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As I am sitting here with the v-drive between me legs, stradling it’s home under the floor boards, I’m more and more liking the idea of unhooking it from the raw water cooling system. As it stands I’m pretty sure there’s no way I’ll ever get to enough clean metal to put on the marine-tex AND have bolt holes left to attach the cover. Part of me thinks leaving it open (not attaching the cover) and painting it with one of those corrosing bonding paints is the way to go. I think with it open it will be less likely to continue to corrode as it will dry out more and more over time the more air that circulates around it.
Just wanted to let you know I’m headed down this road. It’s relatively cool here compared to where most of you are so I think it’ll be fine.
-p
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Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
Where are you? Also, the drive can run at a temperature of 140 to 180 although the manual says 200 is ok, too, for a bit.
Frankly, I think the water thing is overrated due to the fact that these drives are generally put under much more strain than we can manage with our 50 – 60 hp engines. They're designed for 4-10 times as large… I'd keep track of temperature while running, change the oil frequently (more than the 500 hour time frame). Use a Radio Shack IR temperature gauge – like $20 or so.
Bob
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Bob Fine
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Pat
We exchanged numerous messages in the past few years about retrofitting the RV-20 with an alternate cooling system. A few folks have tried running it dry and report success. I can tell you that Walter has repeatedly stated that this won’t work. I can also vouch that the RV-26 in my boat runs warm even with cooling water yet the RV-20 ran cold. They are very similar in design and construction. The RV-26 has an oil-pump that circulates oil. Just pumping the oil around will warm it. I’m running a lot more torque through the new V-drive, but the new unit runs warm even at lower cruising speeds. It seems that something else is at work. In my opinion, you are on thin-ice if you run it dry. If you’ve come to the conclusion that your v-drive is past repair you have nothing to lose. If you put high-temperature alarm on it and are prepared to take action if it starts running hot I’d say go for it. In a pinch you could back-off the throttle or somehow hook up a hose from your fresh-water supply to cool it.At one point I drew up plans to mount a cooling jacket where the v-drive top-plate currently sits. My thought was that if the top of the v-drive stayed cool the rest of it wouldn’t get dangerously hot. The machinist never got back to me with a price. A bronze pipe brazed to a copper plate was all I wanted. I probably have the right tools to make it now, but I no longer need it since I replaced the v-drive. Bronze pipe is hard to find these days. I suppose one could use cast-iron and replace it every few years.
I still think these v-drives are junk, but don’t get me started on that again.
Regards
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“They’re designed for 4-10 times as large…” I don’t have my RV-26 manual handy, but I recall checking this when I repowered. They rate the v-drive differently for diesel engines vs gas engines. My 75hp Yanmar was within the power limit of the RV-26, but not by all that much. I think it is rated for something like 100hp diesel. I have no idea why they would drop the rating for diesel. One would think the HP rating for marine engines use the same formula for both. I no longer have my RV-20 manual so I can’t look it up, but one would think the RV-20 would of course be rated for less power.
Rich
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The different rating for gas and diesel carries on through all engines, not just marine. Horsepower is a speed rating (770 ft/lbs/sec) where torque is a measure of rotational power. Diesels, being slower turning, typically have lower horsepower but much higher torque than gasoline engines so a 100 hp gas engine isn't all that much where a 100hp diesel is a pretty significant engine. I've seen the 20 in gas powered boats with 200 hp. Gas engines spin faster than diesels.
I don't know about the 26 – it's newer and probably better (finer) engineered. Anyway, that's the reason for the difference in rating.
Bob
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Rich Carter < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:“They're designed for 4-10 times as large…” I don't have my RV-26 manual handy, but I recall checking this when I repowered. They rate the v-drive differently for diesel engines vs gas engines. My 75hp Yanmar was within the power limit of the RV-26, but not by all that much. I think it is rated for something like 100hp diesel. I have no idea why they would drop the rating for diesel. One would think the HP rating for marine engines use the same formula for both. I no longer have my RV-20 manual so I can't look it up, but one would think the RV-20 would of course be rated for less power.
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Patrick
I removed the raw water cooling from v-drive November 11 2007 and have not had any problems in the last two years. I did change to oil from 90W to 30W SAE and added a oil temp gauge I can read in the cockpit. I have not seen the temp of the unit above 130 D (checked by gauge & infrared tester). I did clean and epoxy the cooling chamber and keep the hoses onboard just incase. I also replace the drain plug with a pitcock drain so I can change the units oil with ease each fall.
