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Has anyone found that there are variations in the hull thickness of the 424’s, and what have you found it to be in different locations if at all? Having a machinist background, I would appreciate estimates in 1/32″ if not 1/64″. Decimals is what I really love though!!! 🙂 I guess my question is based from being a wood boat guy and not really at all familiar with the methods of laying-up fiberglass back in the 80’s.
Is it thicker closer to the keel? Maybe less up forward where possibly a forward head would have thru-hulls?
I’m just curious, and want to visualize about the impact resistance of the hull.
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As you correctly note, each hull is different. The encapsulated front of the keel is good for hitting stuff. The hollow keelbox is bad for blocking when hauled. You need to get a drill and drill through each section of your hull, noting the various thicknesses. (Please post results)
Adam Silverstein
On Aug 7, 2013, at 8:44 PM, “Page Two” wrote:
Has anyone found that there are variations in the hull thickness of the 424’s, and what have you found it to be in different locations if at all? Having a machinist background, I would appreciate estimates in 1/32″ if not 1/64″. Decimals is what I really love though!!! 🙂 I guess my question is based from being a wood boat guy and not really at all familiar with the methods of laying-up fiberglass back in the 80’s.
Is it thicker closer to the keel? Maybe less up forward where possibly a forward head would have thru-hulls?
I’m just curious, and want to visualize about the impact resistance of the hull.
Writing a New Chapter Page by Page in an Old Book.— m2f
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I would probably stay away from submerged shipping containers.
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 8, 2013, at 1:34 PM, Mizzenmonkey wrote:
As you correctly note, each hull is different. The encapsulated front of the keel is good for hitting stuff. The hollow keelbox is bad for blocking when hauled. You need to get a drill and drill through each section of your hull, noting the various thicknesses. (Please post results)
Adam Silverstein
On Aug 7, 2013, at 8:44 PM, “Page Two” wrote:
Has anyone found that there are variations in the hull thickness of the 424’s, and what have you found it to be in different locations if at all? Having a machinist background, I would appreciate estimates in 1/32″ if not 1/64″. Decimals is what I really love though!!! 🙂 I guess my question is based from being a wood boat guy and not really at all familiar with the methods of laying-up fiberglass back in the 80’s.
Is it thicker closer to the keel? Maybe less up forward where possibly a forward head would have thru-hulls?
I’m just curious, and want to visualize about the impact resistance of the hull.
Writing a New Chapter Page by Page in an Old Book.— m2f
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There must be an easier way to test hull thinness rather than drilling holes. Someone must make an ultrasonic gizmo that does this. Try searching ebay for ultrasonic hull thickness gauge.
If you endup drilling all those holes however, I’d be interested in learning the results.
Regards
Rich Carter
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I would dare say that with all of the 424’s in use and all of the sea miles they have traveled through the years, that the hull thickness is proper where it needs to be.
Just saying
AlanSent from my iPhone
On Aug 8, 2013, at 3:19 PM, wrote:
Quote:There must be an easier way to test hull thinness rather than drilling holes. Someone must make an ultrasonic gizmo that does this. Try searching ebay for ultrasonic hull thickness gauge.If you endup drilling all those holes however, I’d be interested in learning the results.
Regards
Rich Carter
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Thanks guys, no I won’t go drilling holes, and I’m pretty confident it’s thick “enough”, I wouldn’t be buying one if I had doubts. I thought maybe someone has been at a few thru-hulls and would know….1/4″…5/16″…3/8″ ? There are holes all over the boat to begin with. I would hope it’s at least 3/8″, this is what I want to know. I’ve heard over and over that newer boats are a lot thinner than when they were building in the earlier years of fiberglass and I’ve been on delivery offshore watching the fwd hull flex of an obviously thinner hull than 424.
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Something to check when you replace seacocks. Everything near the keel is pretty thick. The bottom at the turn of the bilge is thinner. The port forward deck drain exits the bottom at a seacock under the quarter berth. The bottom there on Clairebuoyant is less than 1/4″ thick. That’s the one I think about at night.
I think that I would hit the container dead on, where the hull is really thick, rather than risk ripping open her flanks. Remember the Titanic.
Quent -
From my experience, the hull is about 1/4 to 5/16″ near the toe rail,
bottom of the keel is like 1″ or so (too thin to hold the weight of the
boat), the turn of the bilge where my depth sensor is is like 3/4″ to
1-1/4″. Surprisingly thick. I don’t remember what the stem is, but it’s
really thick.But the transom is surprisingly thin. 1/4″ to 3/16″.
Bob
On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 3:40 PM, Page Two wrote:
Thanks guys, no I won’t go drilling holes, and I’m pretty confident it’s
thick “enough”, I wouldn’t be buying one if I had doubts. I thought maybe
someone has been at a few thru-hulls and would know….1/4″…5/16″…3/8″
? There are holes all over the boat to begin with. I would hope it’s at
least 3/8″, this is what I want to know. I’ve heard over and over that
newer boats are a lot thinner than when they were building in the earlier
years of fiberglass and I’ve been on delivery offshore watching the fwd
hull flex of an obviously thinner hull than 424.
