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So the splash did not happen bc fuel, clean and rosy red, goes into my
secondary filter but not out. It’s sporting a Fram 3166. Clean. What
the hell?-Adam Silverstein-iPhone
(“trust everyone but cut the cards”)
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So, my splash didn't happen because water was dripping out the bottom of the keel – not a good sign. A little grinder work and I find that this same problem has happened at least twice before in this boat's life.
Lots of grinding and three 1/2″ holes into the bilge later I find that construction of that portion of the keel (and maybe more) is chintzy at best, dangerous at worst. I can only suppose that these boats were molded in halves and taped together at the seam. This would explain the 1/4″ of fiberglass down the seam and the crapload of filler at the keel's bottom.
Feh – now repairing so that it's the last time this happens.
Safety tip – DO NOT BLOCK THE AFT HALF OF THE KEEL. If any significant weight is placed on it, even just aft of the ballast, you could break it. I know, because that's what made the problem so bad on this haul out.
As for you, Adam, fuel coming to the filter but not out means that the filter is plugged somehow – it may be a manufacturing defect. If you remove the filter and turn on the ignition, will fuel pour out? That is if you have an electric fuel pump? If you don't you may have a weak lift pump, if there is one. Or, on the last change, a rag, sponge, cork, scalpel or forcept may have been left in there?
Those are the things I'd check first – bad filter, something plugging, then pump.
Bob
On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 3:18 PM, adam silverstein < ([email][/email])> wrote:
So the splash did not happen bc fuel, clean and rosy red, goes into my secondary filter but not out. It's sporting a Fram 3166. Clean. What the hell?
-Adam Silverstein-iPhone
(“trust everyone but cut the cards”)
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For additional commands, e-mail: ()—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Remove the filter and check to be sure that the large seal is properly
installed in the top of the filter housing. I spent a day (including
replacing the low pressure pump) only to discover that the seal was laying
on top of the replaceable element and the fuel was being bypassed back to
the tank
Phil Fontaine
Aurora.
Original Message
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Yar. I had a similar problem with that deep bilge. In Ft. Pierce we fixed a repair there done for PO in Mexico. And always make sure the blocking is first 1/3 of keel only.
Replaced filter element as well: will ascertain later if something is blocking the outflow port. And thanks to mr. Carter for the electric in line pump idea. That lift pump blows.
-Adam Silverstein-iPhone (“trust everyone but cut the cards”)
On May 15, 2009, at 7:31 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
So, my splash didn’t happen because water was dripping out the bottom of the keel – not a good sign. A little grinder work and I find that this same problem has happened at least twice before in this boat’s life.
Lots of grinding and three 1/2″ holes into the bilge later I find that construction of that portion of the keel (and maybe more) is chintzy at best, dangerous at worst. I can only suppose that these boats were molded in halves and taped together at the seam. This would explain the 1/4″ of fiberglass down the seam and the crapload of filler at the keel’s bottom.
Feh – now repairing so that it’s the last time this happens.
Safety tip – DO NOT BLOCK THE AFT HALF OF THE KEEL. If any significant weight is placed on it, even just aft of the ballast, you could break it. I know, because that’s what made the problem so bad on this haul out.
As for you, Adam, fuel coming to the filter but not out means that the filter is plugged somehow – it may be a manufacturing defect. If you remove the filter and turn on the ignition, will fuel pour out? That is if you have an electric fuel pump? If you don’t you may have a weak lift pump, if there is one. Or, on the last change, a rag, sponge, cork, scalpel or forcept may have been left in there?
Those are the things I’d check first – bad filter, something plugging, then pump.
Bob
On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 3:18 PM, adam silverstein <()> wrote:
So the splash did not happen bc fuel, clean and rosy red, goes into my secondary filter but not out. It’s sporting a Fram 3166. Clean. What the hell?
-Adam Silverstein-iPhone
(“trust everyone but cut the cards”)
To unsubscribe, e-mail: ()
For additional commands, e-mail: ()—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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There is a common problem with boats with deep sumps such as the 424. If water fills the sump area during winter layup, it will expand when freezing and crack the back of the keel. Water can get in any number of ways including a hose failure or just rainwater through the locker lids and engine dorade vents. Hose failure can occur if water accumulates inside the hose until it gets clogged with ice. Once the bottom of the hose gets blocked, the upper section will fill with water. This may split the hose open when it freezes. I throw some rock-salt in the deck drains every now and then if it looks like ice is building up in there. I’ve had three-foot long icicles hanging from my through-hulls. The worst offender is the copper drain pipe in the propane locker. This can get blocked very easilly and will split open if water freezes in there.
There isn’t much you can do to keep all water out of your bilge during wither layup. I toss a couple of gallons of anti-freeze down there to keep the ice from freezing solid. If I’m careful about maintaining the boat during storage, I only get a couple of gallons of water down there during the winter.
Regards
RichQuote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Hi Rich,
I'm well aware of the power of ice – but as Iived on the boat all winter and the bilge never went below 40 degrees (because the water didn't), I know that that wasn't the problem. The problem was caused by point loading the hollow part and essentially crushing it. My bad, as I had the marina put the block there – that said, on my Ranger 30, the false keel part of the boat behind the ballast was so thick and solid that you could block it there and drop the lead for rebedding.
Lesson learned. On my way now!
Regard,
Bob
On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:27 AM, Rich Carter < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:There is a common problem with boats with deep sumps such as the 424. If water fills the sump area during winter layup, it will expand when freezing and crack the back of the keel. Water can get in any number of ways including a hose failure or just rainwater through the locker lids and engine dorade vents. Hose failure can occur if water accumulates inside the hose until it gets clogged with ice. Once the bottom of the hose gets blocked, the upper section will fill with water. This may split the hose open when it freezes. I throw some rock-salt in the deck drains every now and then if it looks like ice is building up in there. I've had three-foot long icicles hanging from my through-hulls. The worst offender is the copper drain pipe in the propane locker. This can get blocked very easilly and will split open if water freezes in there.
