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On Easy Reach we count slowly to eight, let go of the plug switch, and immediately turn the key. Starts up right away. If its cold, we count to ten.
Norris Larson, #203
— On Wed, 4/8/09, Robert Fine <> wrote:
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I always count to ten, but on our boat you have to keep the plug button depressed while turning the key or it won’t turn over. They must have changed the interlock in later boats. Perhaps I could get by with less “button push” as it rarely approaches the mid sixties here.
Dan Kalinowski
Lady Leanne (#135)
Honolulu -
So, How do you know you blown out your glow plugs? And can they ALL go out?
On 4/21/09 1:16 PM, norris larson wrote :
Quote:On Easy Reach we count slowly to eight, let go of the plug switch, and immediately turn the key. Starts up right away. If its cold, we count to ten.Norris Larson, #203
— On Wed, 4/8/09, Robert Fine <> wrote:
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Hi Aaron,
The only way you could burn out all four glow plugs would be to lose power through the solenoid or cut the conductor that runs along the top or they have been failing regularly and the last has finally given up the ghost.
Check there's voltage to them – easiest way? When you press the 'preheat' button voltage will drop visibly on the voltmeter.
It turns out that we all seem to have different engine control panels. If you have two buttons and a key, then you need to hold the preheat button while pressing the start button – the key is just an 'on-off' switch. There is nothing, however, to rewiring those switches so that the key can start the motor, just like a car.
Westerbeke may have made different models of the engine panel between the switch from the W60 to the W58 and on. I know my engine isn't original – Pelican being hull 8 came with a W60 and my engine beds don't look anything like the ones everyone complains about.
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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They are easy to test. Remove the wire from the end and put an ohm-meter on the terminal. You should read something like 1 ohm or less. If its an open circuit, you need to replace it. Another way to test them is to touch them after running them for a few seconds. The good plugs will be warm. Glow plugs are service items. This only works if the engine is cold however. They go bad after a few years. I have no idea why.
When my W60 was relatively new, it usually started with little or no time on the glow plugs. The last few years I owned the engine, it became difficult to start; taking as long as 30 seconds with the glow-plugs to start. My Yanmar has no glow plugs. I don’t miss them.
Regards
Rich
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Disconnect the wire and measure the resistance across the glow plug to
ground. If the resistance is infinite, it is burned out.And yes, all four can go out… that’s what happened to me.
Pete
Aaron Lynch wrote:
Quote:So, How do you know you blown out your glow plugs? And can they ALL go
out?On 4/21/09 1:16 PM, norris larson wrote :
On /Easy Reach/ we count slowly to eight, let go of the plug
switch, and immediately turn the key. Starts up right away. If its
cold, we count to ten.Norris Larson, #203
— On *Wed, 4/8/09, Robert Fine /<>/* wrote:
<.. snip>
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Not really Bob… Each of the glow plugs can burn out until you have
none that are good. Again, that is what happened to me.Pete
Robert Fine wrote:
Hi Aaron,
The only way you could burn out all four glow plugs would be to lose
power through the solenoid or cut the conductor that runs along the
top or they have been failing regularly and the last has finally given
up the ghost.Check there’s voltage to them – easiest way? When you press the
‘preheat’ button voltage will drop visibly on the voltmeter.It turns out that we all seem to have different engine control
panels. If you have two buttons and a key, then you need to hold the
preheat button while pressing the start button – the key is just an
‘on-off’ switch. There is nothing, however, to rewiring those
switches so that the key can start the motor, just like a car.Westerbeke may have made different models of the engine panel between
the switch from the W60 to the W58 and on. I know my engine isn’t
original – Pelican being hull 8 came with a W60 and my engine beds
don’t look anything like the ones everyone complains about.Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8
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Hi Pete,
I mentioned that – the symptom would be needing to hold them on longer and longer until the engine just wouldn't start. By the same token, you could notice that by the amount of voltage drop when you press the button.
Bob
On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Pete Dubler < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Not really Bob… Each of the glow plugs can burn out until you have none that are good. Again, that is what happened to me.
Pete
Robert Fine wrote:
Hi Aaron,
The only way you could burn out all four glow plugs would be to lose power through the solenoid or cut the conductor that runs along the top or they have been failing regularly and the last has finally given up the ghost.
Check there's voltage to them – easiest way? When you press the 'preheat' button voltage will drop visibly on the voltmeter.
