      the fuel tank where the cut-off solenoid is, if it's
      still there. If not,
      there are already wires for a pump or whatever that
      is turned on with the
      ignition.

      Bob

      On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Bill Emberley
      < ([email][/email])>
      wrote:

      I have had random engine failures when idling for

      long

      period of time on my old Westerbeke. After a

      bleeding

      session the engine runs fine. I am considering
      installing an in-line 12v fuel pump to increase

      fuel

      flow.
      Questions
      1. Any recommendations on a Pump.
      2. Do you install it before or after the Racor
      filters?
      3. Is it wired to activate with the ignition

      switch?

      Thanks for any ideas you old salts may have.

      Bill Emberley
      Running Tab
      P424 #86


      To unsubscribe, e-mail:

      ()

      For additional commands, e-mail:

      ()

      —
      Bob Fine
      Fine Software LLC
      Your data on the web your way. No kidding

      Edit One Productions, Inc.
      2310 Clement Avenue
      Alameda, CA 94501

      Studio 510-814-9519
      Fax 510-814-6945
      Cell 415-279-1340


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    • #70134
      Chuck Ruble
      Participant

      Whoops, nevermind. See above its a W58.

      On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 9:45 PM, Chuck Ruble < ([email][/email])> wrote:

      Bill, try Thornycroft in the UK. I've got some used ones here. I suspect you'd prefer new.

      On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Bill Emberley < ([email][/email])> wrote:

      Hi Bob,
      Your email prompted me to do a thorough check for
      leaks then a system bleed. Discovery- #3 fuel pipe
      compression fitting at the injector gave up the ghost
      and is at least one of the air leaks. I had the #1
      fuel line go out a few years back and had a repair job
      done that has held to this day. In any case I think
      it is time to replace all.
      Any ideas on where I could get a new set? My local
      source said it would be difficult to find, and costly.
      I just want to eliminate any potential air leak
      problems.
      Had an great sail today on San Francisco Bay. Warm
      and sunny. Winds SW at 25-30. Just right for the 424.
      -Bill

      — Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:

      Hi Bill,

      It sounds as if you have an air leak in the system
      that the normal flow at
      speed will cover. Not a big one. Find that first.

      If there's an air leak in the fuel system, all
      installing a pump will do is
      make the system leak positively. Sure, the engine
      will idle, but you'll
      also be putting fuel in the bilge.

      There is already a booster pump on the engine. You
      could use another one on
      the fuel tank where the cut-off solenoid is, if it's
      still there. If not,
      there are already wires for a pump or whatever that
      is turned on with the
      ignition.

      Bob

      On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Bill Emberley
      < ([email][/email])>
      wrote:

      I have had random engine failures when idling for

      long

      period of time on my old Westerbeke. After a

      bleeding

      session the engine runs fine. I am considering
      installing an in-line 12v fuel pump to increase

      fuel

      flow.
      Questions
      1. Any recommendations on a Pump.
      2. Do you install it before or after the Racor
      filters?
      3. Is it wired to activate with the ignition

      switch?

      Thanks for any ideas you old salts may have.

      Bill Emberley
      Running Tab
      P424 #86


      To unsubscribe, e-mail:

      ()

      For additional commands, e-mail:

      ()

      —
      Bob Fine
      Fine Software LLC
      Your data on the web your way. No kidding

      Edit One Productions, Inc.
      2310 Clement Avenue
      Alameda, CA 94501

      Studio 510-814-9519
      Fax 510-814-6945
      Cell 415-279-1340


      To unsubscribe, e-mail: ()
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    • #70135
      madsailor
      Moderator

      Hi Bill,

      I had a great sail on Long Island Sound yesterday morning, too – probably not as boisterous as SF Bay, but still nice. Then it got really hot and windless.

      I think I mentioned a parts dealer in one of my other posts for Westerbeke parts. I'm sure you can get new ones. Let me see if I can find it again. But the W58 is a Mazda industrial engine, so if we can figure out which one, we'd be good to go.

      On fuel pipe compression fittings:

      Two things happen to make them fail. They are used as bleed points (which is usually unnecessary) and they are tightened too much. They're actually pretty delicate and require something in the range of inch-pounds of torque. It's the sealing surface that makes the connection.

      Anyway, if you can't find them new (and I'm sure Westerbeke sells them), a competent diesel mechanic can make new ones.

      Bob

      On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 6:09 PM, Bill Emberley < ([email][/email])> wrote:

      Hi Bob,
      Your email prompted me to do a thorough check for
      leaks then a system bleed. Discovery- #3 fuel pipe
      compression fitting at the injector gave up the ghost
      and is at least one of the air leaks. I had the #1
      fuel line go out a few years back and had a repair job
      done that has held to this day. In any case I think
      it is time to replace all.
      Any ideas on where I could get a new set? My local
      source said it would be difficult to find, and costly.
      I just want to eliminate any potential air leak
      problems.
      Had an great sail today on San Francisco Bay. Warm
      and sunny. Winds SW at 25-30. Just right for the 424.
      -Bill

      — Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:

      Hi Bill,

      It sounds as if you have an air leak in the system
      that the normal flow at
      speed will cover. Not a big one. Find that first.

      If there's an air leak in the fuel system, all
      installing a pump will do is
      make the system leak positively. Sure, the engine
      will idle, but you'll
      also be putting fuel in the bilge.