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Hello all,
I have an 1981 RV-20, and it has develope an anoying sqeak. The sqeak came about around a year ago, and has progressively gotten worse. The sound seems to be coming from the internal u-joint. The drive was rebuilt about 10 years ago. There is plently of oil in the unit, and no traces of water contamination.
Has anyone else experienced this? Is this the beginning of the end?
Thanks,
Kevin Barber
S.V. Pan Dragon -
I have never taken mine apart, but you can try two things – one, put heavier
oil in the drive. They all take 30 weight oil, but mine had 90 weight gear
oil when I changed it.A u-joint that squeaks generally means that one or more of the needle
bearings have gone bad. If the internal one doesn’t use needle bearings but
uses sleeve bearings then one of those could be going bad. In either case,
at least the u-joint will need rebuilding/replacing.You may need to take it apart to see what’s going on, or send it back to
Walter for another rebuild.In fact, you could ask them directly – somewhere in this list is a whole
thread with the head of Walter…Bob
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
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The CV joints inside the V-drive are common automotive bearings with the
seals removed. You can remove the V-drive from your boat and replace these
bearings. As I recall, you must pull the output shaft to get at the input
shaft case bolts. A press is required for this and special tools are needed
for the nut at the end of the output shaft. One of the members has these
wrenches. I forgot who I gave them to. If you know a decent automotive
mechanic who has cheap rates, I recommend that you give it to him to replace
the bearings. Its just a wrench-job. No special skills required.Given the age of these units, I would advise against dropping a boat unit
into a rebuild. A replacement is expensive and there is no drop-in
available.Regards
RichQuote:
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Thanks so much for your replies,
How much play do you have in your v-drive?
I noticed a little play in the input shaft around the same time my squeak developed.
As i turn the jackshaft it seems to not ingage the v-drive right away. It will engage with a “thud”. It will not slip unless I reverse the rotation of the shaft.
I seem to remember it used to be smooth as silk.
Must be the CV joint.
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I don’t think there should be any noticeable play in the gearbox. It sounds
as if you may have thrown the roller bearings from one of the CV joints.
You probably have them deposited in the bottom pan of your gearbox but they
may work their way into the gears and from there pieces would work into the
rest of the bearings. I would suggest removing the bottom pan and cleaning
everything out as best you can. I may have used bearings kicking around
somewhere if you need them. I rebuilt my old V-drive many years ago and
replaced everything. In retrospect, I think there was nothing wrong with
the old bearings. I probably saved them in a box somewhere. They won’t fit
my RV-26.Rich
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I don’t think there’s a CV joint in the V-Drive. I think that the input
side is a double U-joint.The input is splined, it should offer some movement for and aft. I have a
copy of the V-Drive manual in a PDF if you need it.Chuck
On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Pan Dragon <> wrote:
Thanks so much for your replies,
Must be the CV joint.
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Rich,
I’m wondering what you’re recommending if not a rebuild and not a
replacement drive? Whether you have Walters do it or your friendly
mechanic, it still needs to be done or you have to get the replacement unit
and change the mountings to match. Or maybe I didn’t thoroughly understand
your response (which could easily be the case).Bob
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s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
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Bob
There is no cheap and easy way out of this. There is no logic in sending a
v-drive in for an expensive rebuild if the cases are shot. You can’t get
new cases. Cleaning the cooling jacket sufficiently to apply a marine-tex
patch is a terrible job and there are no guarantees. I had the same
decision to make and I tried the patch method and I rebuilt the thing
myself. I ended up replacing it however about 4 years later because the
RV-20 was not suitable for my new engine. The gear reduction was wrong. I
never trusted the patch anyway.If you can budget the cost of a new V-drive, that’s the way to go. You’ll
get at least 20 years of worry-free operation. Its not a drop-in and its
expensive. If you follow my notes and are reasonably handy, the replacement
is a stright-forward but tedious job. If you hire it out to have a yard do
it, I’d expect a bill for something like 20 to 30 hours of labor (times
their billing rate). Bolting steel angle iron to the existing V-drive pan
with nuts welded to the bottom worked very well for me.Rich
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Sometimes it is, sometimes it’s two curved faces like a section of a ball
with nubs around the perimeter that engage. Mostly you’ll find those on
front wheel drive cars.Bob
On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Rich Carter <> wrote:
Quote:Isn’t a CV joint a pair of coupled universals?
