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Hi, I’m about to be a new Pearson 424 owner this fall and am interested in knowing what the general populous of 424 owners are carrying on their bow as a primary. I’m seeing a lot of the 45# range with 5/16 HT chain. How many of you out there are carrying more beef on the bow and possible up to 3/8 chain. In my past I was strictly living off the hook with a bit smaller boats and my gut says 45# just won’t be as comfortable a pillow for sleeping with a 22,000+ lb hull swinging during a nasty night. I’m thinking I can live with the 5/16 ht chain as long as quality shackles are used but one up on the anchor seems like a good idea. I guess I’m hoping to keep the initial costs down without replacing all the chain and gypsy. Anyone out there with a bigger anchor and still on 5/16’s? ❓
Ken
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Hi Ken,
Welcome to the zoo. Opinions about ground tackle are legion. Luckily for
you, mine is the correct one so I will share it. (:))I may own the only P424 with a proper chain locker, and that’s because I
built it. Big job, well worth it, at least to me. Even so, even though I
have the largest, deepest possible divided chain locker for a 424, I have a
problem with my primary chain pyramiding in the locker to the point that it
will clog the windlass gypsy if I don’t tend to it. (How I do that is
another story, but it works.) 150′ of 3/8″ chain on top of 100′ of 5/8″
line pile up in there. Also, my boat’s a bit bow-heavy. All this is to say
that if I were doing it again, I’d use 5/16″ HT chain.As for anchors (oh, boy, here we go), I’m using a 45-lb CQR and a 66-lb
Manta (on 50′ 3/8″ chain and, I think, 200′ of 5/8″ line). The Manta is or
was West Marine’s “Bruce” knockoff. I live at anchor all the time and sleep
well most nights.Bottom line? No way is a 424 going to break 5/16″ HT chain – unless you lift
her out of the water by the rode.Have fun,
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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The most common anchor I’ve seen on the 424s are the 45# CQR. I have one
of those I never use and a 35Kg Bruce which has been splendid. I carry 250
ft. of chain fore and aft and the spare anchor is a 25 lb. Fortress. I’ve
held 6 424s in a 15kt breeze with the fortress and the 40′ chain/250 nylon
rode.There are as many opinions about anchors as there are boats to be
anchored. My advice to you is to pick an anchor that works well for you
and you’ve grown accustomed to in former boats and use one of those sized
appropriately. There should be at least one boat length worth of chain if
you’re using a mixed rode and two is not a bad idea. If you really like
being sure, use mostly chain. Make sure you’ve made provisions for
snubbing lines if you do use all chain.The key to anchoring is to learn how to anchor. How to know when it’s set
(and not merely hooked on vegetation), and how to raise it without breaking
your back (if you don’t have a windlass).5/16ths chain is perfectly fine. Two types of anchors at least that cover
all the anchoring grounds you’re likely to encounter. There is an anchor
like a Delta with a roll bar on top which are favored because they roll to
a plow down position, but with my Bruce the only difficulty I’ve ever had
was anchoring in a swift creek – I couldn’t get it down fast enough and had
to keep raising it to try to move it farther from the bank. But realize
it’s 75lbs, and there’s nothing but chain.So, key points: Use what you know. Get one size bigger than recommended.
5/16″ chain is good enough but if your gypsy takes 3/8, use that. Learn
how to anchor your boat and your anchor. Wait a few minutes before
starting cocktail hour to make sure you’re not dragging.You should be good to go, and if not, you’ll have a great story as well as
providing amusement for the others at the anchorage..Bob
On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:Hi Ken,Welcome to the zoo. Opinions about ground tackle are legion. Luckily for
you, mine is the correct one so I will share it. (:))I may own the only P424 with a proper chain locker, and that’s because I
built it. Big job, well worth it, at least to me. Even so, even though I
have the largest, deepest possible divided chain locker for a 424, I have a
problem with my primary chain pyramiding in the locker to the point that it
will clog the windlass gypsy if I don’t tend to it. (How I do that is
another story, but it works.) 150′ of 3/8″ chain on top of 100′ of 5/8″
line pile up in there. Also, my boat’s a bit bow-heavy. All this is to say
that if I were doing it again, I’d use 5/16″ HT chain.As for anchors (oh, boy, here we go), I’m using a 45-lb CQR and a 66-lb
Manta (on 50′ 3/8″ chain and, I think, 200′ of 5/8″ line). The Manta is or
was West Marine’s “Bruce” knockoff. I live at anchor all the time and sleep
well most nights.Bottom line? No way is a 424 going to break 5/16″ HT chain – unless you
lift
her out of the water by the rode.Have fun,
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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60 lbs Manson supreme with 275 ft of 5/16 HT chain.