Writing a New Chapter Page by Page in an Old Book._______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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Last winter there was a Niagara 42 that hit a partially submerged shipping container, they believe. It was about 30 miles north of the entrance to Elizabeth Harbor in Georgetown Bahamas. A well traveled area. The boat sank in 20 minutes!
Crew was saved. Never heard any more about the boat.
Alan
Sent from my iPhoneOn Aug 8, 2013, at 4:49 PM, “quent” wrote:
Something to check when you replace seacocks. Everything near the keel is pretty thick. The bottom at the turn of the bilge is thinner. The port forward deck drain exits the bottom at a seacock under the quarter berth. The bottom there on Clairebuoyant is less than 1/4″ thick. That’s the one I think about at night.
I think that I would hit the container dead on, where the hull is really thick, rather than risk ripping open her flanks. Remember the Titanic.
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Speaking of hitting shipping containers, that’s the opening scene in Robert Redford’s new movie “All is lost”. Three Cal 39’s were sacrificed in making that movie. Google the trailer and I think you’ll agree: The loud thump and water rush makes you mentally say ” Oh Shi……”.
Dan Kalinowski
Jolly Lama #135
Keehi Lagoon, O’ahu -
Thanks again guys. I’m not surprised that lower in the bilge or at the stem are thicker.
So Bob, you think the majority of the hull/topsides overall is 1/4 to 5/16″? That’s what I really wanted to envision, the topsides. -
I’m sure I have some notes somewhere about the hull thickness of my boat at
several locations where I was able to measure it, including the 18 original
thru-hulls (now reduced to 9), one side of the deep sump (where I installed
a garboard drain plug), and so on. Overall, my 424 hull lay-up is
considerably thinner than I’d like it to be for ocean sailing, but that’s
not surprising considering the relatively light displacement of these boats.
Pearson wasn’t trying to build an ice-breaker, or even a blue water voyager.
I think they were intended for weekends at Block Island, a little club
racing, and an annual family cruise Down East. The original anchor well on
the foredeck alone is proof the builder wasn’t thinking about the 424 going
world cruising. Still, the boats do voyage and cross oceans. My approach is
to go for it and worry about hull thickness later. It has proven to be thick
enough so far.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Tor, yes, and I believe they came with some pretty chinsy plastic ports too. Back around 1990, I was helping a friend who just bought a 424 deliver it to Antigua. When I met them in Newport he say’s ” Ken, first job, we need backup plates for the ports if one blows out.” Two pieces way over-sized 3/4″ plywood with long carriage bolts and nuts. I made three sets I believe. Just In Case!
I just had a call from him minutes ago (old sailing buddy’s never fade), and I told him my curiosity about the hull thickness, he laughs and says, “Ken, I’m not sure, but you sure as hell can’t throw a dead cat through it like they’re building them today!” A good laugh. -
Wow, I haven’t heard about carrying thick plywood portlight covers in
decades. It was one of the old salty-dog tricks we used to parrot in the
70’s. I think I actually made a set once. Sure, if you’re setting out to
round Cape Horn you might do that and a lot of other things, but then again
you wouldn’t be going in a Pearson (I hope). This side of The Cape, I don’t
believe I’ve ever heard of a boat’s portlights being punched out by a wave.
I’m not talking about big, motor-sailer windows, but portlights and
portholes, plastic or otherwise. I ain’t sayin’ it can’t happen. I’ve just
never heard of it happening.To paraphrase Meher Baba, “Don’t worry, go sailing.”
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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But….but….Cape Bermuda? No wait….the Gulf stream, that’s it. And I know I could of thrown a dead cat right through one of those portlights!
“WINDIGO” had some massive windows on the doghouse that we would cover with 1/2″ Lexan for passage.
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Actually, if you have portlights larger than a certain size you’re required
to carry them on offshore races like Newport Bermuda.Bob
I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Aug 8, 2013 9:22 PM, “Silverheels” wrote:Quote:Wow, I haven’t heard about carrying thick plywood portlight covers in
decades. It was one of the old salty-dog tricks we used to parrot in the
70’s. I think I actually made a set once. Sure, if you’re setting out to
round Cape Horn you might do that and a lot of other things, but then again
you wouldn’t be going in a Pearson (I hope). This side of The Cape, I don’t
believe I’ve ever heard of a boat’s portlights being punched out by a wave.
I’m not talking about big, motor-sailer windows, but portlights and
portholes, plastic or otherwise. I ain’t sayin’ it can’t happen. I’ve just
never heard of it happening.To paraphrase Meher Baba, “Don’t worry, go sailing.”
