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Aloha to All
Thank you for the advice, i am getting closer to the problem. it has to be on the coolant or fresh water side. I am suspecting that the fresh water pump may be bad but… is there a good check to make sure. i am not sure which hose to pull to make sure the pump is actually pumping coolant thru the system.
symptom: after i fill the engine with coolant and run it for a while, put it under a load, cap off and shut it down it spits out coolant, does not appear to be cycling coolant thru the system or coolant appears to be backed up and then overflows after the engine heats up.
i am thinking that it may be the pump, i see on line that these fresh water pumps can be re built, is that the best way to go?
I have not pulled the pump or checked the hoses that go to and from the pump yet, just wanted to see if a hose can be removed to check flow on the outlet side of the pump, but not sure.
thank you in advance for the help, you guys are great!
S/V Island Muse #217
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Overheating like this sounds like the fresh water pump as you have
surmised. Although, it could also be a stuck closed thermostat which will
prevent flow. I assume you have good flow out the exhaust?I’m not sure if the W58’s pump can be rebuilt. You may have to bite the
bullet on that one. Disconnecting the water heater circulation hoses will
serve to splatter antifreeze all over the place to see if it’s working.
Other than that, I don’t know if there are any other fresh water coolant
hosing. All my rubber hosing is raw water.Usually, when a fresh water pump goes, though, it weeps through the little
hole, but not always. If you remove the pump, you will certainly see if it’s
bad enough to stop pumping. They work right up until they don’t.In my experience, I’ve had two fresh water pumps fail, so for all you
doubters (“What? I’ve never heard of that!”), they do. Two different boats,
two different engines.Good luck James!
Bob
On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 12:51 AM, james bartch <
wrote:
Aloha to All
Thank you for the advice, i am getting closer to the problem. it has to
be on the coolant or fresh water side. I am suspecting that the fresh water
pump may be bad but… is there a good check to make sure. i am not sure
which hose to pull to make sure the pump is actually pumping coolant thru
the system.symptom: after i fill the engine with coolant and run it for a while, put
it under a load, cap off and shut it down it spits out coolant, does not
appear to be cycling coolant thru the system or coolant appears to be backed
up and then overflows after the engine heats up.i am thinking that it may be the pump, i see on line that these fresh water
pumps can be re built, is that the best way to go?I have not pulled the pump or checked the hoses that go to and from the
pump yet, just wanted to see if a hose can be removed to check flow on the
outlet side of the pump, but not sure.thank you in advance for the help, you guys are great!
S/V Island Muse #217
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
Follow me at: http://www.tinyurl.com/WhereIsBobFine
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Just a silly but impt note. When I bought my boat it started to overheat,
and air lock. The problem could not be found. No less than 4 people were
paid to look at it and did nothing to solve the problem. Finally I climbed
all around the back of the engine (which means in our case the front – but
which is in the back) and discovered a 5 inch metal tube and rubber hose
assembly that had started to crack and fail, and rust below. It is only 5 or
6 inches long, it is at the top of the engine all the way in the back, and
it is the most difficult to inspect.
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James
The thermostat is the cheapest and the easiest so that’s where I start, being cheap and lazy. I hope it’s not the pump, not cheap or easy. Mine even had holes rusted in the top from what looked like salt spray from a leaky raw water pump over many years when I bought the boat. There wasn’t much left of the outer case of the pump but it was enough to keep it going. If you have hoses that go to the hot water heater disconecting the return line and putting it in a bucket will let you know how much flow you have or just check if you have hot water at a sink would be easier I guess.
Linus
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The sea water pump on the W58 is really too small for the engine. Mine
was replaced with a larger Sherwood pump on a stainless steel bracket
with a large aluminum pulley. Moved a good bit more water. I still
have that whole outfit, including a spare pump, left over from my
re-power, if you are interested in going that way.Rebuilding water pumps is really quite easy. The seals are removed, the
bearings pressed out (a socket and hammer works in the stead of a
press), the shaft polished up a bit with very fine emery paper, the
wedge and o-rings replaced, and you basically have a new pump. The
rebuild kits come in two or three degrees, depending on your pump. The
largest kit includes a new shaft. Call Depco for the kit or shop around
for it online. Or just get the bearings and seals (plus O-rings) at
your local bearing store and order the wedge from Depco. Buying a new
pump is a waste of money when rebuilding is so easy.Hope this helps.
