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I just realized (duh) that the 424 has a theoretical hull speed of 7.74 knots (1.34 x ?33.33′). This should
increase with a moderate angle of heel. Has anyone actually maintained 7-3/4 to 8 knots thru the water for any
length of time (without surfing or current)?Tor
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Tor,
The best 24 hour run I've done on Sarah was back-to-back 168nm days. That comes out to an average of 7 kts for 48 hours. So there were extended periods were the speed was well above 7 kts., some of which was surfing – but not that much. We had about 25-35 kts of wind on the starboard quarter for the period.I've certainly seen extended periods (hour+) when the speed was above 7.5 kts. 8 kts and above was generally surfing or riding a strong current.
John
On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I just realized (duh) that the 424 has a theoretical hull speed of 7.74 knots (1.34 x ?33.33'). This should
increase with a moderate angle of heel. Has anyone actually maintained 7-3/4 to 8 knots thru the water for any
length of time (without surfing or current)?Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
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Regards,
John Stevenson
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Thanks, John. That confirms my expectations. All I’ve done is work on my boat since I bought her a little over 2 years ago. No one is more surprised than I (1) that I’ve actually done this, and (2) that I’ve enjoyed it so much. Still, there comes a time when the boat and the skipper really need to go sailing. Pretty soon I won’t have to ask about the 424’s underway characteristics, but will know them firsthand.
Tor
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That sounds like a fine sail, Dan, and in an especially beautiful place! I have little doubt these boats will do 8 knots, although you can’t really know with certainty from a single GPS reading since the SOG will necessarily include the effect of any currents running at that time and place. (You might have been sailing 9 knots against a 1-knot current, or 7 with another 1 assisting.) A calibrated knot log to read true speed through the water is the ideal, but in lieu of that I’d settle for GPS readings averaged out over at least 2 (preferably 4 ) reciprocal courses. That way you’ve pretty much cancelled out the effect of the current, if there is one.
Of course, none of this matters a whole heck of a lot except for bragging rights. SOG is what counts for navigating.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
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Yes, I can run at 7.8 kts at full throttle. It burns about 5gal/hr
however. The boat can be pushed to about 7.3 kts with little effort. Any
more than that starts to suck the fuel down. The stern wave starts to climb
up the transom, completely submerging the exhaust outlet. I suspect that
the boat’s actual hull speed is 7.3kts and I’m plowing to get 7.8kts.
Theoretical hull speed and actual hull speed may differ considerably.I’ve sailed the boat at 7.8kts or maybe a little faster many times. It will
do about 8kts downwind in a blow. The boat squats. I think this causes the
waterline to get longer.I’ve reached at about the same speed in a blow, but when the boat is heeled,
it has a longer waterline.Rich
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We logged a 178 mile day (24 hrs.) with our No 1 and main in a 20+ wind on our way to the Caribbean in 1999. That is a little over 7.4. The conditions were about as good as they get – steady seas with very steady wind.
Cada
JubileeFeb 15, 2009 05:29:22 PM, () wrote:
I just realized (duh) that the 424 has a theoretical hull speed of 7.74 knots (1.34 x ?33.33′). This should
increase with a moderate angle of heel. Has anyone actually maintained 7-3/4 to 8 knots thru the water for any
length of time (without surfing or current)?Tor
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Some additional info – the bottom had just been cleaned, and we have a max prop. Our heel was about 20 degrees. A bit much – but we were in a race. Jubilee finish 11th out of 57 over the line and about 5th on corrected time.
Cada
Feb 16, 2009 12:37:04 AM, () wrote:
We logged a 178 mile day (24 hrs.) with our No 1 and main in a 20+ wind on our way to the Caribbean in 1999. That is a little over 7.4. The conditions were about as good as they get – steady seas with very steady wind.
Cada
JubileeFeb 15, 2009 05:29:22 PM, () wrote:
I just realized (duh) that the 424 has a theoretical hull speed of 7.74 knots (1.34 x ?33.33′). This should
increase with a moderate angle of heel. Has anyone actually maintained 7-3/4 to 8 knots thru the water for any
length of time (without surfing or current)?Tor
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Thanks, Rich. Interesting to compare fuel consumption at 7.8 vs. 7.3 knots, data that can only be ascertained over a long period of use. I agree that heeling under sail is likely to increase the waterline length and, so, the hull speed. Am looking forward to finding all this out for myself before long.
Tor
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I can hardly wait to do it myself!
Tor
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Hi Tor,
You will be pleasantly surprised I'm sure. With mizzen, 140% jib and staysail I've gone 7.5 or so on a close reach with no drama.
If you're used to boats that twitch (Hunters, Ericsons, Catalinas, Beneteaus or any of the like) and respond to every little wheel movement and require constant attention you will be either pleased or disappointed depending on your point of view.