RichQuote:
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Thanks, Rich. I think my drive was rebuilt when my engine was changed some
1000 hours ago (I’ve put 500 hours on it in the last three years. Yikes!)Anyway, it seems to be good for now but when it starts spitting parts out,
I’ll rethink the whole thing.Bob
On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Rich Carter <> wrote:
Quote:Bob
There is no cheap and easy way out of this. There is no logic in sending a
v-drive in for an expensive rebuild if the cases are shot. You can’t get
new cases. Cleaning the cooling jacket sufficiently to apply a marine-tex
patch is a terrible job and there are no guarantees. I had the same
decision to make and I tried the patch method and I rebuilt the thing
myself. I ended up replacing it however about 4 years later because the
RV-20 was not suitable for my new engine. The gear reduction was wrong. I
never trusted the patch anyway.If you can budget the cost of a new V-drive, that’s the way to go. You’ll
get at least 20 years of worry-free operation. Its not a drop-in and its
expensive. If you follow my notes and are reasonably handy, the
replacement
is a stright-forward but tedious job. If you hire it out to have a yard do
it, I’d expect a bill for something like 20 to 30 hours of labor (times
their billing rate). Bolting steel angle iron to the existing V-drive pan
with nuts welded to the bottom worked very well for me.Rich
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Sucess! So far…
Changed the oil today and added 90 W gear lube instead of the 30W. Also put a healthy amount of grease on the Universal Joint (by the transmission) on the jackshaft. No more squeak!
I can’t be sure, but I have a feeling it was the external U-joint all along. It really sounded like it was coming from the V-drive itself. Sounds in the bilge are hard to pin down with a noisey diesel cranked up.
Everything is running nice and smoioth. There is still some play in the jackshaft, but I dont think I am going to worry much about it. That deafening squeak was my main worry.
Thanks so much for all the advice!
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The V-drive on Easy Reach began to leak just after we left Livingston, Guatemala in 1999. We turned about and re-entered Guate, much to the amusement of the port officer. There was no one around competent to work on the drive let alone get parts from New Jersey. A local mechanic suggested we replace the 30 wt oil in the drive with 90 wt, which we did. We got back to Chicago via the Hudson and Erie Canal and all the motoring that entailed without any trouble.
Â
A comment on having your yard or local mechanic “rebuild†-
Interestingly enough, I replaced my 90 wt gear lube with 30 wt oil per
manufacturer’s manual and although the thing whines now, it runs fine and
cool and doesn’t leak…I guess the next time I’ll put 90 wt back in.
Bob
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s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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Walter not only recommends 30W oil, they are very insistent that it is
non-detergent oil as well. Tricky to find…Pete
On 2/7/2010 7:55 PM, Rich Carter wrote:
Quote:Norris
Alignment on the hard is a waste of money, but you probably already know
that. Sounds like your yard took you for a ride.Rich
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Not at all – Rotella 30 wt heavy duty is as basic an oil as you can find.
The nice thing is that I could use it for the engine, transmission and
vdrive. I wonder if someone thought about that?Bob
On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Pete Dubler <> wrote:
Walter not only recommends 30W oil, they are very insistent that it is
non-detergent oil as well. Tricky to find…Pete
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
Follow me at: http://www.tinyurl.com/WhereIsBobFine
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Bob, you wrote, “. . . I could use it for the engine, transmission and vdrive.” The question is, do you use it for all three apps or are you just contemplating using it?
Lee
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I use it for engine and vee. My tranny takes type iii. It’s like
marmite, farina and sunoco 94. Acquired tastes.Adam Silverstein, iPhone
On Feb 8, 2010, at 8:44 AM, Lee Yonkers <> wrote:
Quote:Bob, you wrote, “. . . I could use it for the engine, transmission
and vdrive.” The question is, do you use it for all three apps or
are you just contemplating using it?Lee
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Great to know. Thanks!
On 2/8/2010 5:48 AM, Robert Fine wrote:
Not at all – Rotella 30 wt heavy duty is as basic an oil as you can find.