Pete
On 4/27/2010 10:51 PM, james bartch wrote:
Aloha to All
Thank you for the advice, i am getting closer to the problem. it has to be on the coolant or fresh water side. I am suspecting that the fresh water pump may be bad but… is there a good check to make sure. i am not sure which hose to pull to make sure the pump is actually pumping coolant thru the system.
symptom: after i fill the engine with coolant and run it for a while, put it under a load, cap off and shut it down it spits out coolant, does not appear to be cycling coolant thru the system or coolant appears to be backed up and then overflows after the engine heats up.
i am thinking that it may be the pump, i see on line that these fresh water pumps can be re built, is that the best way to go?
I have not pulled the pump or checked the hoses that go to and from the pump yet, just wanted to see if a hose can be removed to check flow on the outlet side of the pump, but not sure.
thank you in advance for the help, you guys are great!
S/V Island Muse #217
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Oh, yes, the coolant system will always overflow coolant when the engine
heats up due to thermal expansion. The overflow tank catches that
expansion and the fluid flows back to the engine (actually sucked back
by the resultant vacuum) as the engine cools. Without a proper overflow
tank, the expanded fluid is lost and then the next time the engine is
started cold, it is low on fluid. (I was once on a charter boat that
did not have an overflow tank and the procedure was to add about a pint
of water to the engine every morning…Pete
On 4/28/2010 7:38 AM, sumocean wrote:
James
The thermostat is the cheapest and the easiest so that’s where I start, being cheap and lazy. I hope it’s not the pump, not cheap or easy. Mine even had holes rusted in the top from what looked like salt spray from a leaky raw water pump over many years when I bought the boat. There wasn’t much left of the outer case of the pump but it was enough to keep it going. If you have hoses that go to the hot water heater disconecting the return line and putting it in a bucket will let you know how much flow you have or just check if you have hot water at a sink would be easier I guess.
Linus
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I guess I’m still a skeptic on the fresh water pump being the culprit. I’m
certainly no expert, but I believe the things that normally can fail are the
seals and the bearings, both of which produce external symptoms – leaks in
the case of the seals, or noise and vibration in the case of the bearings.
BTW, does the engine overheat without putting it under load?On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Pete Dubler <> wrote:
The sea water pump on the W58 is really too small for the engine. Mine
was replaced with a larger Sherwood pump on a stainless steel bracket with a
large aluminum pulley. Moved a good bit more water. I still have that
whole outfit, including a spare pump, left over from my re-power, if you are
interested in going that way.Rebuilding water pumps is really quite easy. The seals are removed, the
bearings pressed out (a socket and hammer works in the stead of a press),
the shaft polished up a bit with very fine emery paper, the wedge and
o-rings replaced, and you basically have a new pump. The rebuild kits come
in two or three degrees, depending on your pump. The largest kit includes a
new shaft. Call Depco for the kit or shop around for it online. Or just
get the bearings and seals (plus O-rings) at your local bearing store and
order the wedge from Depco. Buying a new pump is a waste of money when
rebuilding is so easy.Hope this helps.
Pete
On 4/27/2010 10:51 PM, james bartch wrote:
Aloha to All
Thank you for the advice, i am getting closer to the problem. it has to
be on the coolant or fresh water side. I am suspecting that the fresh water
pump may be bad but… is there a good check to make sure. i am not sure
which hose to pull to make sure the pump is actually pumping coolant thru
the system.symptom: after i fill the engine with coolant and run it for a while, put
it under a load, cap off and shut it down it spits out coolant, does not
appear to be cycling coolant thru the system or coolant appears to be backed
up and then overflows after the engine heats up.i am thinking that it may be the pump, i see on line that these fresh
water pumps can be re built, is that the best way to go?I have not pulled the pump or checked the hoses that go to and from the
pump yet, just wanted to see if a hose can be removed to check flow on the
outlet side of the pump, but not sure.thank you in advance for the help, you guys are great!
S/V Island Muse #217
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Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com
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If your engine overheats, steam should come out of the water heater pressure release. In fact, you should be able to temporarily cool your engine by dumping hot-water down the sink drain. If your fresh water doesn’t start to boil, there’s something wrong with the flow through the heat-exchanger.
Rich
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The W-60 needs to pump even more water or it will overheat. Westerbeke’s original installation instructions for the W-60 advise diverting some of the cooling water directly overboard to prevent overflooding seawater into the exhaust. If you increase the size of the seawater pump beyond what was spec’d by Westerbeke, you should be cautious to avoid the same problem.
Rich
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I haveba W58 with the spec’ed R30G pump. Have not had an over heat problem. Well, if you discount the broken belt or disintegrated impeller.
