12v in-line fuel pump

[Anonymous]

I have had random engine failures when idling for long
period of time on my old Westerbeke. After a bleeding
session the engine runs fine. I am considering
installing an in-line 12v fuel pump to increase fuel
flow.
Questions
1. Any recommendations on a Pump.
2. Do you install it before or after the Racor
filters?
3. Is it wired to activate with the ignition switch?

Thanks for any ideas you old salts may have.

Bill Emberley
Running Tab
P424 #86

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[sumocean]

Bill

My Cummins came with an electric pump installed. It is after the Racor. It
is energized by the key switch. I have no idea of the brand but when I was
draining the old tank to remove it I used a $40 universal fuel pump from
NAPA that worked just fine. I think that any fuel pump would work just
fine.
You have obviously changed the fuel filters and checked that the lift pump
is working in your bleeding process. I wish I’d saved the pump from my old
engine so you could swap them out and see if that was the problem. Good
luck with it.

Linus

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[Chuck Ruble]

W58 for W60?

On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Bill Emberley < ([email][/email])> wrote:

I have had random engine failures when idling for long
period of time on my old Westerbeke. After a bleeding
session the engine runs fine. I am considering
installing an in-line 12v fuel pump to increase fuel
flow.
Questions
1. Any recommendations on a Pump.
2. Do you install it before or after the Racor
filters?
3. Is it wired to activate with the ignition switch?

Thanks for any ideas you old salts may have.

Bill Emberley
Running Tab
P424 #86

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[Anonymous]

She’s a 58.
— Chuck Ruble <> wrote:

W58 for W60?

On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Bill Emberley
<>
wrote:

I have had random engine failures when idling for

long

period of time on my old Westerbeke. After a

bleeding

session the engine runs fine. I am considering
installing an in-line 12v fuel pump to increase

fuel

flow.
Questions
1. Any recommendations on a Pump.
2. Do you install it before or after the Racor
filters?
3. Is it wired to activate with the ignition

switch?

Thanks for any ideas you old salts may have.

Bill Emberley
Running Tab
P424 #86

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Cell 415-279-1340

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[Anonymous]

Thanks Linus,
I’m going to install a pump (with a switch), after the
racors. One of my sailing friends is from Israel and
was a tank commander in the military. He said that
they installed DC fuel pumps on their tanks deisels
for bleeding and better flow in desert conditions.
It sure saves on pumping when the engine chokes out.
Live and Learn.
-Bill
— Linus Sumocean <> wrote:

Quote:

Bill

My Cummins came with an electric pump installed. It
is after the Racor. It
is energized by the key switch. I have no idea of
the brand but when I was
draining the old tank to remove it I used a $40
universal fuel pump from
NAPA that worked just fine. I think that any fuel
pump would work just
fine.
You have obviously changed the fuel filters and
checked that the lift pump
is working in your bleeding process. I wish I’d
saved the pump from my old
engine so you could swap them out and see if that
was the problem. Good
luck with it.

Linus

---

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[madsailor]

Hi Bill,

It sounds as if you have an air leak in the system that the normal flow at speed will cover. Not a big one. Find that first.

If there's an air leak in the fuel system, all installing a pump will do is make the system leak positively. Sure, the engine will idle, but you'll also be putting fuel in the bilge.

There is already a booster pump on the engine. You could use another one on the fuel tank where the cut-off solenoid is, if it's still there. If not, there are already wires for a pump or whatever that is turned on with the ignition.

Bob

On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Bill Emberley < ([email][/email])> wrote:

I have had random engine failures when idling for long
period of time on my old Westerbeke. After a bleeding
session the engine runs fine. I am considering
installing an in-line 12v fuel pump to increase fuel
flow.
Questions
1. Any recommendations on a Pump.
2. Do you install it before or after the Racor
filters?
3. Is it wired to activate with the ignition switch?

Thanks for any ideas you old salts may have.