Dual snubbers.
45 lbs Bruce on 100 ft 3/8 chain w/ 200ft 3/4 nylon.
Slept well throughout eastern Caribbean. And Bahamas.
AlanSent from my iPhone
On Jun 30, 2013, at 4:00 PM, Robert Fine wrote:
Quote:The most common anchor I’ve seen on the 424s are the 45# CQR. I have one
of those I never use and a 35Kg Bruce which has been splendid. I carry 250
ft. of chain fore and aft and the spare anchor is a 25 lb. Fortress. I’ve
held 6 424s in a 15kt breeze with the fortress and the 40′ chain/250 nylon
rode.There are as many opinions about anchors as there are boats to be
anchored. My advice to you is to pick an anchor that works well for you
and you’ve grown accustomed to in former boats and use one of those sized
appropriately. There should be at least one boat length worth of chain if
you’re using a mixed rode and two is not a bad idea. If you really like
being sure, use mostly chain. Make sure you’ve made provisions for
snubbing lines if you do use all chain.The key to anchoring is to learn how to anchor. How to know when it’s set
(and not merely hooked on vegetation), and how to raise it without breaking
your back (if you don’t have a windlass).5/16ths chain is perfectly fine. Two types of anchors at least that cover
all the anchoring grounds you’re likely to encounter. There is an anchor
like a Delta with a roll bar on top which are favored because they roll to
a plow down position, but with my Bruce the only difficulty I’ve ever had
was anchoring in a swift creek – I couldn’t get it down fast enough and had
to keep raising it to try to move it farther from the bank. But realize
it’s 75lbs, and there’s nothing but chain.So, key points: Use what you know. Get one size bigger than recommended.
5/16″ chain is good enough but if your gypsy takes 3/8, use that. Learn
how to anchor your boat and your anchor. Wait a few minutes before
starting cocktail hour to make sure you’re not dragging.You should be good to go, and if not, you’ll have a great story as well as
providing amusement for the others at the anchorage..Bob
On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:Hi Ken,Welcome to the zoo. Opinions about ground tackle are legion. Luckily for
you, mine is the correct one so I will share it. (:))I may own the only P424 with a proper chain locker, and that’s because I
built it. Big job, well worth it, at least to me. Even so, even though I
have the largest, deepest possible divided chain locker for a 424, I have a
problem with my primary chain pyramiding in the locker to the point that it
will clog the windlass gypsy if I don’t tend to it. (How I do that is
another story, but it works.) 150′ of 3/8″ chain on top of 100′ of 5/8″
line pile up in there. Also, my boat’s a bit bow-heavy. All this is to say
that if I were doing it again, I’d use 5/16″ HT chain.As for anchors (oh, boy, here we go), I’m using a 45-lb CQR and a 66-lb
Manta (on 50′ 3/8″ chain and, I think, 200′ of 5/8″ line). The Manta is or
was West Marine’s “Bruce” knockoff. I live at anchor all the time and sleep
well most nights.Bottom line? No way is a 424 going to break 5/16″ HT chain – unless you
lift
her out of the water by the rode.Have fun,
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Hi Tor, your reply hit home. I did a quick peepaboo of Silverheels and your resume and when I saw you answered me (just as I knew you would) I had already figured out you were the guy to talk to because you emptied that forward water tank! So, the 3/8″ is heavy! I had already thought that what the hell does a boat with a water-maker need 150 gal capacity for and in my mind, and my wife’s too, we had that fwd tank empty of water.
I’ve lived fine at anchor with an oversize CQR for many a year down island (almost long ago) and always slept well and rarely had problems getting set as so many seem to complain of the CQR. I guess I was lucky or just talented at anchoring (j/k). I do plan to go modern with a Rocna or a Spade ($$). The boat I’m buying has a 45# CQR and 33# Bruce secondary. The Bruce seems to me to be a good secondary for on the bow but I was figuring if I could carry a big boy up there permanent all by itself as a silk pillow and stow the Bruce as needed, of course keeping chain and rode ready in the locker.
Is the Manta/Bruce your primary?….and what do you got coming out of that fancy PVC butt end anchor locker?
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Hello unabated, a 60# er on the 5/16 seems a good call weight wise. The CQR has always been my primary and I’ve been comfy with it but thought with this size boat a 45# would be a little light. I’ll be starting out with 230′ 5/16 and 5/8 rode after that. Sounds like I’m going to be alright starting out with what I got. Thanks Bob!
