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Has anyone experienced this situation and have recommendations?
Eclipse (#73) was repowered by the PO in 1999 with a Westerbeke 63C.
Last season I did not seem to have this issue. It appears to have developed this season.
The engine start battery, an 8D, was replaced early this season because it was old and got to the point it wouldn't start the engine cold or hot. I replaced the 8D with a Group 27.When the engine is cool it cranks quickly and starts quickly.
When the engine is hot (engine has been run for a while, turned off) the start battery really really struggles to turn the engine over (it cannot turn the engine over fast enough to start)… I have to combine my house bank with the start battery to get it started.(I use a Balmar MaxCharge 612 to charge the house bank and a Balmar Duo Charge to keep the engine start battery charged.)
Do I just not have a big enough start battery?
Is the starter suffering from some heat related disorder?
ThanksRick
EclipsePost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Rick,
I assume that during the time the engine is cooling down your are back in your slip and the battery charger is charging the start battery.
If that is the case I would look at the Duo Charge system you are using to charge the start battery when the engine is running. I'm not familiar with this system, but it may be similar to the battery combiner I use on Sarah. Mine is wired the opposite of what you appear to have. The combiner connects the house battery to the alternator output once the start battery is above 13.3VDC. The original combiner on Sarah failed in 2006 on a passage from Lagos, PT to Gibraltar. The result was all the navigation instruments and lights went out in the middle of the night. Similar to what you do for your start battery I manually combined the batteries which restored power to the instruments and allowed the alternator to recharge the house battery.So it is possible the Duo Charge system has failed and is not providing sufficient charge to the start battery. A quick test would be to check the voltage of the start battery after the engine has been running for a few minutes. If the start battery is being charged the voltage should be 14VDC or more.
A fully charged Group 27 should be adequate to start the engine. I'm temporarily using a Group 27 to start my Yanmar engine with no problems.
John
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Rick Dugger < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Has anyone experienced this situation and have recommendations?
Eclipse (#73) was repowered by the PO in 1999 with a Westerbeke 63C.
Last season I did not seem to have this issue. It appears to have developed this season.
The engine start battery, an 8D, was replaced early this season because it was old and got to the point it wouldn't start the engine cold or hot. I replaced the 8D with a Group 27.When the engine is cool it cranks quickly and starts quickly.
When the engine is hot (engine has been run for a while, turned off) the start battery really really struggles to turn the engine over (it cannot turn the engine over fast enough to start)… I have to combine my house bank with the start battery to get it started.(I use a Balmar MaxCharge 612 to charge the house bank and a Balmar Duo Charge to keep the engine start battery charged.)
Do I just not have a big enough start battery?
Is the starter suffering from some heat related disorder?
ThanksRick
Eclipse—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Rick, there are several reasons a group 27 won't start the engine, especially if it did last year – one, it's low on water or was at some point, two, the engine is running hot and you don't know it yet, and three, the engine is still 'tight' from being new. That's the least likely. I use a group 31 for my start battery on a W58. But if you have a charging system that expects a fancy battery (like AGMs ) and you're running flooded batteries you may be cooking the group 27. It will show up as bad long before the big 8Ds show up the problem.
Hope that helps…
Bob
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 7:02 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Rick,
I assume that during the time the engine is cooling down your are back in your slip and the battery charger is charging the start battery.
If that is the case I would look at the Duo Charge system you are using to charge the start battery when the engine is running. I'm not familiar with this system, but it may be similar to the battery combiner I use on Sarah. Mine is wired the opposite of what you appear to have. The combiner connects the house battery to the alternator output once the start battery is above 13.3VDC. The original combiner on Sarah failed in 2006 on a passage from Lagos, PT to Gibraltar. The result was all the navigation instruments and lights went out in the middle of the night. Similar to what you do for your start battery I manually combined the batteries which restored power to the instruments and allowed the alternator to recharge the house battery.So it is possible the Duo Charge system has failed and is not providing sufficient charge to the start battery. A quick test would be to check the voltage of the start battery after the engine has been running for a few minutes. If the start battery is being charged the voltage should be 14VDC or more.