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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To my knowledge, the only area where there are problems with the hull is the forward section where the topsides are flat. I had to have the bow reglassed after a rough crossing to Bermuda several years ago. The hull broke free from the forward bulkhead. A quick fix is to reinforce the shelf attachment in the V-berth where the shelves attach to the forward bulkhead. This is cheap, easy and would have probably prevented the problem I had. If you are considering serious blue-water cruising, you might want to reinforce the hull above the V-berth bunk, particularly where it attaches to the bunk shelf and bulkheads. The problem occurs when driving upwind into a heavy sea. The boat lays over on one side. The bow rises over each wave and drops off the back side slapping the bow on the trough. This gives the flat bow section quite a pounding. A few days of this can do quite a lot of damage.
Rich
BlackSheep
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I heeded Rich’s advice on this years ago, before I took Silverheels
cruising. I fabricated asymmetrical stainless steel L-brackets and
thru-bolted them to the forepeak shelf ends and adjacent bulkheads, fore &
aft. The shelves are tabbed to the hull and, as long as that tabbing holds,
they serve as reinforcing stringers up there. The brackets I added
effectively prevent the shelves from “working,” as in starting to move in
rough conditions, which otherwise might eventually break that tabbing. Once
that goes, the hull is free to flex even more and can bust loose from other
attachment points. I’m guessing this is what happened to Rich.Anyway, that’s my Theory of 424 Hull Reinforcement. So far, so good.
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Something else to consider is how well they were put in too. At present I am working on a Pearson 35, late 70’s. Not a 424 by a long shot but still built by the same yard, I’ll assume. Somebody please correct me if I’m wrong. I first had to re-cut 4 fixed ports to replace with opening ss. They weren’t too bad other than I was surprised how thin the actual outer layer of glass was about 3/16″ The inner layer was about the same thickness but of way less quality lay-up. It was very….brittle and came apart easy. Of course they were not connected and any water leakage has the opportunity to run down between the layers and come out anywhere outboard in any locker. Anyway those ports went in well.
Now, when I pulled out the 4 “fixed” large lights, 32″ by 9″, holy shit! The cut-out on the outer skin was crude and barely the actual shape of the port that had to fit in it. At two places when the outer flange of the port came up to the cabin side there was barely an 1/8″ support. And the inside cut-out was worse and off centered to boot so that when this whole assembly was put in my guess would be it had exactly half or less…..of the actual surface area of the outer layer keeping it from blowing out/in.
What’s really interesting is that, that was the stb side, the port side was considerably better but still so crude it has me believing a well place sea the size of many I have seen pop a side deck would punch that port straight into the boat. Hey, maybe the “new kid” cut those ports out on that particular day after a night out I can’t be sure, but with anything to do with a production boat, I’ll play the safe side trusting things of that nature.
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Reinforcing the forward hull to the bulkhead is duly noted!!! Thank you!
Off to work….gotta go.Ken.
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Funny, Ken, I just did the same job on a Pearson 35 (’73) and it was
exactly as you describe. That was the boat I had to build the sea boards
for because the large portlights are big enough to meet the SOLAS criteria.I, too, was surprised by the thinness and poor fit. But thankfully there’s
silicone for which Pearson must have had stock. There were pounds of it in
each portlight…On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Page Two wrote:
Something else to consider is how well they were put in too. At present I
am working on a Pearson 35, late 70’s. Not a 424 by a long shot but still
built by the same yard, I’ll assume. Somebody please correct me if I’m
wrong. I first had to re-cut 4 fixed ports to replace with opening ss. They
weren’t too bad other than I was surprised how thin the actual outer layer
of glass was about 3/16″ The inner layer was about the same thickness but
of way less quality lay-up. It was very….brittle and came apart easy. Of
course they were not connected and any water leakage has the opportunity to
run down between the layers and come out anywhere outboard in any locker.
Anyway those ports went in well.Now, when I pulled out the 4 “fixed” large lights, 32″ by 9″, holy shit!
The cut-out on the outer skin was crude and barely the actual shape of the
port that had to fit in it. At two places when the outer flange of the port
came up to the cabin side there was barely an 1/8″ support. And the inside
cut-out was worse and off centered to boot so that when this whole assembly
was put in my guess would be it had exactly half or less…..of the actual
surface area of the outer layer keeping it from blowing out/in.What’s really interesting is that, that was the stb side, the port side
was considerably better but still so crude it has me believing a well place
sea the size of many I have seen pop a side deck would punch that port
straight into the boat. Hey, maybe the “new kid” cut those ports out on
that particular day after a night out I can’t be sure, but with anything to
do with a production boat, I’ll play the safe side trusting things of that
nature.
Writing a New Chapter Page by Page in an Old Book._______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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Funny Bob, there was absolutely no silicone or even bedding on these. The only thing sealing the outside was a foam gasket, nothing else!!!!!!! Of course over the years someone kept silicone on the outer lip of the aluminum flange and kept up the silicone on the glass to frame lip. Dry as a bone when I took them apart. I’ll be using peel and strip white butyl rubber on the exterior, then heavy 1/2″ black butyl forced into the weaker area’s from inside, then fill the rest of the void from the inside with silicone, clamp it shut. I’ve also completely cleaned the glass to frame and will be adding DC 795. This boat has spent it’s whole life in one place (mostly doing nothing), at Concord Yacht Club, Knoxville, TN
Ken
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