Electrical Panel

[Tor]

If this thread has moved to nav station panels, here’s an idea I’m trying out. I need a bunch of different breaker switch name labels than what’s on there now. I bought a package of assorted labels for that purpose from Port Supply, which fit and look nice of the boat’s original Marinetics panel, but there were a lot of labels in the pack that I didn’t need, and a bunch I did need that weren’t there. So I returned the package and bought a pack of Avery stick-on labels at Office Depot, the labels of a size that fit perfectly into the name spaces on the panel. Then I made up a template in MS Word, typed in the names I need on my particular panel, and printed that onto a blank Avery labels page. Finally, I laminated the entire sheet (face side only). When I’m ready – that is, when I get around to re-organizing the breaker switches in the panel into groupings that makes sense – I’ll cut out the labels with a scissors, peel off the backing, and stick them on the panel. With their faces protected by the clear lamination, I anticipate a satisfactory result.

Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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[Anonymous]

I used a label maker machine from Brother with white on black tape. It
looks great and I can write anything I want on the labels. These are
laminated and very durable. But I would still like to make a clean, new
panel one day.

Pete

Silver Heels wrote:

Quote:

If this thread has moved to nav station panels, here’s an idea I’m
trying out. I need a bunch of different breaker switch name labels
than what’s on there now. I bought a package of assorted labels for
that purpose from Port Supply, which fit and look nice of the boat’s
original Marinetics panel, but there were a lot of labels in the pack
that I didn’t need, and a bunch I did need that weren’t there. So I
returned the package and bought a pack of Avery stick-on labels at
Office Depot, the labels of a size that fit perfectly into the name
spaces on the panel. Then I made up a template in MS Word, typed in
the names I need on my particular panel, and printed that onto a blank
Avery labels page. Finally, I laminated the entire sheet (face side
only). When I’m ready – that is, when I get around to re-organizing
the breaker switches in the panel into groupings that makes sense
– I’ll cut out the labels with a scissors, peel off the backing, and
stick them on the panel. With their faces protected by the clear
lamination, I anticipate a satisfactory result.

Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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[madsailor]

Hi Pete,

I used the labelmaker as well, but since I had a dinghy load of black on white labels, I used that tape. Frankly, I find them easier to read in red light. In addition, I added a red LED to each 12 breaker so I could see at a glance what was on. Unfortunately, in 'Tool Time' moment, I ordered the LEDs from plasmaled.com. When I was moored 1/4 mile from the docks at City Island the launch drivers would use the red light out the port aft cabin light as a marker in the mooring field.

I probably, in hindsight, should have used just regular old LEDs. But I bought 50 of them for $50. The way it works out, if I have guests in the aft cabin I have to cover the power panel so they can sleep….

Bob

—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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[Anonymous]

Robert,

Try putting a few thousand ohm 1/4 watt resistor in series with the LED
to dim it. I would first try a 3K ohm. You could get fancy and tie all
the LED ground leads together and route that through a resistor with a
switch across it. Then you could have bright and dim settings. If you
do that, you may want to go to a higher wattage resistor.

Pete

Robert Fine wrote:

Hi Pete,

I used the labelmaker as well, but since I had a dinghy load of black
on white labels, I used that tape. Frankly, I find them easier to
read in red light. In addition, I added a red LED to each 12 breaker
so I could see at a glance what was on. Unfortunately, in ‘Tool Time’
moment, I ordered the LEDs from plasmaled.com
<http://plasmaled.com>. When I was moored 1/4 mile from the docks at
City Island the launch drivers would use the red light out the port
aft cabin light as a marker in the mooring field.

I probably, in hindsight, should have used just regular old LEDs. But
I bought 50 of them for $50. The way it works out, if I have guests
in the aft cabin I have to cover the power panel so they can sleep….

Bob

—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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[madsailor]

Hi Pete,

That's a terrific idea – they are all commonly grounded now! I hadn't thought about that. To be honest, I was thinking how to make the LEDs light when the circuit was in use – using a resistor in series with the load and using the voltage drop across that for the LED's light, but I'd have to replace the LEDs with something like 3 volt ones.