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The weight up front is offset by the generator in the back.
Opinions are like anchors, everyone has a different one!
AlanSent from my iPhone
On Jun 30, 2013, at 4:35 PM, “Page Two” wrote:
Hello unabated, a 60# er on the 5/16 seems a good call weight wise. The CQR has always been my primary and I’ve been comfy with it but thought with this size boat a 45# would be a little light. I’ll be starting out with 230′ 5/16 and 5/8 rode after that. Sounds like I’m going to be alright starting out with what I got. Thanks Bob!
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Hey Madsailor, thanks for the reply, That’s a big Bruce you got there. Is that on 5/16’s or 3/8’s?
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On the subject of a snubber, run from deck level it’s just a shock absorber.
Much more effective to first lead it through an eye bolt in the stem just
above the waterline. On our boats that lowers the effective anchoring depth
by 6′, and so reduces the required scope. If you do use a stem eye setup, I
think it’s safer to run the snubber from a bow cleat through the eye and
then to the anchor chain, rather than just shackling the fixed end to the
eye bolt as I’ve seen done (and used to do myself). If you ever have to slip
anchor in an emergency you may well need to release the snubber at the boat
end – it may not be possible or you may not have time to retrieve and
disconnect the anchor chain end.Just a thought from a sound sleeper.
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Hi Ken,
Madsailor and Bob are the same person. Anyway, I have 5/16″ chain. I’ve
never felt insecure. Well, not about the anchor anyway.That said, you clearly are experienced and know how to set ground tackle.
Stay with what you know and a 60 or 70 lb anchor should be fine as a
primary, 45 for secondary. I never had a Bruce before this boat sticking
with Danforths as the bottoms here around Long Island Sound are mud or sand
which they hold quite well in, The Bruce does better in gravel, or so I’ve
experienced, and a lot of chain seems to help. I suspect any anchor would
work with 50′ of chain on the bottom with it.As Tor said, welcome to the zoo!
Bob
On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 4:39 PM, Page Two wrote:
Hey Madsailor, thanks for the reply, That’s a big Bruce you got there. Is
that on 5/16’s or 3/8’s?_______________________________________________
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—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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Thanks everyone, I have set an anchor a few times but this forum stuff is still a tad confusing as to answering and building a discussion with someone. I’ve read them, but have never joined in as now. I hope to sort it out, give me a minute! Thanks again, my first question was well answered !!!!
Damn, I can’t wait to get back on a boat, I’ve been cutting lawn for to many years!!!!! -
OK, disclaimer first. Half the guys on this forum know a lot more about boat
equipment than I do, and that’s not false modesty. But I believe I did get
the chain locker right. However, I have not done anything with or to the
forward water tank. (I keep threatening to cut it open for storage, but
never seem to get around to it.) That tank is not part of my chain locker.
Nor do I ever put water in it because, as you suggested, it’s not necessary
with 100-gallons in the salon tanks plus a watermaker. Also I can’t afford
the weight up there – Silverheels is already a tad bow heavy. If I could
afford the weight, I’d probably convert that tank to fuel.I’ve been using my CQR as the primary. For decades I’ve had great luck
getting CQR’s to set and hold. For some reason, though, lately I can’t get
this damned thing to dig in anywhere. I anchor the way I always have, which
is pretty close to correctly, and it doesn’t set. I’ve taken to diving on in
and hand-setting it every time I’ve anchored this past week just so I could
sleep at night. So, I just might switch over to my big Manta as the primary
anchor. That sucker has never failed to set on the first try.That weird-looking PVC fitting on Silverheels’ aft combing is a deck pipe I
sort of invented (thank you, Home Depot) for my stern anchor, which is a
22-lb HT Danforth. I’ve deployed my stern anchor just once in the past 5
years of cruising, and didn’t really need to then. However, if you go to the
Med (or some marinas in the French islands down here) you may use a stern
anchor for Mediterranean mooring if you dock bow-to, which I much prefer,
rather than stern-to the quays. You might want to mount that Bruce you’re
not going to use on the bow back there.Tor
Captain Tor Pinney
http://www.silverheels.us
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Maybe you need to sharpen the blades on the plow!
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 30, 2013, at 5:11 PM, “Silverheels” wrote:
Quote:OK, disclaimer first. Half the guys on this forum know a lot more about boat
equipment than I do, and that’s not false modesty. But I believe I did get
the chain locker right. However, I have not done anything with or to the
forward water tank. (I keep threatening to cut it open for storage, but
never seem to get around to it.) That tank is not part of my chain locker.