If an Ericson or Beneteau is like a sports car, the 424 is like that great big '58 Coupe de Ville Caddy rollin' down the road. Nothing bothers it, nothing sways it. It just barrels along. Well, except for light wind. Then, it just wallows along. But when all the little toy boats are heading for the marina, you'll just be toolin' along with a great big grin on your face. No drama. It takes a lot to knock her off her heels.
But that's just my take on it.
Bob
On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:I can hardly wait to do it myself!Tor
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I would agree with Bob. On Jubilee at night under full sail, it was great to to be in your bunk while she just kept plowing forward. The auto pilot would only need to do an occassional correction.
Another 424 story… Hi Flight in 2000 finished only 20 minutes (corrected time) behind the nunber one boat in the fleet!
Cada
Feb 16, 2009 01:41:09 AM, () wrote:
Quote:Hi Tor,You will be pleasantly surprised I’m sure. With mizzen, 140% jib and staysail I’ve gone 7.5 or so on a close reach with no drama.
If you’re used to boats that twitch (Hunters, Ericsons, Catalinas, Beneteaus or any of the like) and respond to every little wheel movement and require constant attention you will be either pleased or disappointed depending on your point of view.
If an Ericson or Beneteau is like a sports car, the 424 is like that great big ’58 Coupe de Ville Caddy rollin’ down the road. Nothing bothers it, nothing sways it. It just barrels along. Well, except for light wind. Then, it just wallows along. But when all the little toy boats are heading for the marina, you’ll just be toolin’ along with a great big grin on your face. No drama. It takes a lot to knock her off her heels.
But that’s just my take on it.
Bob
On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:I can hardly wait to do it myself!Tor
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Bob,
I don’t have any direct experience with Hunters or Beneteaus, so cannot compare. My last cruiser was a Crealock 37 and she was a trouper. Before that a steel Finesterre yawl, preceded by a 1927 William Hand designed gaff rigged ketch, and my first true love, a converted gaff-rigged lifeboat – plus an assortment of non-liveaboard boats in between. Each had her own style, as does this Pearson 424. I got a taste when I sailed Silver Heels the first few hundred miles to get to this boat yard, so I already know I will not be disappointed. Just getting itchy feet lately. I always did contract spring fever way early.
Tor
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Tor
The boat speed figures under power are from timed runs in both directions with a clean bottom and little or no wind. I double-checked the fuel consumption figure. Max fuel consumption is about 4.3 gal/hr, not 5 gal/hr. This is based on Yanmar’s specifications on fuel consumption at full load. I doubt that I could load the engine enough to consume this much fuel. I don’t think I’ll ever run the boat that hard for any distance to be able to measure it. I do run the engine hard for about 20 minutes every 10 hrs of operation as suggested in the owner’s manual.Regards
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Hi Rich and Tor,
For everyone with a Westerbeke 58, the fuel consumption curve in the engine manual is almost exactly dead on. I forgot you are running the Yanmar. If anyone with the Westerbeke needs a copy of the fuel usage graph, I'll scan and post it.
Tor, your experience with boats of this nature is nothing less than amazing! Until I purchased Pelican, my boats had been racer-cruisers which need constant attention – like sports cars. That used to be great fun but as I get older, my mind wanders farther afield and I need more of a partnership with the boat. Pelican (and Silverheels) fit the bill quite nicely.
I, too, cannot wait to get the cover off and go sailing! If it's just to bring the boat up the Hudson for it's short haul.
Bob
On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 10:20 PM, Rich Carter < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Tor
The boat speed figures under power are from timed runs in both directions with a clean bottom and little or no wind. I double-checked the fuel consumption figure. Max fuel consumption is about 4.3 gal/hr, not 5 gal/hr. This is based on Yanmar's specifications on fuel consumption at full load. I doubt that I could load the engine enough to consume this much fuel. I don't think I'll ever run the boat that hard for any distance to be able to measure it. I do run the engine hard for about 20 minutes every 10 hrs of operation as suggested in the owner's manual.Regards
RichQuote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Tor,I have on several occasions gone over 8 knots on San Francisco Bay in the slot (between Alcatraz and Treasure Island) on a 3/4 reach with a 150 Genoa and full Main. Last summer we had her peaking at 10 plus SOG on the GPS surfing down big waves with a following sea and 25 knots of wind. Flat water and big wind aren’t available where I sail but I am pretty certain that 7.74 is attainable. There are many variables like weight, sails and hull condition that make a boat go. The most noticeable improvement I made was to have the blisters ground out and the hull buffed smooth. I picked up a knot under power using rpm vs speed data. Also, have been working diligently to keep any unnecessary “stuff” off the boat.
-Bill
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Thanks for that input, Bill. I am certainly encouraged by all this. Even though my boat is loaded down for long-term liveaboard cruising, she’s still sitting well in the water and I expect she’ll perform up to the design’s high standard. Of course, I’ve raised the waterline some, but that’s almost a given for any liveaboard cruiser.
Tor
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