For your suggestion, I wonder if I could use a potentiometer for a variable dimmer? Like a dashboard on a car.

Bob

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 5:54 AM, Pete Dubler < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Robert,

Try putting a few thousand ohm 1/4 watt resistor in series with the LED to dim it. I would first try a 3K ohm. You could get fancy and tie all the LED ground leads together and route that through a resistor with a switch across it. Then you could have bright and dim settings. If you do that, you may want to go to a higher wattage resistor.

Pete

Robert Fine wrote:

Hi Pete,

I used the labelmaker as well, but since I had a dinghy load of black on white labels, I used that tape. Frankly, I find them easier to read in red light. In addition, I added a red LED to each 12 breaker so I could see at a glance what was on. Unfortunately, in 'Tool Time' moment, I ordered the LEDs from plasmaled.com <http://plasmaled.com>. When I was moored 1/4 mile from the docks at City Island the launch drivers would use the red light out the port aft cabin light as a marker in the mooring field.

I probably, in hindsight, should have used just regular old LEDs. But I bought 50 of them for $50. The way it works out, if I have guests in the aft cabin I have to cover the power panel so they can sleep….

Bob

—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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s/v Pelican
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[Anonymous]

Hard astern…
The LEDs you have must already have a resistor in line. By adding more
resistance, you can make them dimmer. A pot would be fine.

plus lead of LED to output of breaker. ground lead through extra
resistor then to ground.

(Do not try to put the LED and resistor in series with the load the
breaker is handling, if that is what you were suggesting).

Pete

Robert Fine wrote:

Hi Pete,

That’s a terrific idea – they are all commonly grounded now! I hadn’t
thought about that. To be honest, I was thinking how to make the LEDs
light when the circuit was in use – using a resistor in series with
the load and using the voltage drop across that for the LED’s light,
but I’d have to replace the LEDs with something like 3 volt ones.

For your suggestion, I wonder if I could use a potentiometer for a
variable dimmer? Like a dashboard on a car.

Bob

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 5:54 AM, Pete Dubler <
> wrote:

Robert,

Try putting a few thousand ohm 1/4 watt resistor in series with
the LED to dim it. I would first try a 3K ohm. You could get
fancy and tie all the LED ground leads together and route that
through a resistor with a switch across it. Then you could have
bright and dim settings. If you do that, you may want to go to a
higher wattage resistor.

Pete

Robert Fine wrote:

Hi Pete,

I used the labelmaker as well, but since I had a dinghy load
of black on white labels, I used that tape. Frankly, I find
them easier to read in red light. In addition, I added a red
LED to each 12 breaker so I could see at a glance what was on.
Unfortunately, in ‘Tool Time’ moment, I ordered the LEDs from
plasmaled.com <http://plasmaled.com> <http://plasmaled.com>.
When I was moored 1/4 mile from the docks at City Island the
launch drivers would use the red light out the port aft cabin
light as a marker in the mooring field.

I probably, in hindsight, should have used just regular old
LEDs. But I bought 50 of them for $50. The way it works out,
if I have guests in the aft cabin I have to cover the power
panel so they can sleep….

Bob

—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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s/v Pelican
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[madsailor]

Hi Pete,

Actually, they are already wired the way you mention – all I have to do is put a pot on the common ground.

But let's look at another problem, for instance, where you not only want to know when the breaker/switch is on, but you also want to know if the load is actually running as in navigation lights. On high-end yachts and cars, there is a monitor light for each light (the old Corvettes had a fiber optic connection to each bulb, believe it or not) that indicate not only they're on but they're functioning.

Here's what I was thinking: A large power resistor with a very low resistance, for instance 20 watt 1K ohm ceramic with an LED in parallel with the resistor, Not only would the light light but the LED would work as long as the light did, indeed, function.