Bill Emberley
Running Tab
P424 #86

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—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kidding

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[Anonymous]

My Westerbeke 58 has a low pressure fuel pump as part of the injection pump. This pump failed this winter and I installed an inexpensive pump sfter the Racor filter and ran the boat all winter using a pump I got from NAPA. This pump is wired in with a switch that I can choose to have it come on with the key or I can activate it separately. It is invaluable if you have to bleed the engine for any reason. Jim

— wrote:

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[Anonymous]

Hi Bob,
Your email prompted me to do a thorough check for
leaks then a system bleed. Discovery- #3 fuel pipe
compression fitting at the injector gave up the ghost
and is at least one of the air leaks. I had the #1
fuel line go out a few years back and had a repair job
done that has held to this day. In any case I think
it is time to replace all.
Any ideas on where I could get a new set? My local
source said it would be difficult to find, and costly.
I just want to eliminate any potential air leak
problems.
Had an great sail today on San Francisco Bay. Warm
and sunny. Winds SW at 25-30. Just right for the 424.
-Bill
— Robert Fine <> wrote:

Hi Bill,

It sounds as if you have an air leak in the system
that the normal flow at
speed will cover. Not a big one. Find that first.

If there’s an air leak in the fuel system, all
installing a pump will do is
make the system leak positively. Sure, the engine
will idle, but you’ll
also be putting fuel in the bilge.

There is already a booster pump on the engine. You
could use another one on
the fuel tank where the cut-off solenoid is, if it’s
still there. If not,
there are already wires for a pump or whatever that
is turned on with the
ignition.

Bob

On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Bill Emberley
<>
wrote:

I have had random engine failures when idling for

long

period of time on my old Westerbeke. After a

bleeding

session the engine runs fine. I am considering
installing an in-line 12v fuel pump to increase

fuel

flow.
Questions
1. Any recommendations on a Pump.
2. Do you install it before or after the Racor
filters?
3. Is it wired to activate with the ignition

switch?

Thanks for any ideas you old salts may have.

Bill Emberley
Running Tab
P424 #86

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—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kidding

Edit One Productions, Inc.
2310 Clement Avenue
Alameda, CA 94501

Studio 510-814-9519
Fax 510-814-6945
Cell 415-279-1340

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[Chuck Ruble]

Bill, try Thornycroft in the UK. I've got some used ones here. I suspect you'd prefer new.

On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Bill Emberley < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Hi Bob,
Your email prompted me to do a thorough check for
leaks then a system bleed. Discovery- #3 fuel pipe
compression fitting at the injector gave up the ghost
and is at least one of the air leaks. I had the #1
fuel line go out a few years back and had a repair job
done that has held to this day. In any case I think
it is time to replace all.
Any ideas on where I could get a new set? My local
source said it would be difficult to find, and costly.
I just want to eliminate any potential air leak
problems.
Had an great sail today on San Francisco Bay. Warm
and sunny. Winds SW at 25-30. Just right for the 424.
-Bill

— Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Hi Bill,

It sounds as if you have an air leak in the system
that the normal flow at
speed will cover. Not a big one. Find that first.

If there's an air leak in the fuel system, all
installing a pump will do is
make the system leak positively. Sure, the engine
will idle, but you'll
also be putting fuel in the bilge.

There is already a booster pump on the engine. You
could use another one on
the fuel tank where the cut-off solenoid is, if it's
still there. If not,
there are already wires for a pump or whatever that
is turned on with the
ignition.

Bob

On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Bill Emberley
< ([email][/email])>
wrote:

I have had random engine failures when idling for

long

period of time on my old Westerbeke. After a

bleeding

session the engine runs fine. I am considering
installing an in-line 12v fuel pump to increase

fuel

flow.
Questions
1. Any recommendations on a Pump.
2. Do you install it before or after the Racor
filters?
3. Is it wired to activate with the ignition

switch?

Thanks for any ideas you old salts may have.

Bill Emberley
Running Tab
P424 #86

---

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()

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()

—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kidding

Edit One Productions, Inc.
2310 Clement Avenue
Alameda, CA 94501

Studio 510-814-9519
Fax 510-814-6945
Cell 415-279-1340

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[Chuck Ruble]

Whoops, nevermind. See above its a W58.

On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 9:45 PM, Chuck Ruble < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Bill, try Thornycroft in the UK. I've got some used ones here. I suspect you'd prefer new.