A fully charged Group 27 should be adequate to start the engine. I'm temporarily using a Group 27 to start my Yanmar engine with no problems.
John
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Rick Dugger < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Has anyone experienced this situation and have recommendations?
Eclipse (#73) was repowered by the PO in 1999 with a Westerbeke 63C.
Last season I did not seem to have this issue. It appears to have developed this season.
The engine start battery, an 8D, was replaced early this season because it was old and got to the point it wouldn't start the engine cold or hot. I replaced the 8D with a Group 27.When the engine is cool it cranks quickly and starts quickly.
When the engine is hot (engine has been run for a while, turned off) the start battery really really struggles to turn the engine over (it cannot turn the engine over fast enough to start)… I have to combine my house bank with the start battery to get it started.(I use a Balmar MaxCharge 612 to charge the house bank and a Balmar Duo Charge to keep the engine start battery charged.)
Do I just not have a big enough start battery?
Is the starter suffering from some heat related disorder?
ThanksRick
Eclipse—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kiddingPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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John
The engine can be cooling just from sailing or anchoring…
I haven't yet but will check the voltage at the start battery when the Duo Charge sees that the House Bank is charging and above a threshold voltage either from 110 battery charger or engine/alternator.
Thanks.
RickOn Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 7:02 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Rick,
I assume that during the time the engine is cooling down your are back in your slip and the battery charger is charging the start battery.
If that is the case I would look at the Duo Charge system you are using to charge the start battery when the engine is running. I'm not familiar with this system, but it may be similar to the battery combiner I use on Sarah. Mine is wired the opposite of what you appear to have. The combiner connects the house battery to the alternator output once the start battery is above 13.3VDC. The original combiner on Sarah failed in 2006 on a passage from Lagos, PT to Gibraltar. The result was all the navigation instruments and lights went out in the middle of the night. Similar to what you do for your start battery I manually combined the batteries which restored power to the instruments and allowed the alternator to recharge the house battery.So it is possible the Duo Charge system has failed and is not providing sufficient charge to the start battery. A quick test would be to check the voltage of the start battery after the engine has been running for a few minutes. If the start battery is being charged the voltage should be 14VDC or more.
A fully charged Group 27 should be adequate to start the engine. I'm temporarily using a Group 27 to start my Yanmar engine with no problems.
John
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Rick Dugger < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Has anyone experienced this situation and have recommendations?
Eclipse (#73) was repowered by the PO in 1999 with a Westerbeke 63C.
Last season I did not seem to have this issue. It appears to have developed this season.
The engine start battery, an 8D, was replaced early this season because it was old and got to the point it wouldn't start the engine cold or hot. I replaced the 8D with a Group 27.When the engine is cool it cranks quickly and starts quickly.
When the engine is hot (engine has been run for a while, turned off) the start battery really really struggles to turn the engine over (it cannot turn the engine over fast enough to start)… I have to combine my house bank with the start battery to get it started.(I use a Balmar MaxCharge 612 to charge the house bank and a Balmar Duo Charge to keep the engine start battery charged.)
Do I just not have a big enough start battery?
Is the starter suffering from some heat related disorder?
ThanksRick
Eclipse—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Bob,
Last season the 8D was working with the engine cool or hot, although it progressively became sluggish at cranking a hot engine. The 8D finally gave up the ghost back in June of this year and I replaced it with the group 27. It had difficulty starting a hot engine from the get go. It starts it fine when the engine is cool.
All of my house bank batteries are of the 6V wet cell variety and the starting Group 27 is a 12v wet cell.
