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Some owners have mentioned the tendancy for the sides of the bow to flex in heavy seas, and said that the fix was to reinforce the section. I seem to recall that one owner said that the fix was to tab the shelves in place.
While preparing for offshore passage to the Caribbean, I checked Madness, and found that the shelves were tabbed in, and glued and screwed in the front and rear. Except for port forward end, where someone neglected to screw the shelf in, the tabbing is beginning to separate just a little bit. I plan to make sure that it is clued and screwed properly.
Is there any need to reinforce more than fixing the attachment of the shelves?
BTW – I did check the tabbing under the Vee berth too, and it is fine.
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Do you have any pictures of where the shelves are
tabbed and to what extent?
thanks
alan____________________________________________________________________________________
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Walter
Try to imagine having your boat heeled over until the rail is almost in the water. Then run up the face of a steep 20 foot wave and drop off the back side until everything up the forward section of your boat is in freefall. The flat section of the bow will slap against the trough on the back side of the wave. Now imagine doing that for a day or two. I saw similar failure of the tabbing on my port shelf just before heading offshore many years ago. I tried to glass it in myself, but my glasswork wasn’t good enough. IMHO, If you are serious about preparing your boat for offshore work, have more glass added to the inside hull area in the v-berth. If you just do coastal cruising, reinforcing the fasters where the v-bunk shelf attaches to the forward bulkhead is probably sufficient.—
Rich Carter
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I’ll try to remember to take photos and post them after my boat is launched. Right now, the v-berth is full of sails and stuff. It looks very much like it did before the glasswork was redone except the insides of the v-berth are white gelcoat. I had the repairs done in Bermuda just before we left for the return passage. I had them gelcoat the inside to try to keep the smell from the epoxy down. Its easy to keep clean. One of these days I plan to lay in teak over the gelcoat.
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Rich Carter
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The guy who did the glass work for me originally planned to lay in vertical reinforcing strips. His plan was to cut PVC pipe in half sections and glass them over the inside of the hull. He changed his mind and instead laid-in 3/8″ of glass over what was there. The layers were done with 24″ wide cloth. Each section overlapped, so there is 3/4″ of glass added where the sections overlap. I think the reason he changed his mind was that it would have been difficult to get the PVC pipe to lay flat against the hull while the epoxy cured.
He ground down the inside of the hull using an angle grinder and coarse sandpaper. This kicked up a huge cloud of fibergass dust that got into everything even though the forward door was closed while he worked.. He then laid in the new glass over what was left. It took him about 16 hours to do the work. The bill came to about $2500. This was 12 years ago.
I thought that what Peter had done was for cosmetic reasons only. The strips were glued in to allow fastening the ash battens in place. There’s no reason that they couldn’t be structural of they were glassed over before the battens were attached. Wood ribs could be easier to attach than PVC pipe because they could be cut to fit.
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Rich Carter
BlackSheep #47
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I like the idea of the ash battons, and since you have to put in mounting points, may as well make them structural.
I am thinking vertical foamcore strips, 1/2″ X 2″.
I just searched the forum for the source for ash battens but that discussion was before Pat started the forum. Does anyone know of a good source?
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see: https://www.pearson424.org/interior/Q424walls.html
We had a local carpenter make the battens up for both the v-berth and the aft cabin.. It doesn't take someone with equipment very long to make them. Some day we'll even get around to putting them in.
– pat
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 2:12 PM, Seawater < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I like the idea of the ash battons, and since you have to put in mounting points, may as well make them structural.
I am thinking vertical foamcore strips, 1/2″ X 2″.
I just searched the forum for the source for ash battens but that discussion was before Pat started the forum. Does anyone know of a good source?
Walter
SV Madness
P424 Hull #1Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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I had the finish carpenter who made my pocket door arches rip them from stock he had left over and I traded for some furniture grade red oak I had laying around. Got a big piece of 2×6 teak for an anchor pulpit/sprit too. Any decent yard will carry the stock. Use someone close, b/c the money you save could be spent on shipping.Adam Silverstein
On Apr 28, 2008, at 3:17 PM, pat noordsij wrote:
see: https://www.pearson424.org/interior/Q424walls.html
We had a local carpenter make the battens up for both the v-berth and the aft cabin.. It doesn’t take someone with equipment very long to make them. Some day we’ll even get around to putting them in.