It turns out that we all seem to have different engine control panels. If you have two buttons and a key, then you need to hold the preheat button while pressing the start button – the key is just an 'on-off' switch. There is nothing, however, to rewiring those switches so that the key can start the motor, just like a car.
Westerbeke may have made different models of the engine panel between the switch from the W60 to the W58 and on. I know my engine isn't original – Pelican being hull 8 came with a W60 and my engine beds don't look anything like the ones everyone complains about.
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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As I remember, my boat had the glow-plugs wired directly to a pushbutton switch next to the fuel shutoff lever in the cockpit. The switch proved unreliable due to the high load presented by the glow-plugs. I installed a solenoid switch on the engine next to the glow-plugs and used the pushbutton to actuate the solenoid switch. This worked much better. I bought the relay at a local RV supply store. It is normally used to connect a camper battery to the tow-vehicle charge system when the camper is towed. It was under $30. I used the same relays for my anchor windlass when they needed replacement. I also used one to replace a similar relay on my refrigeration system. The solenoid switches are inexpensive and work reliably, but they’re not marine 😉
Rich
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On the W60 there's a small electrical panel that supports the starter connections and the oil pressure sensor. On it are two circuit breakers a 10 and a 40 amp. One's for the preheat and the other is for the starter. You might check and see if either requires a reset.
ChuckOn Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 8:14 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi Aaron,
The only way you could burn out all four glow plugs would be to lose power……
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OK, so basically all of the plugs have 100% resistance (no continuity)
In addition, one of them is broken off at the base, so now I gotta borrow a bore scope and have a look see at the piston.Ahhh, this is the life this Yachting thing *
Where do you get replacement glow plugs? I’ve looked online and can;t seem to find a simple order form anywhere. Does Champion still make them (ag-50)
* Re fancy schmancy Yachting… Yesterday I worked the pumpout boat and got sprayed in the face. Neat!
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re: glowplugs:
http://www.tadiesels.com/~~~ ~ (_~~ (_~ ~ ~ fair winds ~ ~ (_
Capt Bill Tice, aboard s/v CHARISMA
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Aaron, do you have a W60? If so the glow plug doesn't extend all the way to the cylinder. It is in a chamber in the head. This toroidal chamber is where the fuel and air mix, British Leyand called it the Ricardo Comet design. If you have a W58 not sure what that head looks like. Either way the configuration on these engines is of an 'interference type', there's no major clearance (about the thickness of a business card) in there when the piston is at TDC.
You think it broke when you removed it? Is the broken end clean metal or sooty? If it's sooty then it's probably been broke for a while, the part may still be in the chamber. Move that piston to TDC before you start probing around. A q-tip with a glob of Vaseline might latch onto it an coax it out. If the break is clean exposed metal, a head gasket is cheap compared to a piston assembly (which you'll need access to the bottom of the engine to replace).
Sorry for the great news.
I've got a W60 head in the shed, I've never really inspected this chamber. If that's what you got let me know, I'll see if it looks like something that size could be sitting in there with out making it's way into the cylinder.
Finally, if you do remove the head (which is surprisingly easy on the W60), I understand the shop in Gloucester (I think Mid Atlantic) has rebuilt W60 heads in stock, will take yours in trade and send you a new unit with fresh valves, seats and guides, but any engine shop worth it's salt could do the same. The W60 manual provides the valve angles/dimensions. The head weighs about 60/75 pounds.
Chuck
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Aaron Lynch < ([email][/email])> wrote:
OK, so basically all of the plugs have 100% resistance (no continuity)
In addition, one of them is broken off at the base, so now I gotta borrow a bore scope and have a look see at the piston.Ahhh, this is the life this Yachting thing *
Where do you get replacement glow plugs? I’ve looked online and can;t seem to find a simple order form anywhere. Does Champion still make them (ag-50)
* Re fancy schmancy Yachting… Yesterday I worked the pumpout boat and got sprayed in the face. Neat!
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In a message dated 4/27/2009 10:13:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, writes:
the shop in Gloucester (I think Mid Atlantic)
that’s TRANS ATLANTIC DIESEL, again,
http://www.tadiesels.com/~~~ ~ (_~~ (_~ ~ ~ fair winds ~ ~ (_
Capt Bill Tice, aboard s/v CHARISMA
A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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The plug looks like it’s burnt off. We have a borescope at my work, so I’ll poke around with that and see if I can se anything.