Nor do I ever put water in it because, as you suggested, it’s not necessary
with 100-gallons in the salon tanks plus a watermaker. Also I can’t afford
the weight up there – Silverheels is already a tad bow heavy. If I could
afford the weight, I’d probably convert that tank to fuel.I’ve been using my CQR as the primary. For decades I’ve had great luck
getting CQR’s to set and hold. For some reason, though, lately I can’t get
this damned thing to dig in anywhere. I anchor the way I always have, which
is pretty close to correctly, and it doesn’t set. I’ve taken to diving on in
and hand-setting it every time I’ve anchored this past week just so I could
sleep at night. So, I just might switch over to my big Manta as the primary
anchor. That sucker has never failed to set on the first try.That weird-looking PVC fitting on Silverheels’ aft combing is a deck pipe I
sort of invented (thank you, Home Depot) for my stern anchor, which is a
22-lb HT Danforth. I’ve deployed my stern anchor just once in the past 5
years of cruising, and didn’t really need to then. However, if you go to the
Med (or some marinas in the French islands down here) you may use a stern
anchor for Mediterranean mooring if you dock bow-to, which I much prefer,
rather than stern-to the quays. You might want to mount that Bruce you’re
not going to use on the bow back there.Tor
Captain Tor Pinney
http://www.silverheels.us
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Page Two,
Like Alan, I carry a 60# Manson on 300′ of 5/16 G40 and 200″ of 5/8″ rope.
Previously i had a 45# Bruce on the same rode. I did drag that anchor
twice, first in Willoughby
Bayand then
nearFernandina Beach.
In both cases I was anchored in less than ideal holding ground with a gale
blowing. Still I decided to put some more weight down there so went to
the Manson. Haven’t dragged the Manson, but then I haven’t really tested
in similar conditions.
My backup is a 18# Fortress on 20′ of 3/8″ chain and 300′ of 5/8″ rope.
That anchor and rode is stored in the Port cockpit locker. There’s more
than enough weight in the bow even with a generator in the cockpit
lazarette as a counter weight.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comOn Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 4:39 PM, Page Two wrote:
Hey Madsailor, thanks for the reply, That’s a big Bruce you got there. Is
that on 5/16’s or 3/8’s?_______________________________________________
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I always thought a lot of weight at the ends of a boat causes her to
hobby-horse in a seaway. I don’t have a built-in generator and I’ve gone out
of my way to minimize the weight distribution in Silverheels’ ends. Still,
on this most recent voyage she has been hobby-horsing more than I’m used to
and I don’t know why.You guys with tons of ground tackle forward and generators mounted aft, do
your boats exhibit that tendency to rock fore & aft in head seas?Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Tor,
When I termed my generator as a counter weight I was being facetious –
shoulda put a smiley face on it.
It does balance the weight a bit when at anchor or dockside, but it only
magnifies the stern squat when underway. I haven’t experienced major
hobby-horsing, but when the NL generator gives up the ghost it will likely
be replaced by Honda at about 1/3 the weight.
When I replaced my 45# Bruce with the 60# Manson I also got rid of my 44#
Chinese CQR and reduced the weight on the bow by 16#. Then I replaced the
Lofrans manual windlass with a Quick Electric and am about back to where I
started.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comOn Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 5:25 PM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:I always thought a lot of weight at the ends of a boat causes her to
hobby-horse in a seaway. I don’t have a built-in generator and I’ve gone
out
of my way to minimize the weight distribution in Silverheels’ ends. Still,
on this most recent voyage she has been hobby-horsing more than I’m used to
and I don’t know why.You guys with tons of ground tackle forward and generators mounted aft, do
your boats exhibit that tendency to rock fore & aft in head seas?Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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I am real curious about this question Tor. I saw that you recently made a trip to weather and I too will try to keep the weight off the ends.
I’ve done a delivery from Newport to Antigua on a 424 years ago and I remember she was a bit of a dog going to weather, a bad sheeting angle was out bitch if I remember.@Silverheels wrote:
I always thought a lot of weight at the ends of a boat causes her to
hobby-horse in a seaway. I don’t have a built-in generator and I’ve gone out
of my way to minimize the weight distribution in Silverheels’ ends. Still,
on this most recent voyage she has been hobby-horsing more than I’m used to
and I don’t know why.You guys with tons of ground tackle forward and generators mounted aft, do
your boats exhibit that tendency to rock fore & aft in head seas?Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Ken,
Yes, you need to organize this email list in your email client. I use
Gmail, which does a good job of keeping each email thread in a single slot
in my inbox. I haven’t used Outlook for years, but I think some simple
filter scripts can keep things organized. Those are the only two email
clients I’ve ever used.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comOn Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 6:00 PM, John Stevenson wrote:
Quote:Tor,
When I termed my generator as a counter weight I was being facetious –
shoulda put a smiley face on it.