On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Bill Emberley < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Hi Bob,
Your email prompted me to do a thorough check for
leaks then a system bleed. Discovery- #3 fuel pipe
compression fitting at the injector gave up the ghost
and is at least one of the air leaks. I had the #1
fuel line go out a few years back and had a repair job
done that has held to this day. In any case I think
it is time to replace all.
Any ideas on where I could get a new set? My local
source said it would be difficult to find, and costly.
I just want to eliminate any potential air leak
problems.
Had an great sail today on San Francisco Bay. Warm
and sunny. Winds SW at 25-30. Just right for the 424.
-Bill

— Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Hi Bill,

It sounds as if you have an air leak in the system
that the normal flow at
speed will cover. Not a big one. Find that first.

If there's an air leak in the fuel system, all
installing a pump will do is
make the system leak positively. Sure, the engine
will idle, but you'll
also be putting fuel in the bilge.

There is already a booster pump on the engine. You
could use another one on
the fuel tank where the cut-off solenoid is, if it's
still there. If not,
there are already wires for a pump or whatever that
is turned on with the
ignition.

Bob

On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Bill Emberley
< ([email][/email])>
wrote:

I have had random engine failures when idling for

long

period of time on my old Westerbeke. After a

bleeding

session the engine runs fine. I am considering
installing an in-line 12v fuel pump to increase

fuel

flow.
Questions
1. Any recommendations on a Pump.
2. Do you install it before or after the Racor
filters?
3. Is it wired to activate with the ignition

switch?

Thanks for any ideas you old salts may have.

Bill Emberley
Running Tab
P424 #86

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()

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()

—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kidding

Edit One Productions, Inc.
2310 Clement Avenue
Alameda, CA 94501

Studio 510-814-9519
Fax 510-814-6945
Cell 415-279-1340

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[madsailor]

Hi Bill,

I had a great sail on Long Island Sound yesterday morning, too – probably not as boisterous as SF Bay, but still nice. Then it got really hot and windless.

I think I mentioned a parts dealer in one of my other posts for Westerbeke parts. I'm sure you can get new ones. Let me see if I can find it again. But the W58 is a Mazda industrial engine, so if we can figure out which one, we'd be good to go.

On fuel pipe compression fittings:

Two things happen to make them fail. They are used as bleed points (which is usually unnecessary) and they are tightened too much. They're actually pretty delicate and require something in the range of inch-pounds of torque. It's the sealing surface that makes the connection.

Anyway, if you can't find them new (and I'm sure Westerbeke sells them), a competent diesel mechanic can make new ones.

Bob

On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 6:09 PM, Bill Emberley < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Hi Bob,
Your email prompted me to do a thorough check for
leaks then a system bleed. Discovery- #3 fuel pipe
compression fitting at the injector gave up the ghost
and is at least one of the air leaks. I had the #1
fuel line go out a few years back and had a repair job
done that has held to this day. In any case I think
it is time to replace all.
Any ideas on where I could get a new set? My local
source said it would be difficult to find, and costly.
I just want to eliminate any potential air leak
problems.
Had an great sail today on San Francisco Bay. Warm
and sunny. Winds SW at 25-30. Just right for the 424.
-Bill

— Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Hi Bill,

It sounds as if you have an air leak in the system
that the normal flow at
speed will cover. Not a big one. Find that first.

If there's an air leak in the fuel system, all
installing a pump will do is
make the system leak positively. Sure, the engine
will idle, but you'll
also be putting fuel in the bilge.

There is already a booster pump on the engine. You
could use another one on
the fuel tank where the cut-off solenoid is, if it's
still there. If not,
there are already wires for a pump or whatever that
is turned on with the
ignition.

Bob

On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Bill Emberley
< ([email][/email])>
wrote:

I have had random engine failures when idling for

long

period of time on my old Westerbeke. After a

bleeding

session the engine runs fine. I am considering
installing an in-line 12v fuel pump to increase

fuel

flow.
Questions
1. Any recommendations on a Pump.
2. Do you install it before or after the Racor
filters?
3. Is it wired to activate with the ignition

switch?

Thanks for any ideas you old salts may have.

