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Given the discussion a few months ago on electric motors, a Nonsuch just
pulled into the slip next to me here in Oriental which has an electric
motor. I was going ask to get some details on their installation, but they
confided that they motor at 3.5 kts. If that engine can only produce 3.5
kts on a Nonsuch 36 I don’t think it would be very effective on a P424.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com
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I have spoken to the folks at Annapolis Hybrid Marine, the US Thoosa dealer. They are installing a system on a 44′ cruiser and will be publishing the test results when done. I plan to stop by their booth at the St Pete boat show in Dec to get an update on the project and will post the what I learn.
Their website
http://www.annapolishybridmarine.com/electric_boat_motors.cfm
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Let us know when you will be arriving. We have Bel Esprit II at the St. Petersburg Municipal Marina which is right in front of the show. We will be on the boat that weekend. Maybe we can get together for a cold one.
Ted Riley & Elaine Patton-Riley
Bel Esprit II
727-430-0457________________________________
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@Ted & Elaine wrote:
Let us know when you will be arriving. We have Bel Esprit II at the St. Petersburg Municipal Marina which is right in front of the show. We will be on the boat that weekend. Maybe we can get together for a cold one.
Ted Riley & Elaine Patton-Riley
Bel Esprit II
727-430-0457________________________________
Thank you for the invite. Current plans to come one day on the weekend. Will come by and say hello.
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I took a look at the website link below. I’m unimpressed. They appear to sell an electric-motor unit, but don’t appear to have a power source. Their largest unit at 12kw is too small for the 424. My current diesel is a 53kw Yanmar. I’d be unhappy cruising at 5kts. What kind of battery bank would I need to cruise a minimum of 8 hrs even with regenerative charging, 10,000 AH? If they had a larger unit and a power source, this might interest me. I can see using something like this thing if I had a generator onboard. The generator could provide household power needs and when underway provide a power source to the electric drive. There is recent work on fuel-cells that might eventually be workable in a boat. Unless it uses diesel as its fuel source, it would be a PIA to fuel. I can’t see installing a propane tank large enough to meet my cruising range needs and gasoline is out of the question. Maybe some day…
Rich
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Hi Rich,
Looked at the Thoosa data and came up with all the same questions and concerns you mention, especially no power source. The concern about the 12 KW max power is partially answered by noting that the motor’s 12KW rating is continuous but 24 KW intermittent.
Since, in my case, most of the long range powering will be motor sailing with only partial engine power or motoring in a calm when it takes much less HP to mover the boat at hull speed so I could live with a lower continuous rating as long as I had the short term power for docking, getting out of a tight spot, etc.
But still 12KW/24KW is on the low side.
Also still does not address the range issue. It is impossible to put enough battery capacity in a boat to motor more than a few hours, even at very low speed so a generator is necessary. If you size the gennie to match the electric motor you are looking at min 12 KW gennie, a large and very expensive machine.
So, as far as I can tell, electric power is just not yet ready for prime time but I still find it interesting and will keep watching developments in the technology.
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Someone here said they saw a boat in Oriental the other day that had an electric motor.
Was it a Nonsuch that had a broken mast?
If it was, I know Roy, The boat name is YUMSUCH. He was a dock mate of mine back on Lake Ontario. He’s made this trip from Rochester on Lake Ontario, up though the St Lawernce Seaway to the Canadian Maritimes down the East Coast to Oriental with that Electric Motor.
So it can be done.
Alan— On Fri, 11/18/11, skipmac wrote:
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I did not mean to imply that electric power would not work at all. I have read about a number of cruising boats that are running electric and have made major ocean crossings including significant distances under power.
But any system I have found that comes close to equivalent power to my W58 plus a generator to put out enough power to run it continuously, costs 2-3 times the price of a new diesel engine, transmission and V-drive together.
The more affordable systems I have found have much less power and often just enough range to motor out the channel.
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Alan,
That’s the boat. Still next to me in Oriental, which means I’m still in
Oriental and will be to after Thanksgiving.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comOn Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 11:10 PM, skipmac wrote:
I did not mean to imply that electric power would not work at all. I have
read about a number of cruising boats that are running electric and have
made major ocean crossings including significant distances under power.But any system I have found that comes close to equivalent power to my W58
plus a generator to put out enough power to run it continuously, costs 2-3
times the price of a new diesel engine, transmission and V-drive together.The more affordable systems I have found have much less power and often
just enough range to motor out the channel._______________________________________________
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Sure electrical powered propulsion works well. The largest cruising
ships all use is. It is just a matter of scaling correctly and
economically.On 11/18/2011 9:10 PM, skipmac wrote:
I did not mean to imply that electric power would not work at all. I have read about a number of cruising boats that are running electric and have made major ocean crossings including significant distances under power.
But any system I have found that comes close to equivalent power to my W58 plus a generator to put out enough power to run it continuously, costs 2-3 times the price of a new diesel engine, transmission and V-drive together.
The more affordable systems I have found have much less power and often just enough range to motor out the channel.
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OK, went to the St Pete boat show and had a long talk with the US Reps for ASMO Marine, makers of the Thoosa electric power systems. The US distributor is Annapolis Hybrid Marine but I spoke mostly with Charlie Johnson of JTB Marine in St Pete who I believe is the FL agent.
Some information, thoughts and comments, in no particular order.
The hardware looked first class, at least from the outside. They didn’t offer to let me take one apart 🙂 so couldn’t tell about the inside of the motor or controllers but the mounts, machining, cabling, everything I could see looked very well made. Unless I have missed one I think the Thoosa system looks like the best and highest powered unit on the market at this time.
They have installed a 12 KW DC system on a 43′ Hylas which is on the way down the ditch from Annapolis. This installation was something of a test bed and there should be some reports back from the owner on how the system worked on his boat. Should be a good comparison for the 424.
If you use the conversion of 1 HP = 0.735 KW, 58 HP = 42.63 KW. If you allow for parasitic loads on the diesel, water pump, alternator, friction, etc, depending on whose estimates you use you will lose several HP in the system so conservatively say you have 45 HP at the shaft. That would equal about 33 KW but the largest motor in the current line is the 12 KW. Charlie stated that due to the higher torque at low rpm compared to a diesel which doesn’t produce full power until the peak rpm power band, a real world conversion would be 0.5 KW per HP. That would still call for a 22.5 KW electric motor to produce the estimated 45 HP at the prop shaft from the venerable Westerbeke. There is a higher power AC version coming out that I think he said would be 24 KW which, at least on paper sounds more like what it would take. In my opinion the 424/422 hull is not exactly overpowered with the W58 or W60 and I have my doubts that a 12 KW electric motor would give anything close to the performance of the W58.
Now, the bottom line. If you’re interested you better bring your big wallet. Pretty much matches my previous research that indicates electric costs 2-3 times more than diesel. The 12 KW DC motor with controller, throttle, cabling and key is about $15K. A Polar diesel DC generator to power the system (necessary if you want to go more that a couple of hours under power or can’t carry a ton or more in batteries) is another $15K. I haven’t gotten an exact quote but I think you could buy a new Beta or Yanmar, transmission and V-drive for something in the neighborhood of $15K.
For me the answer is still a diesel. If you want clean and quiet and mainly motor from the slip to the channel then an electric system might be the ticket. Or if you are a long distance cruiser but never motor long distances (if the Pardey’s can do it) then electric might work. Electric might be ready for the trip down the ICW (if you have deep pockets) but I think I’ll wait for some performance data before I make that statement.
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