It does balance the weight a bit when at anchor or dockside, but it only
magnifies the stern squat when underway. I haven’t experienced major
hobby-horsing, but when the NL generator gives up the ghost it will likely
be replaced by Honda at about 1/3 the weight.
When I replaced my 45# Bruce with the 60# Manson I also got rid of my 44#
Chinese CQR and reduced the weight on the bow by 16#. Then I replaced the
Lofrans manual windlass with a Quick Electric and am about back to where I
started.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comOn Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 5:25 PM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:I always thought a lot of weight at the ends of a boat causes her to
hobby-horse in a seaway. I don’t have a built-in generator and I’ve gone
out
of my way to minimize the weight distribution in Silverheels’ ends. Still,
on this most recent voyage she has been hobby-horsing more than I’m used
to
and I don’t know why.You guys with tons of ground tackle forward and generators mounted aft, do
your boats exhibit that tendency to rock fore & aft in head seas?Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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I didn’t think anyone actually ever read that logblog. Have no idea why I
write it.Yes, too much of the past 2,000 n miles was to windward or nearly so, and
no, these grand old ketches don’t point like a J24. I’ve gleefully noted
some improvement in a number of sailing characteristics, though, including
pointing, with my beautiful new set of sails. Still, beating into 15-20
knots in open ocean I’m glad to point 55° off the true wind, plus 5° leeway.
I can pinch higher, but the price in speed is too much. (I hear there are
modern gizmos that will actually tell you your VMG. How cool is that!) Being
more of a traditionalist, when I absolutely have to point higher and go
faster, I motorsail. That’s why God created Yanmar’s. I knew and accepted
this when I bought Silverheels, and it’s part of why I immediately treated
her to a brand new engine. Everything on a boat is a compromise. Windward
performance; everything. These are great boats overall. And ease off the
sheets a bit in a blow and, man, watch out. 9.7! (albeit SOG)
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Darn, I left my plow sharpener back in Green Cove Springs. A buddy of mine
needed it for the harvest.Quote:
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We have a 60# Manson and about 230 feet of 5/16 chain. Also carried a 55# Delta with 30 feet 5/16 and 200 feet of 5/8 nylon. The Delta was too much weight and over kill. Now in the garage, for sale. The Manson don’t drag.
Don’t hobby horse too much but the rib and 15hp outboard is causing us to raise the waterline out back…
Quent -
No surprise there, Quent. I’ve raised Silverheels’ waterline 2 or 3 times. I
believe that’s normal for most sailboats as they outfit for cruising.
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Just “redid” the anchoring setup on my 424 ketch. I cut out the floor of the existing anchor locker and sealed the deck, similar to Tor. I installed a Maxwell windless that will haul my big Manson 60 on 300′ of 3/8 as my primary. My secondary is a 45 CQR on 100 feet of chain with 200 feet of 12 strand. I keep the CQR on the bow and stow the chain/rope rode in the aft lazaretto in case of a tsunami or other big event. The water gets deep here quickly!
Dan Kalinowski
Jolly Lama #135
Keehi Lagoon, O’ahu -
I wonder how many of you have vertical windlasses, as I do. They’re really
only set up to handle one anchor. However, most of us have 2 bow anchors and
some of us use them both from time to time. I’ve come up with a wonderful
addition to the system that makes deployment of the #2 anchor as automatic
as the #1, and the retrieval nearly so. (It still requires manual tailing,
but it’s a lot easier and safer.) See if the attached photo is
self-explanatory.And can you guess what the little cap fitting is just aft and slightly to
port of the windlass?And even harder, you’ll never guess the purpose of the bit of line on the
port bow cleat? (Hint: it’s actually a small loop of strong line secured to
the cleat.)I’m sailing from Bequia down to Union Island this morning. (Rough life.)
Online again later today.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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My guess for the cap is a wash down hose fitting and the line on the cleat, no clue, but must have something to do with the vertical roller on the rail. But please do tell.