Cruising at around 2000 RPM (90 % of the time) the temp maintains at around 160. At around 2400 it’s a steady 185-190.
Not sure what circumstances would require a larger pump?
alan– On Wed, 4/28/10, <> wrote:
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James-
It is likely that you have a circulation problem in the fresh water circuit. Here is an exploded diagram of the assembly.
http://www.marinedieseldirect.com/catalogs/catalog_group.php?owner=mdd&page_ident=24577-222-223&model=W58 Propulsion / 20 KW Generator&manufacturer=Westerbeke&title=Fresh Water Cooling- From March 1981&quant_position=&catalog=24577&printparts=&printservice=&printoperators=&comment1=The thermostat on the W-58 has a disk on the bottom that seats on the lower thermostat housing when the thermostat opens. If this fails, coolant will simply recirculate through the engine and never go to the heat exchanger. Westerbeke built these engines with a combination of iron and aluminum parts. If your PO didn’t keep fresh antifreeze in the engine, it might be pretty well gummed up, esp. around the thermostat housings and the fresh water pump.
I suggest that you carefully remove the upper thermostat housing, check that the t-stat works, and is the right kind. The early upper housings are aluminum, replacements are cast iron. I ended up replacing both upper and lower housings.
If you remove the lower housing, then you can also replace the short hose leading to the fresh water pump housing which is probably original. You can also then check that the t-stat base disk seats properly.
I agree that pump failure usually is characterized by seal and bearing failure, but if the cooling system is corroded, the blades may be worn away on the pump rotor. This was the case on our W-58 #2, which lives in our garage. The last part is to clean out the gunk from the fresh water side of the heat exchanger.
The parts were not cheap, but the overheat problems we had, similar to yours, were cured.
Quent Kinderman
Clairebuoyant, #132 -
That makes me think about checking the radiator cap. It must be holding
pressure for the cooling system to function correctly in that the
pressure prevents to pre-mature boiling of the coolant (and why
radiators boil over when you remove the cap from a hot engine). Take
the cap to a auto parts store and let them test it.Pete
On 4/28/2010 11:34 AM, wrote:
Quote:If your engine overheats, steam should come out of the water heater pressure release. In fact, you should be able to temporarily cool your engine by dumping hot-water down the sink drain. If your fresh water doesn’t start to boil, there’s something wrong with the flow through the heat-exchanger.Rich
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How do you split the output of the water so some does not go through the
lift muffler?I know about splitting it after the muffler, as is done with gensets to
release the water below waterline for noise reasons, but not how to do
this ahead of the muffler.Pete
On 4/28/2010 11:37 AM, wrote:
Quote:The W-60 needs to pump even more water or it will overheat. Westerbeke’s original installation instructions for the W-60 advise diverting some of the cooling water directly overboard to prevent overflooding seawater into the exhaust. If you increase the size of the seawater pump beyond what was spec’d by Westerbeke, you should be cautious to avoid the same problem.Rich
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Peter
According to the Westerbeke manual for the W60, where the raw water leaves the cooling jacket you run it through a ‘Y’ pipe and divert part of the flow overboard. Pearson didn’t do this. The W-60 had to literally pump like a fire-engine hose to keep the engine cool. I guess it worked OK the way Pearson installed the engine because the W-60 proved to be a very reliable engine. It also made hot water faster than I could use it, something I sorely miss with my new Yanmar. At idle, the 6-gal water tank would heat after about 30 minutes. If I left the engine running, we’d never run out of hot water.
Original Message
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Ahh, of course… split it before the injection elbow…. I was, for
some reason, thinking you meant to split it after that, which I did not
understand.Speaking of all this, what are folks using for lift mufflers these
days? The Vernalift 2″ in/out units are all rated at 25HP max. That
seems strange since my new 50HP and my old 58HP both have 2″ exhaust.On 4/29/2010 8:39 AM, wrote:
Peter
According to the Westerbeke manual for the W60, where the raw water leaves the cooling jacket you run it through a ‘Y’ pipe and divert part of the flow overboard. Pearson didn’t do this. The W-60 had to literally pump like a fire-engine hose to keep the engine cool. I guess it worked OK the way Pearson installed the engine because the W-60 proved to be a very reliable engine. It also made hot water faster than I could use it, something I sorely miss with my new Yanmar. At idle, the 6-gal water tank would heat after about 30 minutes. If I left the engine running, we’d never run out of hot water._______________________________________________
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