Of course this depends on the light being less than 20 watts (1.8 amps) and the LED being low enough voltage to work and that there wasn't a dead short. Then the LED is going to be toast with the short. For my nav lights which are all LED this might work, except, of course, it might not. Basically, I'm using the voltage drop across a resistor for the led power.

There may be a better way (and I'm pretty sure there is) but with my limited electronics background it falls under the category of, “Hey, it should work…” Which, by the way, may not be all that far from, “Hey, guys! Watch this!”

Bob

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 2:58 PM, Pete Dubler < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Hard astern…
The LEDs you have must already have a resistor in line. By adding more resistance, you can make them dimmer. A pot would be fine.

plus lead of LED to output of breaker. ground lead through extra resistor then to ground.

(Do not try to put the LED and resistor in series with the load the breaker is handling, if that is what you were suggesting).

Pete

Robert Fine wrote:

Hi Pete,

That's a terrific idea – they are all commonly grounded now! I hadn't thought about that. To be honest, I was thinking how to make the LEDs light when the circuit was in use – using a resistor in series with the load and using the voltage drop across that for the LED's light, but I'd have to replace the LEDs with something like 3 volt ones.

For your suggestion, I wonder if I could use a potentiometer for a variable dimmer? Like a dashboard on a car.

Bob

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 5:54 AM, Pete Dubler < ([email][/email]) > wrote:

Robert,

Try putting a few thousand ohm 1/4 watt resistor in series with
the LED to dim it. I would first try a 3K ohm. You could get
fancy and tie all the LED ground leads together and route that
through a resistor with a switch across it. Then you could have
bright and dim settings. If you do that, you may want to go to a
higher wattage resistor.

Pete

Robert Fine wrote:

Hi Pete,

I used the labelmaker as well, but since I had a dinghy load
of black on white labels, I used that tape. Frankly, I find
them easier to read in red light. In addition, I added a red
LED to each 12 breaker so I could see at a glance what was on.
Unfortunately, in 'Tool Time' moment, I ordered the LEDs from

plasmaled.com <http://plasmaled.com> <http://plasmaled.com>. When I was moored 1/4 mile from the docks at City Island the
launch drivers would use the red light out the port aft cabin
light as a marker in the mooring field.

I probably, in hindsight, should have used just regular old
LEDs. But I bought 50 of them for $50. The way it works out,
if I have guests in the aft cabin I have to cover the power
panel so they can sleep….

Bob

— Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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s/v Pelican
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[Anonymous]

Could be a new way to heat your nav station…

Each LED has a forward voltage, Vf, and a current limit. Consider those
things in your design. I’d love to see what you come up with.

On the other side, there is a circuit that indicates when the bulb is
burned out. See http://pweb.jps.net/~lschaffer/navltcurrentsensors.html

By the way, I have their indicator lights on my panel and I love them.
Easy to see if you have the correct lights on.

Pete

Robert Fine wrote:

Hi Pete,

Actually, they are already wired the way you mention – all I have to
do is put a pot on the common ground.

But let’s look at another problem, for instance, where you not only
want to know when the breaker/switch is on, but you also want to know
if the load is actually running as in navigation lights. On high-end
yachts and cars, there is a monitor light for each light (the old
Corvettes had a fiber optic connection to each bulb, believe it or
not) that indicate not only they’re on but they’re functioning.

Here’s what I was thinking: A large power resistor with a very low
resistance, for instance 20 watt 1K ohm ceramic with an LED in
parallel with the resistor, Not only would the light light but the
LED would work as long as the light did, indeed, function.

Of course this depends on the light being less than 20 watts (1.8
amps) and the LED being low enough voltage to work and that there
wasn’t a dead short. Then the LED is going to be toast with the
short. For my nav lights which are all LED this might work, except,
of course, it might not. Basically, I’m using the voltage drop across
a resistor for the led power.

There may be a better way (and I’m pretty sure there is) but with my
limited electronics background it falls under the category of, “Hey,
it should work…” Which, by the way, may not be all that far from,
“Hey, guys! Watch this!”

