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James,
When you figure it out please let the rest of us know. It’s mostly a matter
of practice and getting able to anticipate the effect of stern walk in
reverse along with wind and current.
That’s the reason I nearly always pull in bow first. In addition avoiding
the embarrassment of miss-judging the wind, current and stern walk, I also
protect the Monitor windvane on the stern from contact with the dock or a
piling and the rudder from contact with hard stuff on the bottom.
The only time I back into a slip is when it has a short finger pier that
would require climbing over the bow to get on and off (love those long
floating docks). If I do decide to back into the slip I usually do it using
a spring line on one of the pilings. That only works if the adjacent boats
don’t stick out beyond outer pilings.If that is a folding and not feathering prop, it may contribute to your
problems. The standard folding props form the 70s and 80s don’t do well in
reverse and can take a while to deploy when reversing. One more thing to
factor into the docking dance.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comOn Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 7:56 PM, jamesminge wrote:
I’m a new 424 owner, and recently had a devil of a time backing into a slip
facing north-south (stern was heading north), 10k east-southeast breeze.
what is the trick? i have a two blade folding prop. thanks, jim_______________________________________________
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On more reason for docking bow-in. I sleep in the aft cabin and like to
leave the companionway hatch open during the warm months. I get more
privacy with the stern-out.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comOn Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 8:32 PM, John Stevenson wrote:
James,
When you figure it out please let the rest of us know. It’s mostly a
matter of practice and getting able to anticipate the effect of stern walk
in reverse along with wind and current.
That’s the reason I nearly always pull in bow first. In addition avoiding
the embarrassment of miss-judging the wind, current and stern walk, I also
protect the Monitor windvane on the stern from contact with the dock or a
piling and the rudder from contact with hard stuff on the bottom.
The only time I back into a slip is when it has a short finger pier that
would require climbing over the bow to get on and off (love those long
floating docks). If I do decide to back into the slip I usually do it using
a spring line on one of the pilings. That only works if the adjacent boats
don’t stick out beyond outer pilings.If that is a folding and not feathering prop, it may contribute to your
problems. The standard folding props form the 70s and 80s don’t do well in
reverse and can take a while to deploy when reversing. One more thing to
factor into the docking dance.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comOn Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 7:56 PM, jamesminge wrote:
I’m a new 424 owner, and recently had a devil of a time backing into a
slip facing north-south (stern was heading north), 10k east-southeast
breeze. what is the trick? i have a two blade folding prop. thanks, jim_______________________________________________
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Here’s what I do… try to avoid backing up as a means of navigation….
when I have to do I hand pushturn the boat from the dock as much as
possible because she just plain don’t like to be steered in reverse.We’ve gotten pretty good at warping the boat 180 degree on a side tie pier
or even t just 90 degrees before we head out.-p
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s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.com | @DeepPlayaOn Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 4:56 PM, jamesminge wrote:
I’m a new 424 owner, and recently had a devil of a time backing into a slip
facing north-south (stern was heading north), 10k east-southeast breeze.
what is the trick? i have a two blade folding prop. thanks, jim_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttp://server12.websitehostserver.net/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
_______________________________________________
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Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
Yes! As Patrick said… use spring lines. You can make a boat do just
about anything but roll over with spring lines. I love pulling out at
90% from a fuel dock with spring lines with a boat directly in front and
behind me or doing the same to come off a dock that I was otherwise
pinned to by the winds.Pete
On 9/23/2011 7:01 PM, Patrick “Peaboy” Walters wrote:
Here’s what I do… try to avoid backing up as a means of navigation….
when I have to do I hand pushturn the boat from the dock as much as
possible because she just plain don’t like to be steered in reverse.We’ve gotten pretty good at warping the boat 180 degree on a side tie pier
or even t just 90 degrees before we head out.-p
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s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.com | @DeepPlayaOn Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 4:56 PM, jamesminge wrote:
I’m a new 424 owner, and recently had a devil of a time backing into a slip
facing north-south (stern was heading north), 10k east-southeast breeze.
what is the trick? i have a two blade folding prop. thanks, jim_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttp://server12.websitehostserver.net/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
_______________________________________________
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Docking is theater for the marina…. don’t let everyone down with a boring
performance !-p
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s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.com | @DeepPlayaOn Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 8:59 PM, jamesminge wrote:
Many thanks John and Patrick for the advice, and for making me feel less
foolish for the “show” I put on at the dock the other day. Jim_______________________________________________
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Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
Some of my best entertained afternoons have been in marinas or anchorages, watching the show. I never fail to give one or two myself.
