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does anyone have experience of fitting a direct to steering autohelm on a ketch rigged 424. I have a Navco belt to wheel driven autohelm which does not seem up to the job.
Thanks for your help.
Mark on Mary Murray
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Mark Oppe
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Hi Mark,
It’s what I have on my 424. I installed it myself. Has worked flawlessly
with the C-80, but can work with any NMEA chart plotter.Bob
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Mark Oppe wrote:
does anyone have experience of fitting a direct to steering autohelm on a
ketch rigged 424. I have a Navco belt to wheel driven autohelm which does
not seem up to the job.Thanks for your help.
Mark on Mary Murray
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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Mark,
My boat came with an Autohelm 3000 on the wheel. I wanted a wheel pilot –
they’re cheaper, easier to install and consume less power than internal
units – but didn’t trust the Autohelm for blue water cruising. I bought a
spare 3000 on eBay, but then decided to just replace the Autohelm with the
stronger, truly waterproof CPT brand unit (http://cptautopilot.com/). It’s
pretty good, much better quality than Autohelm, but still a bit underpowered
for a 42′ boat in a real blow. When conditions warrant, I use the CPT and my
Auto-Helm windvane in combination, each augmenting the other, and can
self-steer through anything.I still carry my two Autohelm 3000’s as spares, and also rigged a tiller
pilot to the windvane as an instant backup. If I ever wind up hand-steering
across an ocean it won’t be for lack of preparation.Tor
SilverHeels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Mark, I have a Raymarine type two linear drive. The unit is off for a rudder repair. It is a pretty straightforward installation, a mounting surface with a backging plate at the stern end of the stbd cockpit locker is where the foot is attached. The other end is terminated on a steering arm attached to the rudder stock. Not much more to it than that.
Chuck
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Mark, I have a Raymarine type two linear drive. The unit is off for a rudder repair. It is a pretty straightforward installation, a mounting surface with a backging plate at the stern end of the stbd cockpit locker is where the foot is attached. The other end is terminated on a steering arm attached to the rudder stock. Not much more to it than that.
Chuck
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There’s a little more than that – first, the full extension of the drive
must be more than the fixed rudder stops and the adjustment at installation
must be less than the fixed rudder stocks.When it’s disengaged you don’t want to be pulling or pushing the drive past
its stops and when it’s engaged, you don’t want it slamming the fixed
stops.I’ve seen more of these units destroyed in one or the other of these ways.
Bob
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Chuck Ruble wrote:
Mark, I have a Raymarine type two linear drive. The unit is off for a
rudder repair. It is a pretty straightforward installation, a mounting
surface with a backging plate at the stern end of the stbd cockpit locker is
where the foot is attached. The other end is terminated on a steering arm
attached to the rudder stock. Not much more to it than that.Chuck
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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Here’s how one owner did it on a P-424:
http://www.oceannavigator.com/content/installing-powerful-belowdecks-autopilot
Quent
Clairebuoyant, #132 -
Here’s how one owner did it on a P-424:
http://www.oceannavigator.com/content/installing-powerful-belowdecks-autopilot
Quent
Clairebuoyant, #132_______________________________________________
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Mark,
Replacing the wheel Autohelm with a 6000+ below decks autopilot was probably
the first major upgrade I did to Sarah in 2000. It’s still going strong,
but I did replace the course computer in 2006. I believe the original
computer failed due to my SSB installation. Wiring for the SSB ran too
close to the old computer. No problems with this setup since 2006.
I let the boatyard munchins do the installation of the drive unit in the
starboard locker. I can get into that locker, but then I can’t move.
Beware of DIY recommendations from some of the munchin owners on this email
list if you are over 6′ .Here is a link to some pics of the installation on Sarah.
http://www.svsarah.com/Sarah/ewUpgradeDeckRig.htm#Autopilot
The pictures are of the drive unit are not very good as they were shot blind
for the reason stated above.On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 1:49 PM, quent wrote:
Here’s how one owner did it on a P-424:
http://www.oceannavigator.com/content/installing-powerful-belowdecks-autopilot
Quent
Clairebuoyant, #132_______________________________________________
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Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com
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There should have been a smiley face after the last sentence in the first
paragraph, as below:“Beware of DIY recommendations from some of the munchin owners on this email
list if you are over 6′ [?].”On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 1:59 PM, John Stevenson wrote:
Mark,
Replacing the wheel Autohelm with a 6000+ below decks autopilot was
probably the first major upgrade I did to Sarah in 2000. It’s still going
strong, but I did replace the course computer in 2006. I believe the
original computer failed due to my SSB installation. Wiring for the SSB ran
too close to the old computer. No problems with this setup since 2006.