Bob

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 2:58 PM, Pete Dubler <
> wrote:

Hard astern…
The LEDs you have must already have a resistor in line. By adding
more resistance, you can make them dimmer. A pot would be fine.

plus lead of LED to output of breaker. ground lead through extra
resistor then to ground.

(Do not try to put the LED and resistor in series with the load
the breaker is handling, if that is what you were suggesting).

Pete

Robert Fine wrote:

Hi Pete,

That’s a terrific idea – they are all commonly grounded now!
I hadn’t thought about that. To be honest, I was thinking
how to make the LEDs light when the circuit was in use – using
a resistor in series with the load and using the voltage drop
across that for the LED’s light, but I’d have to replace the
LEDs with something like 3 volt ones.

For your suggestion, I wonder if I could use a potentiometer
for a variable dimmer? Like a dashboard on a car.

Bob

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 5:54 AM, Pete Dubler
<
>>
wrote:

Robert,

Try putting a few thousand ohm 1/4 watt resistor in series with
the LED to dim it. I would first try a 3K ohm. You could get
fancy and tie all the LED ground leads together and route that
through a resistor with a switch across it. Then you could
have
bright and dim settings. If you do that, you may want to
go to a
higher wattage resistor.

Pete

Robert Fine wrote:

Hi Pete,

I used the labelmaker as well, but since I had a dinghy
load
of black on white labels, I used that tape. Frankly, I
find
them easier to read in red light. In addition, I added
a red
LED to each 12 breaker so I could see at a glance what
was on.
Unfortunately, in ‘Tool Time’ moment, I ordered the
LEDs from
plasmaled.com <http://plasmaled.com>
<http://plasmaled.com> <http://plasmaled.com>. When I
was moored 1/4 mile from the docks at City Island the

launch drivers would use the red light out the port aft
cabin
light as a marker in the mooring field.

I probably, in hindsight, should have used just regular old
LEDs. But I bought 50 of them for $50. The way it
works out,
if I have guests in the aft cabin I have to cover the power
panel so they can sleep….

Bob

— Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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[madsailor]

See Pete? I knew you'd show me something new – that's exactly what I'm trying to do – sense current. I suppose I should have looked that up as someone else since the discovery of electricity probably wanted to sense current as well.

I wonder if they will sense current as low as a couple 10ths of an amp as my nav lights don't draw more than that (all LED).

Anyway, this may require more thought…

Thanks!

Bob

—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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[Tor]

Forgive my old-fashioned simplicity, Bob, but why not just poke your head out of a hatch and look at the lights themselves. If a bulb is burned out you’ll know it because it won’t be lit even though the light is turned on.

Or am I missing something more profound (which would not be so unusual for me)?

Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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[madsailor]

Ah, Tor, my friend, looking out at the lights would be easy. Too easy. If you are going to have an indicator light, it should do as much as possible – it should encode information that may or may not be gleaned elsewhere or in an easier manner.

You're right, of course – I'm getting carried away here. I will just dim the lights with a resistor. There are enough real problems for me to deal with on Pelican.

Thanks, Tor, for bringing me back to reality, such as it is.

Bob

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 6:05 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Quote:

Forgive my old-fashioned simplicity, Bob, but why not just poke your head out of a hatch and look at the lights themselves. If a bulb is burned out you'll know it because it won't be lit even though the light is turned on.

Or am I missing something more profound (which would not be so unusual for me)?

Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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[Anonymous]

These do not sense LED level currents unfortunately, but what you really
need this for is to know that your incandescent bulb has burned out.

Pete

Robert Fine wrote:

See Pete? I knew you’d show me something new – that’s exactly what I’m
trying to do – sense current. I suppose I should have looked that up
as someone else since the discovery of electricity probably wanted to
sense current as well.

I wonder if they will sense current as low as a couple 10ths of an amp
as my nav lights don’t draw more than that (all LED).