Bill Emberley
Running Tab
P424 #86

---

To unsubscribe, e-mail:

()

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()

—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kidding

Edit One Productions, Inc.
2310 Clement Avenue
Alameda, CA 94501

Studio 510-814-9519
Fax 510-814-6945
Cell 415-279-1340

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Fine Software LLC
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[Chuck Ruble]

Bill, here's who I purchased some of my W60 parts from. http://www.engines1.com/. They are in Norfolk VA.
Torrensen lists them on thier site for $62.50 each provided they are available.
http://www.marinedieseldirect.com/catalogs/catalog_group.php?owner=mdd&page_ident=24577-236-237&model=W58%20Propulsion%20/%2020%20KW%20Generator&manufacturer=Westerbeke&title=Fuel%20System&quant_position=&catalog=24577&printparts=&printservice=&printoperators=&comment1=

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[RichCarter]

I installed a 12V pump when I had my old W60. It can be seen to the left of the transmission in the attached photo. It is after the Racor and before the lift pump. It runs off the key switch. If the electric pump fails, it will not interfere with operation of the manual pump. I purchased it at the local auto parts store for about $30. I can’t quite read the part number from the photo. As I remember, there are two generic pumps like this. One pumps more fuel than the other. I don’t remember which I purchased. The pump is in my spare parts bin. If I think of it, I’ll send out the part number.

—
Rich Carter

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[madsailor]

Hi Rich,

I notice you have a shaft brake disk, but the rest of it is missing. It looks like you have the same transmission I have – the Paragon one. My manual says it's ok to let it rotate except in reverse.

Is it just the device is off for whatever you're doing, or do you let it rotate as well?

Bob

On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 6:48 AM, < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Quote:

I installed a 12V pump when I had my old W60. It can be seen to the left of the transmission in the attached photo. It is after the Racor and before the lift pump. It runs off the key switch. If the electric pump fails, it will not interfere with operation of the manual pump. I purchased it at the local auto parts store for about $30. I can't quite read the part number from the photo. As I remember, there are two generic pumps like this. One pumps more fuel than the other. I don't remember which I purchased. The pump is in my spare parts bin. If I think of it, I'll send out the part number.

—
Rich Carter

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[RichCarter]

Bob
The lift pump on my old W60 got weak a few years back. I found that the engine would sometimes run rough when the fuel tank was low, but always ran fine with a full tank. I attributed this to a bad lift pump. I could have rebuilt it at the cost of several hundred, but I instead added a second fuel pump for about $30. This also made bleeding the injectors much easier.

Installing the pump before the Racor might make changing filters easier, but it would be a little more difficult installation since the fuel lines are all copper there. Installing it in rubber fuel line is very straightforward taking maybe an hour including wiring. If you put it before the Racor, you’d have to use compression fittings and you’d have to cut the copper fuel lines.

My new engine has a manual plunger pump on the top of the fuel filter. This makes priming the filters easy. The new engines are all self-bleeding too. I didn’t bother to reinstall the electric fuel pump.

—
Rich Carter

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[RichCarter]

Bob
I can’t speak about the Paragon transmission since I have no experience with it. The Velvet-Drive should not be freewheeled. Allowing it to do so will cause it to fail.

I don’t need a brake because I have a 3-blade folding prop. I’d rather not part with the old brake however. I’m very happy with my propeller and have no plans to replace it. You never know, at some point in the future I might replace it with a feathering or fixed unit. Some feathering props freewheel; others don’t.
—
Rich Carter

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[Anonymous]

Thanks Rich,
I’m off to the Auto parts store a look see. today. I’ll report back.
Bill

wrote:

Quote:

I installed a 12V pump when I had my old W60. It can be seen to the left of the transmission in the attached photo. It is after the Racor and before the lift pump. It runs off the key switch. If the electric pump fails, it will not interfere with operation of the manual pump. I purchased it at the local auto parts store for about $30. I can’t quite read the part number from the photo. As I remember, there are two generic pumps like this. One pumps more fuel than the other. I don’t remember which I purchased. The pump is in my spare parts bin. If I think of it, I’ll send out the part number.

—
Rich Carter

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