Thanks
RickOn Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Rick, there are several reasons a group 27 won't start the engine, especially if it did last year – one, it's low on water or was at some point, two, the engine is running hot and you don't know it yet, and three, the engine is still 'tight' from being new. That's the least likely. I use a group 31 for my start battery on a W58. But if you have a charging system that expects a fancy battery (like AGMs ) and you're running flooded batteries you may be cooking the group 27. It will show up as bad long before the big 8Ds show up the problem.
Hope that helps…
Bob
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 7:02 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Rick,
I assume that during the time the engine is cooling down your are back in your slip and the battery charger is charging the start battery.
If that is the case I would look at the Duo Charge system you are using to charge the start battery when the engine is running. I'm not familiar with this system, but it may be similar to the battery combiner I use on Sarah. Mine is wired the opposite of what you appear to have. The combiner connects the house battery to the alternator output once the start battery is above 13.3VDC. The original combiner on Sarah failed in 2006 on a passage from Lagos, PT to Gibraltar. The result was all the navigation instruments and lights went out in the middle of the night. Similar to what you do for your start battery I manually combined the batteries which restored power to the instruments and allowed the alternator to recharge the house battery.So it is possible the Duo Charge system has failed and is not providing sufficient charge to the start battery. A quick test would be to check the voltage of the start battery after the engine has been running for a few minutes. If the start battery is being charged the voltage should be 14VDC or more.
A fully charged Group 27 should be adequate to start the engine. I'm temporarily using a Group 27 to start my Yanmar engine with no problems.
John
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Rick Dugger < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Has anyone experienced this situation and have recommendations?
Eclipse (#73) was repowered by the PO in 1999 with a Westerbeke 63C.
Last season I did not seem to have this issue. It appears to have developed this season.
The engine start battery, an 8D, was replaced early this season because it was old and got to the point it wouldn't start the engine cold or hot. I replaced the 8D with a Group 27.When the engine is cool it cranks quickly and starts quickly.
When the engine is hot (engine has been run for a while, turned off) the start battery really really struggles to turn the engine over (it cannot turn the engine over fast enough to start)… I have to combine my house bank with the start battery to get it started.(I use a Balmar MaxCharge 612 to charge the house bank and a Balmar Duo Charge to keep the engine start battery charged.)
Do I just not have a big enough start battery?
Is the starter suffering from some heat related disorder?
ThanksRick
Eclipse—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kiddingPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Hi Rick,
Let me think about that. It could be that the engine is, indeed, running hot and needs to cool down before it's easy to start. It could also be that the starter motor's bearings are going bad so that it requires higher starting currents when hot. You can purchase a really inexpensive infra-red thermometer from Radio Shack that you just point and press a button to get the temp -it works from like -100 to + 500 or something ridiculous. The starter shouldn't get much warmer than the engine block, especially if it's disengaged. The engine block should get to around 180-200 degrees anywhere you point. The transmission might get warmer. But everything should be well below 250 degrees.
Be careful as 140 degrees is scalding. It does sound temperature related.
Bob
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 6:23 PM, Rick Dugger < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Bob,
Last season the 8D was working with the engine cool or hot, although it progressively became sluggish at cranking a hot engine. The 8D finally gave up the ghost back in June of this year and I replaced it with the group 27. It had difficulty starting a hot engine from the get go. It starts it fine when the engine is cool.
All of my house bank batteries are of the 6V wet cell variety and the starting Group 27 is a 12v wet cell.
Thanks
RickOn Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Rick, there are several reasons a group 27 won't start the engine, especially if it did last year – one, it's low on water or was at some point, two, the engine is running hot and you don't know it yet, and three, the engine is still 'tight' from being new. That's the least likely. I use a group 31 for my start battery on a W58. But if you have a charging system that expects a fancy battery (like AGMs ) and you're running flooded batteries you may be cooking the group 27. It will show up as bad long before the big 8Ds show up the problem.
Hope that helps…
Bob
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 7:02 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Rick,
I assume that during the time the engine is cooling down your are back in your slip and the battery charger is charging the start battery.