      There is already a booster pump on the engine. You
      could use another one on
      the fuel tank where the cut-off solenoid is, if it's
      still there. If not,
      there are already wires for a pump or whatever that
      is turned on with the
      ignition.

      Bob

      On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Bill Emberley
      < ([email][/email])>
      wrote:

      I have had random engine failures when idling for

      long

      period of time on my old Westerbeke. After a

      bleeding

      session the engine runs fine. I am considering
      installing an in-line 12v fuel pump to increase

      fuel

      flow.
      Questions
      1. Any recommendations on a Pump.
      2. Do you install it before or after the Racor
      filters?
      3. Is it wired to activate with the ignition

      switch?

      Thanks for any ideas you old salts may have.

      Bill Emberley
      Running Tab
      P424 #86


      To unsubscribe, e-mail:

      ()

      For additional commands, e-mail:

      ()

      —
      Bob Fine
      Fine Software LLC
      Your data on the web your way. No kidding

      Edit One Productions, Inc.
      2310 Clement Avenue
      Alameda, CA 94501

      Studio 510-814-9519
      Fax 510-814-6945
      Cell 415-279-1340


      To unsubscribe, e-mail: ()
      For additional commands, e-mail: ()

      —
      Bob Fine
      Fine Software LLC
      Your data on the web your way. No kidding

      Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum

    • #70136
      Chuck Ruble
      Participant

      Bill, here's who I purchased some of my W60 parts from. http://www.engines1.com/. They are in Norfolk VA.
      Torrensen lists them on thier site for $62.50 each provided they are available.
      http://www.marinedieseldirect.com/catalogs/catalog_group.php?owner=mdd&page_ident=24577-236-237&model=W58%20Propulsion%20/%2020%20KW%20Generator&manufacturer=Westerbeke&title=Fuel%20System&quant_position=&catalog=24577&printparts=&printservice=&printoperators=&comment1=

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    • #70143
      RichCarter
      Participant

      I installed a 12V pump when I had my old W60. It can be seen to the left of the transmission in the attached photo. It is after the Racor and before the lift pump. It runs off the key switch. If the electric pump fails, it will not interfere with operation of the manual pump. I purchased it at the local auto parts store for about $30. I can’t quite read the part number from the photo. As I remember, there are two generic pumps like this. One pumps more fuel than the other. I don’t remember which I purchased. The pump is in my spare parts bin. If I think of it, I’ll send out the part number.

      —
      Rich Carter


      Original message


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    • #70139
      madsailor
      Moderator

      Hi Rich,

      I notice you have a shaft brake disk, but the rest of it is missing. It looks like you have the same transmission I have – the Paragon one. My manual says it's ok to let it rotate except in reverse.

      Is it just the device is off for whatever you're doing, or do you let it rotate as well?

      Bob

      On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 6:48 AM, < ([email][/email])> wrote:

      Quote:
      I installed a 12V pump when I had my old W60. It can be seen to the left of the transmission in the attached photo. It is after the Racor and before the lift pump. It runs off the key switch. If the electric pump fails, it will not interfere with operation of the manual pump. I purchased it at the local auto parts store for about $30. I can't quite read the part number from the photo. As I remember, there are two generic pumps like this. One pumps more fuel than the other. I don't remember which I purchased. The pump is in my spare parts bin. If I think of it, I'll send out the part number.

      —
      Rich Carter


      Original message


      <.. snip>

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    • #70141
      RichCarter
      Participant

      Bob
      The lift pump on my old W60 got weak a few years back. I found that the engine would sometimes run rough when the fuel tank was low, but always ran fine with a full tank. I attributed this to a bad lift pump. I could have rebuilt it at the cost of several hundred, but I instead added a second fuel pump for about $30. This also made bleeding the injectors much easier.

      Installing the pump before the Racor might make changing filters easier, but it would be a little more difficult installation since the fuel lines are all copper there. Installing it in rubber fuel line is very straightforward taking maybe an hour including wiring. If you put it before the Racor, you’d have to use compression fittings and you’d have to cut the copper fuel lines.

      My new engine has a manual plunger pump on the top of the fuel filter. This makes priming the filters easy. The new engines are all self-bleeding too. I didn’t bother to reinstall the electric fuel pump.

      —
      Rich Carter


      Original message


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    • #70142
      RichCarter
      Participant

      Bob
      I can’t speak about the Paragon transmission since I have no experience with it. The Velvet-Drive should not be freewheeled. Allowing it to do so will cause it to fail.

      I don’t need a brake because I have a 3-blade folding prop. I’d rather not part with the old brake however. I’m very happy with my propeller and have no plans to replace it. You never know, at some point in the future I might replace it with a feathering or fixed unit. Some feathering props freewheel; others don’t.
      —
      Rich Carter


      Original message


      <.. snip>

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    • #70144
      Anonymous

      Thanks Rich,
      I’m off to the Auto parts store a look see. today. I’ll report back.
      Bill

      wrote:

      Quote:
      I installed a 12V pump when I had my old W60. It can be seen to the left of the transmission in the attached photo. It is after the Racor and before the lift pump. It runs off the key switch. If the electric pump fails, it will not interfere with operation of the manual pump. I purchased it at the local auto parts store for about $30. I can’t quite read the part number from the photo. As I remember, there are two generic pumps like this. One pumps more fuel than the other. I don’t remember which I purchased. The pump is in my spare parts bin. If I think of it, I’ll send out the part number.

      —
      Rich Carter


      Original message


      <.. snip>

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