@Silverheels wrote:
I wonder how many of you have vertical windlasses, as I do. They’re really
only set up to handle one anchor. However, most of us have 2 bow anchors and
some of us use them both from time to time. I’ve come up with a wonderful
addition to the system that makes deployment of the #2 anchor as automatic
as the #1, and the retrieval nearly so. (It still requires manual tailing,
but it’s a lot easier and safer.) See if the attached photo is
self-explanatory.And can you guess what the little cap fitting is just aft and slightly to
port of the windlass?And even harder, you’ll never guess the purpose of the bit of line on the
port bow cleat? (Hint: it’s actually a small loop of strong line secured to
the cleat.)I’m sailing from Bequia down to Union Island this morning. (Rough life.)
Online again later today.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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OK, regarding those odd bits & pieces on Silverheels’ foredeck:
The side rail roller leads the #2 anchor chain/rode smoothly and
effortlessly from the starboard anchor locker deck pipe to the windlass
chain gypsy at just the right angle so that the windlass feeds out that rode
as smoothly as it does the #1. Anyone who has wrestled their #2 rode to and
through a vertical windlass gypsy can appreciate this little miracle. Only
took me 5 years to think of it.The cap opens to the chain locker and allows me to ram a special rod I
concocted in there to jostle, shove and otherwise knock down the chain
pyramid that inevitably builds up when raising the #1 anchor’s all-chain
rode. (Left un-jostled that pyramid can and has suddenly jammed the windlass
like a rock at the worst possible moment.)The loop of line on the bow cleat was an unfair question. No one could have
guessed its purpose, which is enable me to attach a snatch block through
which I lead an extension of the staysail halyard when I’m lifting the
dinghy overnight to keep it from being stolen. This is SOP and absolutely
mandatory in Latino countries, where dinghy theft is a national pastime, and
in certain other harbors around the Caribbean [and, no doubt, around the
world]. See http://www.tor.cc/articles/liftit.htm). By leading the halyard to the
foredeck at that precise angle I can employ the electric windlass’ drum to
lift the dinghy-con-outboard alongside Silverheels using only my big toe.
Beats hell out of cranking it up with a halyard winch, which is what I’ve
seen virtually everyone else do.And now, as Paul Harvey used to say, you know the rest of the story.
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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I like that! The pokey hole sounds a bit like a pain in the ass but you did earlier hint at the problem with all the chain piling up and tumbling which of course can create big sucks at inappropriate times. I often wondered if you had a chain locker run deep into the fore hull and designed it as a cylinder running deep and at an angle could you fit enough chain in it and completely eliminate the possibility of the chain tumbling as it piled up?
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Ken,
I don’t know if you could angle a tube so that the chain automatically
gravity-feeds aft, down and away from the chain locker area beneath the
windlass – assuming you’ve created a reasonable chain locker area beneath
your windlass, which Pearson did not. Maybe someone in this group has
accomplished this feed, but most of the “solutions” I’ve read about here
involve a crewmember stationed belowdecks to hand-feed the chain aft. That
doesn’t work so well for a single-hander. As for anchor chain “tumbling” on
its own, mine rarely does. More often than not, it pyramids.What I’ve devised works. It may look a little odd to the casual observer –
me on the foredeck pumping and grinding a rod into the deck while stepping
on the anchor windlass foot switch – but I’m quite accustomed to appearing
odd to casual (and even formal) observers. What matters to me is that the
anchor comes up without a hitch. I’m happy to report that mine now does.But isn’t anyone curious about my one-of-a-kind, custom-made anti-pyramid
rod? After snapping half a dozen wood dowels and broom sticks in my ongoing
quest to de-pyramid my anchor chain, I finally designed a metal rod
specifically for the purpose. When a machine shop in Martinique wanted $100
to fabricate it for me, I made one from scrap for free. Very cool, and
sublimely gratifying to an old waterfront scrounger like me.
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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gratifying to an old waterfront scrounger like me
I feel a kindred relationship already, I’ve just been in retirement for awhile!
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Yeah, it’s called earning a living. Been there, done that. A necessary evil,
I suppose, but hopefully with residual benefits, including this: Having (and
leaving) a job or career makes returning to the Real World that much more
fun. Without contrast there is no OUTSTANDING.(Philosophy in the morning? What have I come to?)
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You have gone all Island, mon.
On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 7:37 AM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:Yeah, it’s called earning a living. Been there, done that. A necessary
evil,
I suppose, but hopefully with residual benefits, including this: Having
(and
leaving) a job or career makes returning to the Real World that much more
fun. Without contrast there is no OUTSTANDING.(Philosophy in the morning? What have I come to?)
