Cap rail removal

[typhoontye]

Hello all,
Sadly, Blue Moon was damaged during Hurricane Sally in Pensacola. The cap rail/strip (top most/horizontal portion of the gunwale) on the port side was splintered and requires replacement. I’ve been involved in one other similar project on another type of vessel, but not a 424.
I hope to remove the damaged section pretty much intact, so as to serve as a pattern for a replacement piece. I might contract out the mill work. So my question is, has anyone reading this done this job? In my case, I will need to remove the genoa traveler track first. Then find and remove any hardware fastening the cap rail to the bulwark. I suspect the cap rail is bonded to the boat. Probably 5200 if my past experience is any indication. I’ve never tried heat to soften the 5200 (or other bond) but that is my current planned approach. Any past experiences any of you might have had is appreciated!

David
Blue Moon

[Idyll Ours]

I believe regina oceans had a very good descriptive summary of their replacement project but I can’t seem to get on their project summary through the 424 site.

[Idyll Ours]

I found a link using google and searching regina oceani and Pete Dubler brought me to an excellent article on plastics and the descriptions of how he installed replacements of most or all surface wood on his 424.

[typhoontye]

Thanks for the response, Idyll Ours. Quite an interesting article for sure. Pete’s efforts with Regina Oceani humble most of the rest of us, I’m sure! Quite a vessel.

He didn’t describe how he removed the old teak, which is unfortunate for me. Perhaps it wasn’t a big enough task to bother with that detail (I’m hoping!). I’ll let ya’ll know how the project goes…

David

[RichCarter]

I assume that you are talking about the teak top to the toe-rail and perhaps the outside portion as well. I removed and replaced a section of mine after it was damaged many years ago. In my case, the rail was damaged just forward of the Genoa track for a length of about five feet. I diagonally cut the damaged portion and removed it. I purchased a section of 3/4″ teak and using the old piece as a template, drilled holes to match what I was replacing. I found that the old piece was bedded with either silicon or poly-sulfide caulkI can’t remember which. It came up with no problem. I applied poly-sulfide as a replacement bedding and used Resourcinal 2-part wood glue to bond the replacement to the diagonal cut I made in the old cap. I ran a router with a laminate bit (with wheel guide) down the outside and inside rail to finish fitting it. My boat now has the winter cover on her so I can’t send a photo. Not much to see however, you have to look close to see the replaced piece.

[Bryan Bywalec]

Idyll Ours wrote:

I can’t seem to get on their project summary through the 424 site.

Looks like the Regina wesbite is now offline. You can find a summary of the projects using the waybackmachine from the internet archive here: https://web.archive.org/web/20190814093108/http://dublerfamily.com/Regina_oceani/Regina_Oceani.html

I’ll update the 424 site and try and get permission to republish that page here…

-----
Bryan Bywalec
S/V Pelican, Hull 209
Siren Engineering, LLC

[typhoontye]

Thanks for the replies guys. Quite encouraging. I also heard from Paul Fucetola off of Isaias (with pictures) via e-mail. Paul’s actually looked worse than mine. His experience was similar to Bryans’. So we’re off to Pensacola tomorrow to initiate the removal of the damaged piece(s). I’ll take the heat gun but from the sound of it I won’t need it…
Thanks again!
Bryan, it would certainly be interesting to look at Regina’s projects in more detail… Appreciate your efforts on behalf of us all!

David

[typhoontye]

Update: We removed the jib traveler track. Not a real problem, but what you might expect. A lot of bending and twisting to get to the fasteners under deck. I bit surprised, a lot of the nuts weren’t particularly snug. But they were all there.

We also removed the badly damaged wood rub strake (was this original equipment? I couldn’t really tell. Perhaps an option). This job was more difficult as at least half the SS machine screws were badly mangled. Wound up breaking a lot of these off with vise grips. Of course now I have even more holes (from the fasteners) in the hull. Taped off for now. And getting to the nuts on the inside of the hull entailed removing a lot of the cosmetic vinyl sheet from the side of the hull. The wife doesn’t like this stuff, so we may wind up trying an alternative covering. It didn’t fare too well anyway in the removal process. If anyone has any ideas on this I’m all ears. I don’t want to furr out for wood because it would eat into our space…

And ultimately decided not to remove the cap strip and gunwale piece. For now. No need to expose more holes to the rain (Zeta is coming). And since I have insurance money and logistics are difficult for us, I’ll probably get this trim work done for me while the boat is in the yard. Likely to be there for a bit.