I really don’t wanna put ANOTHER grand into this motor on stupid trivial stuff like this. I’m into it 4 grand already and I still have a tired old motor. 🙁
TAD hasn’t got back to me, any idea what sort of damage I’m looking at for 4 plugs?
On 4/27/09 7:13 AM, Chuck Ruble wrote :
Aaron, do you have a W60? If so the glow plug doesn’t extend all the way to the cylinder. It is in a chamber in the head. This toroidal chamber is where the fuel and air mix, British Leyand called it the Ricardo Comet design. If you have a W58 not sure what that head looks like. Either way the configuration on these engines is of an ‘interference type’, there’s no major clearance (about the thickness of a business card) in there when the piston is at TDC.
You think it broke when you removed it? Is the broken end clean metal or sooty? If it’s sooty then it’s probably been broke for a while, the part may still be in the chamber. Move that piston to TDC before you start probing around. A q-tip with a glob of Vaseline might latch onto it an coax it out. If the break is clean exposed metal, a head gasket is cheap compared to a piston assembly (which you’ll need access to the bottom of the engine to replace).
Sorry for the great news.
I’ve got a W60 head in the shed, I’ve never really inspected this chamber. If that’s what you got let me know, I’ll see if it looks like something that size could be sitting in there with out making it’s way into the cylinder.
Finally, if you do remove the head (which is surprisingly easy on the W60), I understand the shop in Gloucester (I think Mid Atlantic) has rebuilt W60 heads in stock, will take yours in trade and send you a new unit with fresh valves, seats and guides, but any engine shop worth it’s salt could do the same. The W60 manual provides the valve angles/dimensions. The head weighs about 60/75 pounds.
Chuck
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Aaron Lynch <> wrote:
OK, so basically all of the plugs have 100% resistance (no continuity)
In addition, one of them is broken off at the base, so now I gotta borrow a bore scope and have a look see at the piston.Ahhh, this is the life this Yachting thing *
Where do you get replacement glow plugs? I’ve looked online and can;t seem to find a simple order form anywhere. Does Champion still make them (ag-50)
* Re fancy schmancy Yachting… Yesterday I worked the pumpout boat and got sprayed in the face. Neat!
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Aaron,
At Marine Diesel Direct Glow plug for W60 #14529 $78.34 ea.
Dave
Doris E. #178Aaron Lynch wrote:
Re: Engine Starting Glowplug Time The plug looks like it’s burnt off. We have a borescope at my work, so I’ll poke around with that and see if I can se anything.
I really don’t wanna put ANOTHER grand into this motor on stupid trivial stuff like this. I’m into it 4 grand already and I still have a tired old motor. 🙁
TAD hasn’t got back to me, any idea what sort of damage I’m looking at for 4 plugs?
On 4/27/09 7:13 AM, Chuck Ruble wrote :
Aaron, do you have a W60? If so the glow plug doesn’t extend all the way to the cylinder. It is in a chamber in the head. This toroidal chamber is where the fuel and air mix, British Leyand called it the Ricardo Comet design. If you have a W58 not sure what that head looks like. Either way the configuration on these engines is of an ‘interference type’, there’s no major clearance (about the thickness of a business card) in there when the piston is at TDC.
You think it broke when you removed it? Is the broken end clean metal or sooty? If it’s sooty then it’s probably been broke for a while, the part may still be in the chamber. Move that piston to TDC before you start probing around. A q-tip with a glob of Vaseline might latch onto it an coax it out. If the break is clean exposed metal, a head gasket is cheap compared to a piston assembly (which you’ll need access to the bottom of the engine to replace).Sorry for the great news.
I’ve got a W60 head in the shed, I’ve never really inspected this chamber. If that’s what you got let me know, I’ll see if it looks like something that size could be sitting in there with out making it’s way into the cylinder.
Finally, if you do remove the head (which is surprisingly easy on the W60), I understand the shop in Gloucester (I think Mid Atlantic) has rebuilt W60 heads in stock, will take yours in trade and send you a new unit with fresh valves, seats and guides, but any engine shop worth it’s salt could do the same. The W60 manual provides the valve angles/dimensions. The head weighs about 60/75 pounds.