If that is the case I would look at the Duo Charge system you are using to charge the start battery when the engine is running. I'm not familiar with this system, but it may be similar to the battery combiner I use on Sarah. Mine is wired the opposite of what you appear to have. The combiner connects the house battery to the alternator output once the start battery is above 13.3VDC. The original combiner on Sarah failed in 2006 on a passage from Lagos, PT to Gibraltar. The result was all the navigation instruments and lights went out in the middle of the night. Similar to what you do for your start battery I manually combined the batteries which restored power to the instruments and allowed the alternator to recharge the house battery.So it is possible the Duo Charge system has failed and is not providing sufficient charge to the start battery. A quick test would be to check the voltage of the start battery after the engine has been running for a few minutes. If the start battery is being charged the voltage should be 14VDC or more.
A fully charged Group 27 should be adequate to start the engine. I'm temporarily using a Group 27 to start my Yanmar engine with no problems.
John
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Rick Dugger < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Has anyone experienced this situation and have recommendations?
Eclipse (#73) was repowered by the PO in 1999 with a Westerbeke 63C.
Last season I did not seem to have this issue. It appears to have developed this season.
The engine start battery, an 8D, was replaced early this season because it was old and got to the point it wouldn't start the engine cold or hot. I replaced the 8D with a Group 27.When the engine is cool it cranks quickly and starts quickly.
When the engine is hot (engine has been run for a while, turned off) the start battery really really struggles to turn the engine over (it cannot turn the engine over fast enough to start)… I have to combine my house bank with the start battery to get it started.(I use a Balmar MaxCharge 612 to charge the house bank and a Balmar Duo Charge to keep the engine start battery charged.)
Do I just not have a big enough start battery?
Is the starter suffering from some heat related disorder?
ThanksRick
Eclipse—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kidding—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kiddingPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
-
Bob
Fantanstic…a bona fide mechanical reason to give the Admiral when I buy another gadget..
good suggestion… will explore the starter temperature angle..
Thanks
RickOn 8/5/08, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi Rick,
Let me think about that. It could be that the engine is, indeed, running hot and needs to cool down before it's easy to start. It could also be that the starter motor's bearings are going bad so that it requires higher starting currents when hot. You can purchase a really inexpensive infra-red thermometer from Radio Shack that you just point and press a button to get the temp -it works from like -100 to + 500 or something ridiculous. The starter shouldn't get much warmer than the engine block, especially if it's disengaged. The engine block should get to around 180-200 degrees anywhere you point. The transmission might get warmer. But everything should be well below 250 degrees.
Be careful as 140 degrees is scalding. It does sound temperature related.
Bob
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 6:23 PM, Rick Dugger < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Bob,
Last season the 8D was working with the engine cool or hot, although it progressively became sluggish at cranking a hot engine. The 8D finally gave up the ghost back in June of this year and I replaced it with the group 27. It had difficulty starting a hot engine from the get go. It starts it fine when the engine is cool.
All of my house bank batteries are of the 6V wet cell variety and the starting Group 27 is a 12v wet cell.
Thanks
RickOn Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Rick, there are several reasons a group 27 won't start the engine, especially if it did last year – one, it's low on water or was at some point, two, the engine is running hot and you don't know it yet, and three, the engine is still 'tight' from being new. That's the least likely. I use a group 31 for my start battery on a W58. But if you have a charging system that expects a fancy battery (like AGMs ) and you're running flooded batteries you may be cooking the group 27. It will show up as bad long before the big 8Ds show up the problem.
Hope that helps…
Bob
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 7:02 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Rick,
I assume that during the time the engine is cooling down your are back in your slip and the battery charger is charging the start battery.
