Engine shutting down

[howard]

Hey, we have just purchased a Pearson 422. So far we love the boat. we are having a problem with the engine shutting down after about 30 min run time. it will start back up and run but shut down again. It seems to be a fuel problem. the lift pump is new(i know new parts can be bad) but what i would like to know if anyone has looked into the fuel shut off valve, where is it on this engine. the wiring is not up to par and will be repaired but you know how long that takes to track it all down. Looking at my manuals the fuel pump is powered thru the shut off valve am i correct? it will be another month before i can get back to this and would love as many suggestions as possibe. It is the Westerbeke 58. Thanks all
Howard

[Chuck Ruble]

Howard, do you have a vacuum gauge on the fuel feed? This might be located next to the racor filter. This will tell you if the engine is starved for fuel. Either that or you have an air leak allowing air into the fuel. You'll need a hand held vacuum pump with gauge to isolate that.

The fuel cut off solenoid is probably on top of the tank at the pickup and can be manually set to 'on' with the small screw on the front. Turn it 90 degrees. This likely isn't your problem.

Some other thoughts not to be confused with orderly troubleshooting….

Have you tried replacing the fuel filters? I had a fouled tank and after two hours of run time the boat would exhibit the similar symptoms. If replacing the primary filter (the one closest to the fuel source) gets you running again then you have dirty fuel, assuming you have a primary filter. The secondary (the one on the engine) should be changed at the same time if you are uncertain of the condition.

Pull some fuel off the bottom of the tank, you can do this by removing the gauge. You might find water, sediment and other treats you'll need to figure out how to deal with.

Chuck

On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 9:18 AM, howard < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Hey, we have just purchased a Pearson 422. So far we love the boat. we are having a problem with the engine shutting down after about 30 min run time. it will start back up and run but shut down again. It seems to be a fuel problem. the lift pump is new(i know new parts can be bad) but what i would like to know if anyone has looked into the fuel shut off valve, where is it on this engine. the wiring is not up to par and will be repaired but you know how long that takes to track it all down. Looking at my manuals the fuel pump is powered thru the shut off valve am i correct? it will be another month before i can get back to this and would love as many suggestions as possibe. It is the Westerbeke 58. Thanks all
Howard

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[Adam Silverstein]

Re: 424 site engine guru C. Ruble’s sage advise; if this vessel has been sitting around waiting for you to come along and love her, there may well be old, gnarly contaminated fuel in the tanks, and the PO’s last racor/secondary filter change may have been a while ago. before undertaking herculean effort, have a peek with gimlet eye at those filters. given the totality of your tale, its the most likely source of this trouble. PS: did she run fine on sea trial, and then did you take her out & bounce her around a bit, shaking up all the chunks?

-adam silverstein
s/v phantom corsair
(uncontested divorces and fuel polishing, 1/2 price off – this week only!)

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[RichCarter]

It sounds like your engine is starved for fuel. If it were sucking air into the lines, it would be hard to start.

My 424 came with an electronic solenoid shutoff valve located on the top of the tank. The engine exhibited similar problems until the valve was removed.

another problem that can cause the same symptom is a clogged fuel system. Dirty filters or sediment collecting in the lines or the bottom of the tank can cause fuel starvation.

A weak lift pump can also cause the same problem. If its the lift pump, your engine will behave fine with the tank full, but starve for fuel when the tank level gets low. If it is a lift pump issue, put in an electric fuel pump.

—
Rich Carter

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[Adam Silverstein]

Seeing as I have more than one engine guru to ask, I’d also like to try to
clarify something:

A member of my stalwart (but overenthusiastic) crew broke my manual lift
pump while bleeding lines. I have a little electric pump I use only
occasionally for my patented “wife suffocator” diesel heater. Can I sub the
electric pump for a manual lift pump? I could install an on/off toggle
switch and route a fuel line off a tee and back to the secondary
engine-mounted fuel filter. I guess it would either make bleeding the
diesel much easier or create a massive flood of fuel, pop seals, gaskets,
etc. Please advise.