Chuck
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Aaron Lynch <> () wrote:
OK, so basically all of the plugs have 100% resistance (no continuity)
In addition, one of them is broken off at the base, so now I gotta borrow a bore scope and have a look see at the piston.Ahhh, this is the life this Yachting thing *
Where do you get replacement glow plugs? I’ve looked online and can;t seem to find a simple order form anywhere. Does Champion still make them (ag-50)
* Re fancy schmancy Yachting… Yesterday I worked the pumpout boat and got sprayed in the face. Neat!
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As I remember, the W60 took a generic diesel glow-plug, figure $50 ea.
You’re at the point I was three years ago. I kept throwing money at the old engine. Parts were getting ridiculously expensive and it wasn’t running all that well. At some point you have to cut your losses. Once you start replacing stuff it can get very expensive however. Its hard to stop until everything is replaced. One thing leads to another and before you know it the bill just for parts is out of sight.
Good luck
Rich
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Well, today I went to install my new $325 glow plugs.
The good news is I discovered the broken one did not go into the cylinder.
The bad news is the broken one seems to be in the glow plug chamber, and it seems to be flush and pretty well corroded in, so I cant retrieve it with tweezers or the like.
So I’m guessing I have to take the head off right? Unless someone has a easier trick? Any gotchas to taking the head off a w60?
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all the way in? a magnet? Shop vac & duct tape? piece of flexible plastic with gum on it?
On May 2, 2009, at 6:16 PM, Aaron Lynch wrote:Well, today I went to install my new $325 glow plugs.
The good news is I discovered the broken one did not go into the cylinder.
The bad news is the broken one seems to be in the glow plug chamber, and it seems to be flush and pretty well corroded in, so I cant retrieve it with tweezers or the like.
So I’m guessing I have to take the head off right? Unless someone has a easier trick? Any gotchas to taking the head off a w60?
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Here’s something I’d try. I’d mix a little 5 minute epoxy. I’d clean
the chamber with starting fluid (make sure you have reallty good
ventilation) and let it dry. Don’t worry about getting it in the
engine. Then, using a skewer I’d put a little blob on the end and
stick it into the hole. Not too much and make sure you don’t get epoxy
on the sides. Hold the skewer in place until the epoxy sets.When it is totally set, carefully pull the piece out. If it works,
you’re golden. If not, you are no worse off as you have to pull the
head anyway.Incidentally, pulling a head is easy. Putting it back is the hard part…
Bob
On 5/2/09, adam silverstein <> wrote:
all the way in? a magnet? Shop vac & duct tape? piece of flexible
plastic with gum on it?On May 2, 2009, at 6:16 PM, Aaron Lynch wrote:
Well, today I went to install my new $325 glow plugs.
The good news is I discovered the broken one did not go into the
cylinder.The bad news is the broken one seems to be in the glow plug
chamber, and it seems to be flush and pretty well corroded in, so I
cant retrieve it with tweezers or the like.So I’m guessing I have to take the head off right? Unless someone
has a easier trick? Any gotchas to taking the head off a w60?—
Sent from my mobile deviceBob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8
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Success!
I was reading online about guys using compressed air, where can I get compressed ai…. Compressed, compression…. Hmmm.
First I tried just cranking it. Nada.Then I pulled the injector, I though maybe I could get to the other side of the plug tip, but there was no way.
Then as I was starting to drain the cooling system (step 1 of the remove the head instructions) it dawned on me that even with no compression in that cylinder it should at least ‘try’ to start.
So I bled the system, cranked it, it started to ‘catch’ like one or two revolutions and then one real good ‘bang’ and the tip shot out 🙂 I was hoping it’d stick in the bunk for a nice picture but no such luck. Made a tiny dent and sprayed sooty diesel all over the wood but I still Kaint find the goldern tip
The engine’s running like a top though!
Thanks for all the suggestions and encouragement, I realize that my methods are totally mickey mouse… But I feel like mighty mouse anyway 🙂
On 5/2/09 3:20 PM, adam silverstein wrote :
all the way in? a magnet? Shop vac & duct tape? piece of flexible plastic with gum on it?
On May 2, 2009, at 6:16 PM, Aaron Lynch wrote:
Well, today I went to install my new $325 glow plugs.
The good news is I discovered the broken one did not go into the cylinder.
The bad news is the broken one seems to be in the glow plug chamber, and it seems to be flush and pretty well corroded in, so I cant retrieve it with tweezers or the like.
So I’m guessing I have to take the head off right? Unless someone has a easier trick? Any gotchas to taking the head off a w60?
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