If that is the case I would look at the Duo Charge system you are using to charge the start battery when the engine is running. I'm not familiar with this system, but it may be similar to the battery combiner I use on Sarah. Mine is wired the opposite of what you appear to have. The combiner connects the house battery to the alternator output once the start battery is above 13.3VDC. The original combiner on Sarah failed in 2006 on a passage from Lagos, PT to Gibraltar. The result was all the navigation instruments and lights went out in the middle of the night. Similar to what you do for your start battery I manually combined the batteries which restored power to the instruments and allowed the alternator to recharge the house battery.So it is possible the Duo Charge system has failed and is not providing sufficient charge to the start battery. A quick test would be to check the voltage of the start battery after the engine has been running for a few minutes. If the start battery is being charged the voltage should be 14VDC or more.
A fully charged Group 27 should be adequate to start the engine. I'm temporarily using a Group 27 to start my Yanmar engine with no problems.
John
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Rick Dugger < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Has anyone experienced this situation and have recommendations?
Eclipse (#73) was repowered by the PO in 1999 with a Westerbeke 63C.
Last season I did not seem to have this issue. It appears to have developed this season.
The engine start battery, an 8D, was replaced early this season because it was old and got to the point it wouldn't start the engine cold or hot. I replaced the 8D with a Group 27.When the engine is cool it cranks quickly and starts quickly.
When the engine is hot (engine has been run for a while, turned off) the start battery really really struggles to turn the engine over (it cannot turn the engine over fast enough to start)… I have to combine my house bank with the start battery to get it started.(I use a Balmar MaxCharge 612 to charge the house bank and a Balmar Duo Charge to keep the engine start battery charged.)
Do I just not have a big enough start battery?
Is the starter suffering from some heat related disorder?
ThanksRick
Eclipse—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kidding—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kiddingPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Rick
From your description, I can’t tell how you have your batteries connected. I use a separate starter battery that does nothing but start the engine. It doesn’t run anything else. This insures that no matter how much I run the house batteries down, I can start the engine. The boat didn’t come this way. It came with a pair of 8D deep-cycle batteries in the starboard locker. I found that these batteries weren’t very good for starting the engine. They don’t have enough cold-cranking capacity and they can get run down. What you really want is a starter battery for starting the engine and deep cycle batteries for house batteries. I use a generic truck starter battery. The largest starting battery that Sams Club sells. Hooking an isolated battery up like this can be expensive or complicated but there is at least one simple way to do this using a solenoid switch.It sounds as if you have an electrical problem somewhere; perhaps a loose connection somewhere in your starter circuit. Try cleaning the terminals off with sandpaper and tightening them back up. The next time the engine fails to crank, try shorting out the starter solenoid. You may have an issue there.
Regards
Rich – BlackSheepQuote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Rick,
Any further developments on this issue? If the G27 batteries can start the engine once it cools without any charging, then I have to agree with Bob that is likely a heat related problem – most likely in the starter.However, I did have a problem on a previous boat, that initially acted like your problem. The wire terminal which attached the boat ground to the engine block had cracked and nearly separated. Therefore most of the amps for the starter motor were flowing for the physical contact of the lug terminal lying on top of the engine. The engine would start dockside, but when I needed to restart on returning to the marina it would randomly not start. Fortunately that was a 2-cylinder engine and I could hand crank it. I got really good at hand cranking the engine that summer. At first I thought the problem was linked to a warm engine, but as the lug terminal worked it's way toward total separation, but failure to start became more random and no longer consistent with engine operation.
I trouble shot the problem all summer, but never once thought to check the boat ground. Finally I gave up and turned in a work order to the boat yard. The mechanic took the started off the engine and bench checked it with no problem found. Then after re-installing the starter and the engine continuing to not start he took a slight tug on the boat ground and this time the terminal separated and the ground wire came loose from the engine block. He replaced the lug terminal and re-secured it to the block and I never had a starting problem thereafter.