The thing is to make it look like that was your plan, and that you executed it well……
But in any case, Planning and talking everything over with your crew well in advance works well. ALWAYS have a plan B. Pay attention to the wind and current and plan to use it to your advantage. Sometimes slow is your friend….. other times fast is better than getting caught in a crosswind. You have a powerful engine and big prop…..to get you out of trouble.
Try not to get yourself into a position that you will have trouble getting out of later…… Think 2 steps ahead.
Remember that it’s a long boat and the people in the bow can’t hear you – use good hand signals. It’s a heavy boat and can not be “Pulled” into the dock……Happy Docking
Alan— On Fri, 9/23/11, jamesminge wrote:
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Having made every mistake possible with Pelican (although I still find
things I can do to make an afternoon for everyone at the marina), I can
offer these few tips:1. It is MUCH easier to back to starboard than port. Not that you can’t do
it, but you’d better have a lot of room and a strong heart. So if I’m
putting the port side to a slip by backing in, I go past the slip as far as
I can and then back in. Sometimes it works pretty well. If you have the
choice, port side to when backing in. If not, be ready to be amusing. Use
warps.2. The wind can be your friend. Although the 424 is not as subject to
windmilling as a modern fin keel boat, it will eventually point downwind
left to its own devices. That can really help you getting into and out of a
slip. It can also hurt so take it into account, especially if there’s not a
lot of room. I’ve been known to go sideways down the fairway because that’s
what the wind dictates – going forward or astern only to keep from hitting
other boats. It’s funny to watch, nervous making to do, but almost always
garners applause. In my marina, there is only like 5′ more space between
fingers on different docks than the length of the 424. If you make a
mistake, or the wind takes you, the best you can do is control the boat away
from others.3. You can back down a fairway. There’s no law that says you have to go bow
first. True, the 424 backs randomly, but predominantly to starboard. If
the wind is coming from the direction you want to go and you have to back
into your slip, back into the wind. More control.This reminds me of a story in Rivera Beach Municipal Marina. I mean one
other than being boarded by the Coast Guard at the absolute worst possible
time in the worst possible place (in the narrow channel between Peanut
Island and the marina entrance).Anyway, the docks there are short concrete, fixed docks that require backing
into with a cross current that can be as fast as 3 knots. It took me like 5
tries to get into the slip by myself without taking out fifteen or twenty
boats. The point here is that you can do it. Just realize when it’s going
bad and stop and try it again. Trust me, unless you’re drugged to the gills
on legal or illegal substances, you’ll feel it in your gut that the world is
going sideways. Just stop. Get out of your predicament as smoothly as
possible and try again. If there are people on the dock waiting to help
you, they’ll stay for two reasons: 1; it’s fun to watch, and 2; they’ve been
there and know how difficult it is. Most will offer a beer if you dock
successfully (meaning you didn’t hole your or someone else’s boat. If you
do, probably they’ll offer scotch..)As has been offered before, have a plan ‘B’. Really important. Also, don’t
be afraid to lay against a piling if necessary. That’s what they’re there
for.I think that’s all the questionable wisdom I can impart. I’m sure I’ll
continue to learn more as the years pass.Wait, there’s one more thing: Keep your cool. There’s a tendency to use
the throttle and gear shift as a weapon when things go awry. Don’t.
Finesse is better and will result in your looking like a real pro.
Obviously if you’re going to crash, do what’s necessary, but try not to get
into that situation (see above). Invariably, when the 424 is presented with
emergency astern it will back in exactly the wrong direction. Experience
talking here.Ok, that’s it. Really.
Bob
On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 8:41 AM, Alan wrote:
Quote:Some of my best entertained afternoons have been in marinas or anchorages,
watching the show. I never fail to give one or two myself.