Anyway, this may require more thought…

Thanks!

Bob

—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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[madsailor]

Hi Pete, I know the won't sense the LED levels. But as Tor so kindly and gently pointed out, I could just look up…

Bob

On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Pete Dubler < ([email][/email])> wrote:

These do not sense LED level currents unfortunately, but what you really need this for is to know that your incandescent bulb has burned out.

Pete

Robert Fine wrote:

See Pete? I knew you'd show me something new – that's exactly what I'm trying to do – sense current. I suppose I should have looked that up as someone else since the discovery of electricity probably wanted to sense current as well.
I wonder if they will sense current as low as a couple 10ths of an amp as my nav lights don't draw more than that (all LED).

Anyway, this may require more thought…

Thanks!

Bob

—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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[Tor]

Ah, for gleaning encoded information I have my Flash Gordon secret decoder ring. It only cost two cereal box tops and a quarter when I got it and it has never failed me. To this day I can always tell when the lights are off.

🙂
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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[Anonymous]

I’ve had incandescent bulbs in nav lights fail on passage and always
wondered how long they were out before I noticed. LED nav lights are a
relief in that regard.

Tor is right of course. Like the old pilot saying goes… “when
everything else fails…. fly the plane”.

Pete

Robert Fine wrote:

Hi Pete, I know the won’t sense the LED levels. But as Tor so kindly
and gently pointed out, I could just look up…

Bob

On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Pete Dubler <
> wrote:

These do not sense LED level currents unfortunately, but what you
really need this for is to know that your incandescent bulb has
burned out.

Pete

Robert Fine wrote:

See Pete? I knew you’d show me something new – that’s exactly
what I’m trying to do – sense current. I suppose I should
have looked that up as someone else since the discovery of
electricity probably wanted to sense current as well.
I wonder if they will sense current as low as a couple 10ths
of an amp as my nav lights don’t draw more than that (all LED).

Anyway, this may require more thought…

Thanks!

Bob

—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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[Anonymous]

Hi All

Really enjoy being in the pearson424 loop.

Please change my email address to () and remove ().

We have a blog http://sailblogs.com/member/mariposa216/

I sold my charter business of 16yrs and headed off on a 2-3 yr cruise 14 Oct..

Interesting being with LOOPERS going down the Illinois, Mississippi, Ohio, Tennessee & TenTom Waterway to Mobile. Got mast stepped there (Turners) and on to Penscola, Panama City, Clearwater (the Gulf can really get nasty in a passing front) and presently in St Petersburg while other half finishes requirements for USCG license (done today) Plan to go on to Long Boat Key, Charlotte Harbor, Marathon, Key West and Yuctan Mexico and on.

Still need to upgrade SSB radio – have very old ICOM IC700. Shirley & I both working on HAM licenses and will probable go for a new ICOM 803 comb Marine/HAM rig. Need advice and input on this.

Seasons greetings to all

Capt John & Shirley
n a message dated 12/20/2008 11:06:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, writes:

I’ve had incandescent bulbs in nav lights fail on passage and always
wondered how long they were out before I noticed. LED nav lights are a
relief in that regard.

Tor is right of course. Like the old pilot saying goes… “when
everything else fails…. fly the plane”.

Pete

Robert Fine wrote:

Hi Pete, I know the won’t sense the LED levels. But as Tor so kindly
and gently pointed out, I could just look up…

Bob

On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Pete Dubler <
> wrote:

These do not sense LED level currents unfortunately, but what you
really need this for is to know that your incandescent bulb has
burned out.

Pete

Robert Fine wrote:

See Pete? I knew you’d show me something new – that’s exactly
what I’m trying to do – sense current. I suppose I should
have looked that up as someone else since the discovery of
electricity probably wanted to sense current as well.
I wonder if they will sense current as low as a couple 10ths
of an amp as my nav lights don’t draw more than that (all LED).

Anyway, this may require more thought…

Thanks!

Bob

—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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