There isn't much you can do to keep all water out of your bilge during wither layup. I toss a couple of gallons of anti-freeze down there to keep the ice from freezing solid. If I'm careful about maintaining the boat during storage, I only get a couple of gallons of water down there during the winter.
Regards
RichQuote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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You may be wet and moving, but I have a working engine. Yay. See you out around ci next week bob.
-Adam Silverstein-iPhone (“trust everyone but cut the cards”)
On May 17, 2009, at 3:34 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Hi Rich,I’m well aware of the power of ice – but as Iived on the boat all winter and the bilge never went below 40 degrees (because the water didn’t), I know that that wasn’t the problem. The problem was caused by point loading the hollow part and essentially crushing it. My bad, as I had the marina put the block there – that said, on my Ranger 30, the false keel part of the boat behind the ballast was so thick and solid that you could block it there and drop the lead for rebedding.
Lesson learned. On my way now!
Regard,
Bob
On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:27 AM, Rich Carter <()> wrote:
Quote:There is a common problem with boats with deep sumps such as the 424. If water fills the sump area during winter layup, it will expand when freezing and crack the back of the keel. Water can get in any number of ways including a hose failure or just rainwater through the locker lids and engine dorade vents. Hose failure can occur if water accumulates inside the hose until it gets clogged with ice. Once the bottom of the hose gets blocked, the upper section will fill with water. This may split the hose open when it freezes. I throw some rock-salt in the deck drains every now and then if it looks like ice is building up in there. I’ve had three-foot long icicles hanging from my through-hulls. The worst offender is the copper drain pipe in the propane locker. This can get blocked very easilly and will split open if water freezes in there.There isn’t much you can do to keep all water out of your bilge during wither layup. I toss a couple of gallons of anti-freeze down there to keep the ice from freezing solid. If I’m careful about maintaining the boat during storage, I only get a couple of gallons of water down there during the winter.
Regards
RichQuote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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have a look at these.http://www.pearsoninfo.net/info/factory/factory.htm
-adamOn May 17, 2009, at 3:34 PM, Robert Fine wrote:
Quote:Hi Rich,I’m well aware of the power of ice – but as Iived on the boat all winter and the bilge never went below 40 degrees (because the water didn’t), I know that that wasn’t the problem. The problem was caused by point loading the hollow part and essentially crushing it. My bad, as I had the marina put the block there – that said, on my Ranger 30, the false keel part of the boat behind the ballast was so thick and solid that you could block it there and drop the lead for rebedding.
Lesson learned. On my way now!
Regard,
Bob
On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:27 AM, Rich Carter < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:There is a common problem with boats with deep sumps such as the 424. If water fills the sump area during winter layup, it will expand when freezing and crack the back of the keel. Water can get in any number of ways including a hose failure or just rainwater through the locker lids and engine dorade vents. Hose failure can occur if water accumulates inside the hose until it gets clogged with ice. Once the bottom of the hose gets blocked, the upper section will fill with water. This may split the hose open when it freezes. I throw some rock-salt in the deck drains every now and then if it looks like ice is building up in there. I’ve had three-foot long icicles hanging from my through-hulls. The worst offender is the copper drain pipe in the propane locker. This can get blocked very easilly and will split open if water freezes in there.
There isn’t much you can do to keep all water out of your bilge during wither layup. I toss a couple of gallons of anti-freeze down there to keep the ice from freezing solid. If I’m careful about maintaining the boat during storage, I only get a couple of gallons of water down there during the winter.
Regards
RichQuote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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I have thought -dreamed- about acquiring one of the 424 molds and making a new, one off 424. I know there are all sorts of legal things involved that would impede a project like this, but I think it would be a great challenge. I’d beef it up in the known weak areas, the V berth and transom for example, and try to build it to meet off shore standards.
One of the things I’d change is the lead ballast. I have a source for U238 – that is spent uranium. It is three times more dense than lead and 7600 pounds of U238 will require 1/3 the space of the lead. The righting moment would be much greater than what our 424 enjoy now which might result in less total weight. This would also open up a huge area where the lead is currently located.
As an academic exercise, I’m interested in reading what others might change as well, given the fact that we have to use the existing 424 molds.
Lee
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Lee-
Re Depleted uranium (DU) and other design issues.
DU is pretty toxic stuff, but perhaps the reduced volume would allow you to narrow the keel somewhat, or install a wine celler.
A couple other things I’d change would be a better hull to deck joint, and eliminate the v-drive in favor of hybrid diesel electric or other drive arrangement.
Probably be cheaper to strip out and reenforce an existing hull than to redo that old mold.
Quent -
Saayyy – if you could get enough DU, you could have a fast breeder reactor in the bilge. How about that?
On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:34 PM, Lee Yonkers < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:I have thought -dreamed- about acquiring one of the 424 molds and making a new, one off 424. I know there are all sorts of legal things involved that would impede a project like this, but I think it would be a great challenge. I'd beef it up in the known weak areas, the V berth and transom for example, and try to build it to meet off shore standards.One of the things I'd change is the lead ballast. I have a source for U238 – that is spent uranium. It is three times more dense than lead and 7600 pounds of U238 will require 1/3 the space of the lead. The righting moment would be much greater than what our 424 enjoy now which might result in less total weight. This would also open up a huge area where the lead is currently located.
As an academic exercise, I'm interested in reading what others might change as well, given the fact that we have to use the existing 424 molds.
Lee
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