The thing is to make it look like that was your plan, and that you executed
it well……
But in any case, Planning and talking everything over with your crew well
in advance works well. ALWAYS have a plan B. Pay attention to the wind and
current and plan to use it to your advantage. Sometimes slow is your
friend….. other times fast is better than getting caught in a crosswind.
You have a powerful engine and big prop…..to get you out of trouble.
Try not to get yourself into a position that you will have trouble getting
out of later…… Think 2 steps ahead.
Remember that it’s a long boat and the people in the bow can’t hear you –
use good hand signals. It’s a heavy boat and can not be “Pulled” into the
dock……Happy Docking
Alan— On Fri, 9/23/11, jamesminge wrote:
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Regarding plan B… why is it that when we parallel park a car if things
are not going quite right we pull out and start again but with a boat
you rarely see someone pull back out of the slip, reorganize, and start
again?On 9/24/2011 6:41 AM, Alan wrote:
Quote:Some of my best entertained afternoons have been in marinas or anchorages, watching the show. I never fail to give one or two myself.
The thing is to make it look like that was your plan, and that you executed it well……
But in any case, Planning and talking everything over with your crew well in advance works well. ALWAYS have a plan B. Pay attention to the wind and current and plan to use it to your advantage. Sometimes slow is your friend….. other times fast is better than getting caught in a crosswind. You have a powerful engine and big prop…..to get you out of trouble.
Try not to get yourself into a position that you will have trouble getting out of later…… Think 2 steps ahead.
Remember that it’s a long boat and the people in the bow can’t hear you – use good hand signals. It’s a heavy boat and can not be “Pulled” into the dock……Happy Docking
Alan— On Fri, 9/23/11, jamesminge wrote:
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Most engines are ‘right hand’ and most boats walk to port in reverse. Ours walk to the right with the addition of the V-drive. Even the walk though isn’t a dependable source of direction. Trying to steer the boat in reverse is about impossible. A thruster is very effective, lock the rudder amidships and use it to steer, but we don’t all have those.
I’ve found that the method below works with most any boat, even the unruly full keel with the tiny two blade prop. The trick is getting the ass end of the boat as close as possible to the slip before backing;
If your slip will accommodate it, approach the slip at a 90 degree angle with the slip on stbd, about 8-10 feet out from the slip. About the time the bow reaches the port outside piling cut it hard to port and put it in neutral if not already. Give it a burst in reverse, swing the rudder to stbd when stopped and leave it in reverse at idle. It should back you right into the slip. Current and wind not considered in this description.
If you get out of shape the boat can be spun on its keel with the rudder to port and alternating between a quick blast of fwd to spin to port and followed with a little reverse halt your forward momentum and crawl to stbd. Spin it around, go back out and try it again.
Don’t put fenders out, they will snag things and get you all out of shape.
Approach it no faster than you would want to hit it. If you hit it, act like you meant too.
Hope this helps.
Chuck
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Here’s my 2¢ on this subject. Chuck’s 3rd & 4th paragraphs (below), plus
a well-placed, well-handled spring line, are the keys to backing into
most slips in most conditions. Here are two other hints:– As mentioned by several others, the 424’s stern kicks decidedly to
starboard from a dead stop. However, you can steer almost any boat with
the rudder in reverse once the boat is making sternway. I have often
gotten the boat moving backwards with the engine, allowing for the
“walking” to starboard, then shifted to neutral and steered with the
helm. You can even use idle reverse gear and still have decent steerage
as long as the boat’s already moving a couple of knots or more.– If there’s a strong breeze blowing more or less directly into the slip
(and if space allows), you can drop an anchor to windward on short scope
and use it to hold the bow up while the boat eases back. Later you can
retrieve the anchor with the dinghy, or just slack the rode and leave it
until you pull out again.Many years ago I had an engineless gaff ketch, 41′ LOA, and docked her
many times under sail. However, according to the local salts a former
owner of that boat used to routinely back her into a slip at Dinner Key
Marina under sail, presumably using spring lines, the mizzen and maybe a
little bit of backed jib. I never had occasion to try it myself. Now,
there was a sailor to make the rest of us feel properly humble.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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sorry to bump an ole thread, but I found this most helpful:
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