Thanks to all for the information provided on the cap rail!

David
Blue Moon

[Rich Harris]

David,
Been following this thread. I have this project coming in the next year or two. Regarding the interior finishing, I had a conversation with a guy on Instagram who owns a 424 #nickrotindo about that. He used a really cool idea to refinish the insides of his cabinets with exterior paint mixed with This stuff: https://www.homedepot.com/p/STYRO-Industries-5-Gal-Foundation-Grey-Tuff-II-Foundation-Coating-TTFG/203009638
He mixed it 1 part paint to 4 parts foundation coating.
From his photos and videos he sent me, this is a really good alternative to finishing the inside surfaces of the hull. He trowels it on then finishes off with a texture roller like you would with kiwi-grip. The finish looks really nice.
I’ve purchased everything I need to do the same but have yet to apply it. It’s on schedule for this winter.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 12 months ago by Rich Harris.

[RichCarter]

I can tell you from experience that the hull will flex a bit when out in rough seas. If you’re coating the inside of the hull with anything, it has to adhere well and not crack when flexed. Have you had to boat out in rough seas after using this stuff? By rough, I mean pounding conditions.

[Rich Harris]

RichCarter wrote:

I can tell you from experience that the hull will flex a bit when out in rough seas. If you’re coating the inside of the hull with anything, it has to adhere well and not crack when flexed. Have you had to boat out in rough seas after using this stuff? By rough, I mean pounding conditions.

Rich, I have not applied it yet. Nick did. I see your point and I understand the coating dries to a flexible consistency. Almost rubbery. I’ll give it a test at home first then maybe in a small area like the v berth first. Good point.

[Dunphyje]

David,
I am a bit confused about applying a sealant to the inside of the hull..
It seems to me that a sealant is used to keep water and moisture from penetrating or leaking thru the hull or in a basement wall..
That is very different from using insulation to block the transmission of heat or cold thru the hull to keep the boat cool in summer or warm in winter..
If the issue is condensation then the insulation needs to be thicker or more efficient thereby keeping the dew point out of the interior of the boat..
Did I misunderstand the use of the sealant?
John
S/V Mela

John
S/V Mela

[typhoontye]

Hello John,
Yes, I think there is some confusion. The material that Rich mentioned in his thread is an elastomeric coating, it appears, usually used for moisture control (applied to the outside surface to prevent penetration of moisture). The thought is to apply this material to the inside of the hull as a cosmetic alternative to the original vinyl material that was glued to the raw fiberglass at the factory (this vinyl seems to collect mold and mildew). Will it also prevent condensation from forming inside the vessel? I don’t know. But probably not. Hasn’t been an issue for us.

David

[Dunphyje]

David,
You mentioned mold and mildew…
You are right.. two separate issues, although they are often connected to each other..
Condensation alone just makes things wet.. like the outside of a cool glass on a summers day..
Mold needs moisture to survive and spread. So anywhere you have moisture (inside a leaking or humid boat or home shower) that can not evaporate you will get mold and mildew.
The best way to avoid this is to have both airflow and enough insulation to keep the warm humid side from the cold outside and prohibit condensation forming…
Many production boats were never insulated enough to stop the humidity..

UMA (the YouTube sailing couple) understood this issue well and insulated their boat in an easy, cost friendly and efficient way..

Here is a link to that video if any one is interested…

I plan to do the same.. except I think I will add outdoor carpet as a soft and sound absorbent finish..

John

John
S/V Mela

[typhoontye]

Thanks John. Looks like a nice solution for those guys. Our textured material gets mildew (not really mold). I hit it with bleach now and then and seems to control it. It’s never wet to the touch though. And where the material is used on the ceiling the mildew is just as bad or worse…even under a balsa sandwich deck. Keeping air moving in the boat helps a lot. I think the material in the boat now seems conducive to the mildew. It’s ‘rough’, and I think that gives some opportunity for mildew spores to take hold. When I remove it though, I’ll not reinstall anything for a while and monitor for moisture. Could be an insulating layer would help…

David

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