-Adam “there are no dumb questions” Silverstein

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[howard]

it ran fine on the sea trial.
the fuel has been polished and the tanks cleaned with new filters.
I cannot fine the electric fuel shutoff. i know it has one or you couldnt shut off the engine with just the key.is it on top of the highpressure pump?
i am trying to look at all the easy stuff first. if you have to have 12 volts to the shutoff for it to open, or how does it work.
i plan to eliminate one thing at the time and will post results.
tahnks

[RichCarter]

Adam
You can put an electric fuel pump in series with the manual lift pump and wire it to the engine key. No need for additional switches or valves. This has the additional benefit of making bleeding the injectors much easier. $42.80 including shipping. You’ll need to purchase brass hose barbs.

http://www.amazon.com/Airtex-E8012S-Electric-Fuel-Pump/dp/B000DT7Y7A

—
Rich Carter

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[RichCarter]

Howard
I believe you said that you have a W58. I don’t believe that your engine has a fuel shutoff solenoid actuator. I think the stock W58 has a shutoff cable. Someone might have installed a shutoff solenoid actuator and removed the cable. When you turn your key off, what turns the fuel off to the high pressure pump? Try turning the key on and off while looking at the fuel pump on the side of the engine. Something has to move. Send a photo if you can.

424’s came with an electonic fuel valve at the top of the tank. This is not the same thing as a solenoid actuator. Does your fuel tank have an electric fuel valve on the top of the tank? There would be two wires running to it.

Rich

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[madsailor]

Hi Rich,

The W58 must have a solenoid shutoff because there's no cable anywhere. The engine panel for it doesn't have a place for it. I've never studied the thing, but when you turn the key off it turns off the solenoid at the top of the tank (which I've removed) and somewhere in the rusty innards of the engine it turns off the fuel.

Bob

On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 5:49 PM, Rich Carter < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Quote:

Howard
I believe you said that you have a W58. I don't believe that your engine has a fuel shutoff solenoid actuator. I think the stock W58 has a shutoff cable. Someone might have installed a shutoff solenoid actuator and removed the cable. When you turn your key off, what turns the fuel off to the high pressure pump? Try turning the key on and off while looking at the fuel pump on the side of the engine. Something has to move. Send a photo if you can.

424's came with an electonic fuel valve at the top of the tank. This is not the same thing as a solenoid actuator. Does your fuel tank have an electric fuel valve on the top of the tank? There would be two wires running to it.

Rich

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[howard]

I do not have a cable to shut down the engine. i also dont have the fuel shut off on the tanks. i was thinking that when you turned the key off it turned off the fuel pump, but then on my other boat with a 25xp you could turn off the fuel pump and the engine would continue to run. after reading my manuals it appears to have a fuel shutoff valve somewhere. i would be a couple of weeks before i get back to this. time and distance. thanks for anymore insite you can give.
howard

[Anonymous]

Howard,
My Westerbeke 60 had a similar issue with intermittent stalling. I had the fuel polished, installed a twin Racor filter, replaced fuel lines and connectors, put ports in the tank and had it steam cleaned. Still, she stalled out at odd times.
The best solution I found was to install a 12v in-line fuel pump. This guarantees fuel to the system which I think relies too heavily on the mechanical pump. The new pump goes on with the ignition switch giving the fuel system fuel pressure before starting the engine. I also installed a shut off switch in case a leak should occur. The fuel has a long way to travel from tank to injectors. The electric pump insures constant flow and peace of mind.
The results are that I have a smoother running engine with no stalling. So my advise is start with the fuel pump and see if any other issues arise.
I will take a photo of my install over the weekend and shoot it off to you.
Happy Sailing,
Bill
SV Running Tab
424 #86

Edit One Productions, Inc.
2310 Clement Avenue
Alameda, CA 94501

Studio 510-814-9519
Fax 510-814-6945
Cell 415-279-1340

— On Wed, 11/5/08, howard <> wrote:

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[howard]

I found the problem. it was somewhere in the wireing that powers the fuel shut off silanoid. i just replaced the wire and the problem went away. the old wireing had been butchered anyway.

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