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After our discussion about 5/16″ vs. 3/8″ chain, I was diving on my anchor
yesterday and observing the effect of my boat’s pulling force underwater.
Not surprisingly, virtually none of that pull made it to the anchor because
it was used up lifting some of the 100′ of 3/8″ chain I have down. It
occurred to me that the same force would lift a greater length of lighter
5/16″ chain, and so it might require more scope to keep the pull from
reaching the anchor directly. Just something to keep in mind. It isn’t only
about breaking strength and bow weight. The bottom line is how well the
ground tackle assembly holds the boat.Of course, when more scope isn’t an option an anchor rode weight will
effectively reproduce the dampening benefit of heavier chain in the water.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Hi Tor
I think you touch on an interesting point. Given that you can carry just so much weight in the bow, should it be in the anchor, or in the chain?
My own view, given the almost ideal anchoring conditions at Chesapeake Bay, is use as big anchor as possible and lighter chain. In these soft bottoms, fluke area is critical to holding. OTOH, light chain more quickly loses elastic effect caused by gravity. Nylon snubbers help, but there still could be considerable stress all the way to the anchor in difficut conditions. Still I’d rather have the heavy part stuck in the bottom.
What’s your take on this given your years of experience?
Quent -
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Now that we’re talking about chain weight and how it helps keep the load off an anchor, I’m going to ASSume that the difference in weight between say 100′ of 5/16 and 100′ of 3/8 chain is more than a “one up” size anchor weight. So 200′ or 300′ of 3/8 chain along with an even “one up” size anchor is really putting some weight up forward. I guess the 3/8 helps when it’s not blowing stink but when it is and the chain is humming tight, it’s the scope and anchor that’ll keep you put. I’m going to stay with the 5’16 chain and play around with the 45# CQR for a spell locally (SE States) only because most all my experience has been CQR. I’m sure I’ll go to something like a Rocna 25 or a Spade when I’m ready to really get moving.
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When it comes to weight in the bow when stored, there is effectively little
difference between 5/16″ and 3/8″ G40 all chain rode. Since you normally
buy extended lengths of chain by the drum or 1/2 drum the weight is about
the same. A 1/2 drum of 3/8″ (200′) weighs about 310 lbs and a 1/2 drum of
5/16″ (275′) weights about 305 lbs. So you carry more 5/16″ than 3/8″ and
put out more. IMO, the only real difference is swinging room and breaking
strength (hoping that never becomes an issue).
I went with 5/16″ because I had a manual windlass. Now that I’m in the
process of installing an electric windlass I don’t think the choice is
really significant.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comOn Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Page Two wrote:
Now that we’re talking about chain weight and how it helps keep the load
off an anchor, I’m going to ASSume that the difference in weight between
say 100′ of 5/16 and 100′ of 3/8 chain is more than a “one up” size anchor
weight. So 200′ or 300′ of 3/8 chain along with an even “one up” size
anchor is really putting some weight up forward. I guess the 3/8 helps when
it’s not blowing stink but when it is and the chain is humming tight, it’s
the scope and anchor that’ll keep you put. I’m going to stay with the 5’16
chain and play around with the 45# CQR for a spell locally (SE States) only
because most all my experience has been CQR. I’m sure I’ll go to something
like a Rocna 25 or a Spade when I’m ready to really get moving._______________________________________________
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I’d say stay with what you’ve got. 3/8 is about 50% heavier than 5/16. Don’t know how much more wind it takes to pull the catanary out of heavier chain, or if 50% more scope possible for the same weight would be a bigger difference. Bigger chain means replacing the windlass, bigger anchor doesn’t.
I’ve never dragged the 60#Manson, never broke the 5/16 chain.
Quent -
Quent,
I thought you’d never ask. Photos attached. I think I’ll christen my
creation, “Pyramid’s Bane.” Or maybe, “Muh Main Chain Bane, Duane?”I scrounged the 5-1/2 foot, 5/8″ O.D., thick-walled galvanized pipe from a
scrap pile outside a rigging shop in Martinique. Asked inside if I could buy
it and the guy just gave it to me. Back aboard Silverheels, I found I had a
tap that matched the inside diameter of the pipe, so I threaded it to take a
case-hardened bolt I had laying around in a spares can. Found the galvanized
washer in there, too. Its O.D. is just small enough to fit through the deck
fitting I installed last year for getting at the #1 anchor chain pyramids
beneath the windlass. So the whole thing was a freebee, and it has upgraded
my anchor retrieving in a big way, enabling me to knock down the chain
pyramid continuously, with no risk of snapping another wood dowel, while
bringing in the chain as fast as the windlass will feed it. The washer gives
the stick a bit of a claw so I can rake the pile aft sometimes to spread the
chain more evenly around the locker.What’s extra neat about my Frankenstein creation is how closely it matches
the “anchor chain push rod” (sketch attached) that I had drawn for the
machine shop, except that my Frankenstein isn’t stainless steel and it isn’t
welded. And it didn’t cost $100.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Forget West Marine. I’ll sell you mine for only $249.99.