– pat
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 2:12 PM, Seawater < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I like the idea of the ash battons, and since you have to put in mounting points, may as well make them structural.
I am thinking vertical foamcore strips, 1/2″ X 2″.
I just searched the forum for the source for ash battens but that discussion was before Pat started the forum. Does anyone know of a good source?
Walter
SV Madness
P424 Hull #1Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Rich,
The reinforcement ribs (vertical) are under the horizontal ash battens.
The reinforcement ribs can be seen in the “before” picture on my
website. (http://www.dublerfamily.com then go to the boat, then to the
interior modifications page)Pete
wrote:
Quote:The guy who did the glass work for me originally planned to lay in vertical reinforcing strips. His plan was to cut PVC pipe in half sections and glass them over the inside of the hull. He changed his mind and instead laid-in 3/8″ of glass over what was there. The layers were done with 24″ wide cloth. Each section overlapped, so there is 3/4″ of glass added where the sections overlap. I think the reason he changed his mind was that it would have been difficult to get the PVC pipe to lay flat against the hull while the epoxy cured.He ground down the inside of the hull using an angle grinder and coarse sandpaper. This kicked up a huge cloud of fibergass dust that got into everything even though the forward door was closed while he worked.. He then laid in the new glass over what was left. It took him about 16 hours to do the work. The bill came to about $2500. This was 12 years ago.
I thought that what Peter had done was for cosmetic reasons only. The strips were glued in to allow fastening the ash battens in place. There’s no reason that they couldn’t be structural of they were glassed over before the battens were attached. Wood ribs could be easier to attach than PVC pipe because they could be cut to fit.
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Rich Carter
BlackSheep #47
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Wish I had taken better “before” pictures. These are from the sales
listing.Yes, indeed, I hope we do meet in person and see each others’ boats.
Regina Oceani is on the hard these days in Oriental, NC. and I miss her.Pete
Rich Carter wrote:
Quote:Thanks Peter
I can barely see the ribs in the photo. It makes sense though. Hope to see
your boat some day; looks like you’ve put quite a lot of thought and effort
into her.Regards
Rich
BlackSheep #47Quote:
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Re bow reenforcement, and oil canning. Some years ago, the issue was raised in the NPYOA newsletter and Bill Shaw, the Pearson designer addressed it. I’ll see if I can find a copy. If I remember correctly, he recommended additional layup of a layer of mat, 1/2″ balsa core then a couple layers of mat and woven roving.
Quent Kinderman
Clairebuoyant, sloop, #132 -
@quent wrote:
Re bow reenforcement, and oil canning. Some years ago, the issue was raised in the NPYOA newsletter and Bill Shaw, the Pearson designer addressed it. I’ll see if I can find a copy. If I remember correctly, he recommended additional layup of a layer of mat, 1/2″ balsa core then a couple layers of mat and woven roving.
Quent Kinderman
Clairebuoyant, sloop, #132Here’s the reply you were looking for:
http://www.pearsoncurrent.com/tpcarchive/Vol5/tpc-5-2.htmI have a small yacht maintenance business in Gulfport, MS and have the privilege of taking care of three P424s. I believe all three owners are members of your Association. One of the owners wants us to beef up the v-berth to prevent oil canning. I’ve read several articles in The Current on this problem, but I am not sure if I should lay some thicker glass on the inside of the hull or seek another solution. I know the shelves and v-berth need reinforcing where they come in contact with the hull. It seems to me that the hull is very thin under the shelf down to the v-berth. Any ideas that you might have would be most helpful.
— Brian Welch
I would recommend the following between the underside of the shelf and the top of the V-berth:
1. Sand the inside of the hull to remove any wax, glue, etc.
2. Apply one layer of 1.5 oz. mat in this area. Catalyze the resin for a slow cure to keep it cool to prevent print through.
3. Before the mat cures, wet the panel of 3/8″ thick balsa with resin that will go against the hull and apply pressure to the balsa for a good bond. Note that you should taper all 4 edges of the balsa over a width of 2″.)
4. After this lay up has cured, apply one layer of 1.5 oz. mat and over this one layer of 1.8 oz. woven roving. This should stiffen the area considerably.
On a side not apparenly the entire PearsonCurrent site is now open to the public.
-p
Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick!
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