I let the boatyard munchins do the installation of the drive unit in the
starboard locker. I can get into that locker, but then I can’t move.
Beware of DIY recommendations from some of the munchin owners on this email
list if you are over 6′ .Here is a link to some pics of the installation on Sarah.
http://www.svsarah.com/Sarah/ewUpgradeDeckRig.htm#Autopilot
The pictures are of the drive unit are not very good as they were shot
blind for the reason stated above.On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 1:49 PM, quent wrote:
Here’s how one owner did it on a P-424:
http://www.oceannavigator.com/content/installing-powerful-belowdecks-autopilot
Quent
Clairebuoyant, #132_______________________________________________
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Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com_______________________________________________
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Deep Playa also has an Alpha Marine Systems 3000
http://www.alphamarinesystems.com/sales_3000.htmIt’s a bit antiquated
looking, but we use it a lot when we’re motoring in the frugal summer winds
in Puget Sound and it works fine. The drive unit are mounted on a very
sturdy beam in the starboard side of the aft lazarette. I just spent 10
minutes looking for a picture of that, and I don’t have one. 🙁Anyway, seems solid, have no plans to replace it.
-p—
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comOn Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 7:21 AM, Mark Oppe wrote:
does anyone have experience of fitting a direct to steering autohelm on a
ketch rigged 424. I have a Navco belt to wheel driven autohelm which does
not seem up to the job.Thanks for your help.
Mark on Mary Murray
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
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Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
Tor,
I also have the Autohelm and CPT combination. I have never used the two
in tandem. How does that work? How do you keep them from fighting each
other?Pete
On 1/24/2011 9:25 AM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:Mark,My boat came with an Autohelm 3000 on the wheel. I wanted a wheel pilot –
they’re cheaper, easier to install and consume less power than internal
units – but didn’t trust the Autohelm for blue water cruising. I bought a
spare 3000 on eBay, but then decided to just replace the Autohelm with the
stronger, truly waterproof CPT brand unit (http://cptautopilot.com/). It’s
pretty good, much better quality than Autohelm, but still a bit underpowered
for a 42′ boat in a real blow. When conditions warrant, I use the CPT and my
Auto-Helm windvane in combination, each augmenting the other, and can
self-steer through anything.I still carry my two Autohelm 3000’s as spares, and also rigged a tiller
pilot to the windvane as an instant backup. If I ever wind up hand-steering
across an ocean it won’t be for lack of preparation.Tor
SilverHeels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Patrick,
I think this is the picture you are looking for. Got it from Jack a few
years ago.On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Pete Dubler wrote:
Quote:Tor,I also have the Autohelm and CPT combination. I have never used the two in
tandem. How does that work? How do you keep them from fighting each other?Pete
On 1/24/2011 9:25 AM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:Mark,My boat came with an Autohelm 3000 on the wheel. I wanted a wheel pilot –
they’re cheaper, easier to install and consume less power than internal
units – but didn’t trust the Autohelm for blue water cruising. I bought a
spare 3000 on eBay, but then decided to just replace the Autohelm with the
stronger, truly waterproof CPT brand unit (http://cptautopilot.com/).
It’s
pretty good, much better quality than Autohelm, but still a bit
underpowered
for a 42′ boat in a real blow. When conditions warrant, I use the CPT and
my
Auto-Helm windvane in combination, each augmenting the other, and can
self-steer through anything.I still carry my two Autohelm 3000’s as spares, and also rigged a tiller
pilot to the windvane as an instant backup. If I ever wind up
hand-steering
across an ocean it won’t be for lack of preparation.Tor
SilverHeels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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One of the best things I found for using the Octopus hydraulic cylinder and pump is that the entire unit is repairable at sea with common tools by the common person. Most of the other units require that they be sent in to be repaired. (Raymaine uses a small nylon pinion gear in their drive that is only factory repairable)
http://www.octopusmarine.ca/content/products-and-services/linear-actuators.htm
The other thing which is probably a function of both the pump/cylinder and the control head is the SPEED lock to lock to be able to control the both fast enough in large ocean swells on the bean and aft.
For the control head I use the Raymarine X30 control head.