Or (sure) you can make one yourself. It’s really making a difference for me
after a couple of scary episodes when the chain suddenly locked up the
windlass, which of course only happens when it’s nearly all the way in and
the anchor’s about a foot off the bottom. Then the windlass won’t reel in or
feed out. It’s just jammed rock solid. I have to then scramble belowdecks,
dig out the 2 Allen wrenches that fit, fly back to the foredeck and
patiently open up the windlass’ deck pipe cowling to free up the chain block
while the boat drifts through the harbor with an anchor hanging down 15′.
Hard to express how much fun this is.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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What weight oil should I put in my V-Drive??
Lee
Morning Glory________________________________
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30 wt non detergent is what the specs say but i’ve seen gear oil in there.
Bob
I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Jul 2, 2013 5:35 PM, “Lee Yonkers” wrote:What weight oil should I put in my V-Drive??
Lee
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Lee,
SAE 30 oil, but I think some have used other weights. I don’t think the
V-Drive cares that muchRegards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comOn Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 5:35 PM, Lee Yonkers wrote:
What weight oil should I put in my V-Drive??
Lee
Morning Glory________________________________
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In fact, some run that in their engine, tranny, and v-drive and then you
only need to keep one oil on board.Pete
On 7/2/2013 3:37 PM, Robert Fine wrote:
30 wt non detergent is what the specs say but i’ve seen gear oil in there.
Bob
I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Jul 2, 2013 5:35 PM, “Lee Yonkers” wrote:What weight oil should I put in my V-Drive??
Lee
Morning Glory________________________________
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True. I’m too chicken to change my trans oil, though, or I’d do it.
Bob
On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 8:20 PM, Pete Dubler wrote:
In fact, some run that in their engine, tranny, and v-drive and then you
only need to keep one oil on board.Pete
On 7/2/2013 3:37 PM, Robert Fine wrote:
30 wt non detergent is what the specs say but i’ve seen gear oil in there.
Bob
I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Jul 2, 2013 5:35 PM, “Lee Yonkers” wrote:What weight oil should I put in my V-Drive??
Lee
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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I understand you have to flush it and wish I had switched when I rebuilt
my tranny and had the clear opportunity. Thing is I lubricated the
parts with ATF as I assembled the unit and THEN read in the manual that
you could just use motor oil instead.Pete
On 7/2/2013 6:24 PM, Robert Fine wrote:
True. I’m too chicken to change my trans oil, though, or I’d do it.
Bob
On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 8:20 PM, Pete Dubler wrote:
In fact, some run that in their engine, tranny, and v-drive and then you
only need to keep one oil on board.Pete
On 7/2/2013 3:37 PM, Robert Fine wrote:
30 wt non detergent is what the specs say but i’ve seen gear oil in there.
Bob
I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Jul 2, 2013 5:35 PM, “Lee Yonkers” wrote:What weight oil should I put in my V-Drive??
Lee
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That’s true – you do have to flush it, but how many times? What if you
don’t do it enough? Do you do it until the oil doesn’t come out pink?
Those are the questions that make me hesitate…On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 8:30 PM, Pete Dubler wrote:
I understand you have to flush it and wish I had switched when I rebuilt
my tranny and had the clear opportunity. Thing is I lubricated the parts
with ATF as I assembled the unit and THEN read in the manual that you could
just use motor oil instead.Pete
On 7/2/2013 6:24 PM, Robert Fine wrote:
True. I’m too chicken to change my trans oil, though, or I’d do it.
Bob
On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 8:20 PM, Pete Dubler
wrote:In fact, some run that in their engine, tranny, and v-drive and then you
only need to keep one oil on board.
Pete
On 7/2/2013 3:37 PM, Robert Fine wrote:
30 wt non detergent is what the specs say but i’ve seen gear oil in
there.
Bob
I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Jul 2, 2013 5:35 PM, “Lee Yonkers” wrote:What weight oil should I put in my V-Drive??
Lee
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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