Needless to say I was embarrassed to have not tested the most basic electrical troubleshoot step for an entire summer. If your problem continues to be consistent with the engine being warm, then this is likely not the source of the problem. However, a good tug on both the engine and battery terminals is probably worth doing.John
On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 6:50 PM, Rich Carter < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Rick
From your description, I can't tell how you have your batteries connected. I use a separate starter battery that does nothing but start the engine. It doesn't run anything else. This insures that no matter how much I run the house batteries down, I can start the engine. The boat didn't come this way. It came with a pair of 8D deep-cycle batteries in the starboard locker. I found that these batteries weren't very good for starting the engine. They don't have enough cold-cranking capacity and they can get run down. What you really want is a starter battery for starting the engine and deep cycle batteries for house batteries. I use a generic truck starter battery. The largest starting battery that Sams Club sells. Hooking an isolated battery up like this can be expensive or complicated but there is at least one simple way to do this using a solenoid switch.It sounds as if you have an electrical problem somewhere; perhaps a loose connection somewhere in your starter circuit. Try cleaning the terminals off with sandpaper and tightening them back up. The next time the engine fails to crank, try shorting out the starter solenoid. You may have an issue there.
Regards
Rich – BlackSheepQuote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Rich and John
ThanksI was unable to go to the boat this weekend, so I haven't had a chance to try any of the suggestions that have been made.
My house bank is separate from the start battery.
I think the battery switch panel is a blue sea … it has separate switches for the house and starter batteries and a third switch that combines them, when necessary.Although I rewired all the batteries and charging and starting systems when I bought the boat in 2006 I will take a very close look at all of the connections.
Occam's Razor has gotten me before, I shouldn't let it get me this time.
Rick
Eclipse #73On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Rich Carter < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Rick
From your description, I can't tell how you have your batteries connected. I use a separate starter battery that does nothing but start the engine. It doesn't run anything else. This insures that no matter how much I run the house batteries down, I can start the engine. The boat didn't come this way. It came with a pair of 8D deep-cycle batteries in the starboard locker. I found that these batteries weren't very good for starting the engine. They don't have enough cold-cranking capacity and they can get run down. What you really want is a starter battery for starting the engine and deep cycle batteries for house batteries. I use a generic truck starter battery. The largest starting battery that Sams Club sells. Hooking an isolated battery up like this can be expensive or complicated but there is at least one simple way to do this using a solenoid switch.It sounds as if you have an electrical problem somewhere; perhaps a loose connection somewhere in your starter circuit. Try cleaning the terminals off with sandpaper and tightening them back up. The next time the engine fails to crank, try shorting out the starter solenoid. You may have an issue there.
Regards
Rich – BlackSheepQuote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Sometimes we don’t listen to our own advice. The motor in my dinghy has an electric start and runs with a small garden-tractor battery. Last week, I found that I was unable to start the dinghy motor without using the emergency pull starter. I had my wife stop at Walmart and bring down a replacement battery, but the darn thing still wouldn’t start. Odd that Walmart would leave their batteries on the shelf long enough for them to go bad. After wressling with the damn pull starter all weekend, I finally pulled the cables off the battery and cleaned them with sandpaper. The thing starts like a champ now. Boy, do I feel stupid. They sell a terminal coating that protects battery cables from corrosion. I use it on my sailboat batteries, but never even thought of spraying the dinghy battery connections.
Rich
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Can anyone suggest a good winter cover for the 424? Also, would anyone have one they would like to part with?
Adam
Fifth Child #218<.. snip>
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the nicest covers I hace seen are made by fairclough sailmakers in CT. Note they are pricey David Thompson
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 4:37 PM, Adam MacNeill wrote:
Can anyone suggest a good winter cover for the 424? Also, would anyone have one they would like to part with?
Adam
Fifth Child #218___________________________________
<.. snip>
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I happen to have one of the Fairclough covers- I found it in Vermont for $500 brand new! Had to buy a frame, though… 1,200….
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 9:18 PM, < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:the nicest covers I hace seen are made by fairclough sailmakers in CT. Note they are pricey David ThompsonOn Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 4:37 PM, Adam MacNeill wrote:
Can anyone suggest a good winter cover for the 424? Also, would anyone have one they would like to part with?
Adam
Fifth Child #218___________________________________
<.. snip>
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