The nice thing is that I could use it for the engine, transmission and
vdrive. I wonder if someone thought about that?Bob
On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Pete Dubler<> wrote:
Walter not only recommends 30W oil, they are very insistent that it is
non-detergent oil as well. Tricky to find…Pete
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
Follow me at: http://www.tinyurl.com/WhereIsBobFine
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I just rebuilt my velvet drive (myself) and in reading the manuals noted
that there is a wide variety of oils that the v-drive can use, including
30wt.More recent manual states that multi-grade oils are not acceptable.The
first choice is SAE-API Class CD. Second is class CC. Also Allison
type C3 is recommended.So, interesting idea to run the same oil in all three elements of the
drive train.Pete
On 2/8/2010 7:04 AM, adam silverstein wrote:
Quote:I use it for engine and vee. My tranny takes type iii. It’s like
marmite, farina and sunoco 94. Acquired tastes.Adam Silverstein, iPhone
On Feb 8, 2010, at 8:44 AM, Lee Yonkers <> wrote:
Quote:Bob, you wrote, “. . . I could use it for the engine, transmission
and vdrive.” The question is, do you use it for all three apps or are
you just contemplating using it?Lee
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Hi Lee,
No, I didn’t have the time to flush the transmission twice to remove the
ATF. So that still has Dextron III in it. But all the manuals say all
three (three manuals) they can use 30 wt oil. So currently it’s in my
engine (naturally) and my v-drive.For the v-drive, though, 90 wt is much quieter. There’s a typical gear
whine with 30 wt. So I guess it’s a matter of choice. But the idea of only
one oil aboard is really appealing.You need to be sure you have a Velvet Drive before dumping 30 wt into it.
The other ones don’t use it, especially the Hurth.Bob
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 8:44 AM, Lee Yonkers <> wrote:
Bob, you wrote, “. . . I could use it for the engine, transmission and
vdrive.” The question is, do you use it for all three apps or are you just
contemplating using it?Lee
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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Comment on use of 90 wt oil in V-drive.
As I mentioned in my thread piece yesterday, we went from Livingston, Guatemala to Chicago with 90 wt oil in the the V-drive. When I told the clerk at Walter about that he did not think it was a good idea to use 90 wt and said I should keep using 30 wt. Of course, Walter has an incentive to urge me to bring the drive in for bench work to replace the lower seal and whatever else they might discover.
I’m encouraged by other V-drive owners using 90 wt.
Norris Larson on Easy Reach, 206— On Mon, 2/8/10, Robert Fine <> wrote:
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One of the many problems I’ve had with Morning Glory is the fact that I don’t know what kind of V-drive and transmission I have. The V-drive’s data plate is missing and I don’t know enough about transmissions to make an educated guess. I’ve asked some locals and I get different answers. If anyone has a surefire way to ID the tyranny I sure wold appreciate hearing about.
Lee
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Try contacting them direclty at and they can help you
identify it by the hole pattern of the cover plates and what not if you
send them a picture. That’s how I ID’d mine.
-p—-
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.com
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Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
Hi Lee,
There can be three transmissions on a Pearson installed engine. The easiest
to identify is the Hurth – it has a cubish ribbed case and is the only
transmission that looks like that.Another one is the Velvet Glide, like what I have, which has a dipstick on
the left side (facing the back of the engine towards the jack shaft. The
shift lever is vertical above the dip stick.The last one I’ve forgotten the manufacturer for, but I can find out by
digging through manuals I have here – it has a shift lever that is
horizontal on the top of the transmission.The first two, Hurth and Velvet Drive can be left in neutral to freewheel.
The Hurth can also be left in reverse to lock the prop (never forward). The
Velvet Drive can be left in neutral or forward to freewheel but never
reverse. The last one is not supposed to freewheel and was installed with a
shaft break I think, or wasn’t.Your V-drive is a Walters V-Drive and if it’s original it’s a model 20. If
it’s been replaced it would have been a 26 like Rich’s.There are others who can amplify this response…
Bob
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 8:40 PM, Lee Yonkers <> wrote:
One of the many problems I’ve had with Morning Glory is the fact that I
don’t know what kind of V-drive and transmission I have. The V-drive’s data
plate is missing and I don’t know enough about transmissions to make an
educated guess. I’ve asked some locals and I get different answers. If
anyone has a surefire way to ID the tyranny I sure wold appreciate hearing
about.Lee
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
Follow me at: http://www.tinyurl.com/WhereIsBobFine
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Paragon
Adam Silverstein, iPhone
On Feb 9, 2010, at 8:40 AM, Robert Fine <> wrote:
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That’s the one!
Thanks!
Bob
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s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
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Thanks Bob. I’ll take a look tomorrow morning and report back to you.
It is cold again. We thought we could have some snow flurries tonight but they didn’t appear. While we are making good progress, the weather keeps slowing us down. I’ll bet we had at least three inches of rain today. Tomorrow is supposed to be clear with a high in the low 50s.
Hope you are having a good time.
Lee
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