Been very happy with both. Norfolk to Bermuda, Bermuda to ST Maartin etc……
Alan— On Mon, 1/24/11, John Stevenson wrote:
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Hi Pete,
Sorry if I wasn’t clear about what I’m using. I have a CPT electric wheel
pilot and an Auto-Helm brand windvane made by Scanmar Marine, the same
factory that makes the Monitor windvane. The Auto-Helm brand windvane is no
relation to Autohelm brand autopilots. (The two Autohelm 3000’s I have are
in a locker, emergency back-up units if the CPT breaks.)As for keeping the autopilot and the windvane from fighting each other, I
suppose the trick is to let them, but just marginally:The boat develops weather helm in strong winds. Of course, I first trim out
as much of that as possible with the sails, but sometimes that’s not enough,
or sometimes I just want to fly canvas to keep the boat moving fast. If the
windvane is steering more radically than I want, as it may in fluky winds
and/or compound seas, I switch on the wheel pilot to help hold a tighter
course. If the CPT autopilot is fighting a lot of weather helm, I set the
windvane to steer a tad farther off the wind than the autopilot setting.
That takes the strain off the autopilot, which easily compensates for slight
the windvane-created lee helm. Once I’ve got the right balance, the CPT is
just barely working to make small course adjustments using minimal
electricity. The Auto-Helm’s big steering rudder does all the hard work of
balancing out the weather helm and compensating for large waves, the power
coming from the passing water rather than from the battery bank. I can
usually achieve this balance in 10 or 20 seconds now that I’m used to doing
it. Each unit relieves the workload on the other. Together they steer easily
and accurately.I realize most owners have an internal autopilot. I have no issue with
those, other than their high initial cost and relatively big amperage draw
under sails. There is no question they are stronger than any wheel pilot,
and can often function perfectly for years. What I do take issue with is
relying on only one form of self-steering aboard a boat making long passages
or even just going cruising, especially when sailed by a couple or a
single-hander. That’s just asking for trouble. It’s going to break
eventually, and if Murphy has anything to do with it it’ll break a thousand
miles from nowhere. For me an optimum self-steering set-up for cruising
includes a primary autopilot (with a complete set of spare parts or else a
complete spare unit), a windvane (with spare parts), and at least one tiller
pilot ready to connect to the windvane. A bare minimum is 2 complete
autopilots.IMHO,
Tor
SilverHeels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Tor,
Sorry, I forgot that your Auto-Helm is your windvane. I know you have
mentioned that before and quite recently in fact.Good sailing,
Pete
On 1/24/2011 8:40 PM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:Hi Pete,Sorry if I wasn’t clear about what I’m using. I have a CPT electric wheel
pilot and an Auto-Helm brand windvane made by Scanmar Marine, the same
factory that makes the Monitor windvane. The Auto-Helm brand windvane is no
relation to Autohelm brand autopilots. (The two Autohelm 3000’s I have are
in a locker, emergency back-up units if the CPT breaks.)As for keeping the autopilot and the windvane from fighting each other, I
suppose the trick is to let them, but just marginally:The boat develops weather helm in strong winds. Of course, I first trim out
as much of that as possible with the sails, but sometimes that’s not enough,
or sometimes I just want to fly canvas to keep the boat moving fast. If the
windvane is steering more radically than I want, as it may in fluky winds
and/or compound seas, I switch on the wheel pilot to help hold a tighter
course. If the CPT autopilot is fighting a lot of weather helm, I set the
windvane to steer a tad farther off the wind than the autopilot setting.
That takes the strain off the autopilot, which easily compensates for slight
the windvane-created lee helm. Once I’ve got the right balance, the CPT is
just barely working to make small course adjustments using minimal
electricity. The Auto-Helm’s big steering rudder does all the hard work of
balancing out the weather helm and compensating for large waves, the power
coming from the passing water rather than from the battery bank. I can
usually achieve this balance in 10 or 20 seconds now that I’m used to doing
it. Each unit relieves the workload on the other. Together they steer easily
and accurately.I realize most owners have an internal autopilot. I have no issue with
those, other than their high initial cost and relatively big amperage draw
under sails. There is no question they are stronger than any wheel pilot,
and can often function perfectly for years. What I do take issue with is
relying on only one form of self-steering aboard a boat making long passages
or even just going cruising, especially when sailed by a couple or a
single-hander. That’s just asking for trouble. It’s going to break
eventually, and if Murphy has anything to do with it it’ll break a thousand
miles from nowhere. For me an optimum self-steering set-up for cruising
includes a primary autopilot (with a complete set of spare parts or else a
complete spare unit), a windvane (with spare parts), and at least one tiller
pilot ready to connect to the windvane. A bare minimum is 2 complete
autopilots.IMHO,
Tor
SilverHeels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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