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Hi all,
Dawn here, of S/V Deep Playa, Patrick and I are working on replacing all of the teak paneling and the portholes that was around the old portholes above the drip rail. We have run into somewhat of a quandry. We are replacing the teak with 1/4 birch plywood that is flexible enough to conform to the shape of the hull but only with pressure applied. We have been discussing possible ways to create enough equally distributed pressure across the plywood strong enough to be sustained throughout the drying and curing process of the adhesive.
So here is the problem:
Starboard side portholes (2) in the salon
2 – approximately 4.5″ x 14″ 1/4″ plywood
5200 fast cure adhesiveWe were thinking of using 5200 for the adhesive. Any suggestions/issues with that?
What can we possibly use to create enough pressure across the area?One potential posssibility was to buy tension rods for hanging up shower curtains and place them across the starboard side to the port side hull to create tension. That may take alot of tension rods and will they create ENOUGH pressure to conform the wood especially since they tend to lose strength across long distances?
Thanks
Dawn
s/v Deep PlayaPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Hi Dawn,
Probably the best idea is to use 2 x 4s with wedges at the other end – cheap and easy.
Bob
On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Dawn Rodney < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi all,
Dawn here, of S/V Deep Playa, Patrick and I are working on replacing all of the teak paneling and the portholes that was around the old portholes above the drip rail. We have run into somewhat of a quandry. We are replacing the teak with 1/4 birch plywood that is flexible enough to conform to the shape of the hull but only with pressure applied. We have been discussing possible ways to create enough equally distributed pressure across the plywood strong enough to be sustained throughout the drying and curing process of the adhesive.
So here is the problem:
Starboard side portholes (2) in the salon
2 – approximately 4.5″ x 14″ 1/4″ plywood
5200 fast cure adhesive
We were thinking of using 5200 for the adhesive. Any suggestions/issues with that?
What can we possibly use to create enough pressure across the area?
One potential posssibility was to buy tension rods for hanging up shower curtains and place them across the starboard side to the port side hull to create tension. That may take alot of tension rods and will they create ENOUGH pressure to conform the wood especially since they tend to lose strength across long distances?
Thanks
Dawn
s/v Deep Playa
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
Follow me at: http://www.tinyurl.com/WhereIsBobFinePost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Dawn
I replaced a small section of teak plywood around one of the portlights a few months back. I’m surprised that you find it difficult to bend the panels. When cut to the appropriate width, the stock I used was quite flexible. I used teak plywood, a little less than 1/4 inch thick, probably a metric equivalent. There was no adhesive used to hold the plywood in place and I suggest not using any. It would make subsequent repairs difficult.Rich
Original Message
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The problem isn’t in pushing it up their initially, just in pushing on all 9’6″x1’5″ of it for hours while the glue sets up.
Robert’s suggest of using 2×4’s with wedges is a good one. I’ll ask at the yard too. I’m taking Wednesday off to work on the boat and borrow tools from them. Maybe I should make them a turkey too. 😉
-p
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s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comFrom:
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:20 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Ideas to successfully hang new panelingp { margin: 0; } Dawn
I replaced a small section of teak plywood around one of the portlights a few months back. I’m surprised that you find it difficult to bend the panels. When cut to the appropriate width, the stock I used was quite flexible. I used teak plywood, a little less than 1/4 inch thick, probably a metric equivalent. There was no adhesive used to hold the plywood in place and I suggest not using any. It would make subsequent repairs difficult.Rich
Original Message
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Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
Pat
There are five portlights on each side to hold the panels in place. There is a grab-rail piece that runs the full length of the bottom and there are pins to hold the molding at the top edge. This all worked to hold the small section I replaced. Offhand, I can’t see why it wouldn’t work for the entire interior. I of course haven’t tried it, so I’m interested to hear how their project turns out. The section I replaced had no adhesive to hold it in place. I had assumed the portlights make this unnecessary.I have a small rotted piece between the two aft portlights on the port side. This area is behind the bulkhead and galley cabinets, difficult to see and almost impossible to replace.
Rich
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Hi Dawn-
Been there, done that. We used 1/4″ teak faced plywood, finished with Cetol.
I think Pat said you already removed the ports. The original paneling may or may not be one piece. Ours, maybe not original, was pieced together eight feet aft near the fwd companionway.
First remove the trim between the panel and the overhead, then remove the panel. Remove the bottom shelf/rail being careful not to mess up the bunged screwholes. Use the old panel as a pattern to cut the new stuff. Do not cut the portholes yet. Cut them after the paneling is installed with a sabre saw from outside.
Don’t use 5200. It is both too messy and too permanent. Silicone, if you need something, but I wouldn’t use anything except around the port holes.
Finally, either create a spacer around the ports, or make sure that the inside of the laminate is smooth with no bumps. Any outward pressure on the laminate will cause a star shaped crack in the gellcoat.
Our biggest problem is moisture under the ports either due to leakage around the Bomar port, or cold weather sweating of the metal port. It will discolor the paneling unless you can completely seal the wood.
When you reinstall the panel, you will have to bow it to fit it in. Be careful not to scratch the forward bulkhead.
Quent
I think it is a good idea to prefinish the new paneling. -
Please stay away from 3M 5200. It is VERY difficult to remove without high heat. I believe 3M makes a 3500 that is a bit more forgiving.
Adam
5th Child
#218Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:42:31 +0000
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We just did some cabin work on Lady Leanne and had to hold lumber for the glue to set. Try using 1×1’s as shims across to the opposite wall. Cheap and springy. Use a flat section of ply as a base for the shim to spread out the pressure and protect the wood finish on the glued piece.
Dan Kalinowski
Lady Leanne II (#135)
Honolulu -
This is how ours appears to be have installed at the factory:
The 1/4″ teak plywood is tied into the drip rail which is actually two pieces of wood sandwiching the 1/4″ plywood which extends up the cabin sides. That approximately 9′ piece of plywood was then attached to the cabin sides with some sort of black glue or possibly a substance derived from an alien life formHow we are doing the repair:
Demolition
First we removed all the dead wood down to the drip rail. We did not remove or seperate the two piece of the drip rail. We had two pieces about 20″ wide where we now had no plywood. We cleaned everything with mineral spirits and let that all evaporate.New Base Layer
We then took a piece of lumber that slid behind the existing plywood on both sides of the gap and screwed it into down into the drip rail. You can see that piece of wood in this pic, let’s call it the “tie-in” http://www.flickr.com/photos/deepplaya/4127599414/
I had to bevel this tie-in a bit with a chisel so when the new plywood was laid up it would all lay flush. Next I put 5200 Fast Cure on the cabin sides around the porthole opening and on the tie-in wood I just mentioned, put in the new piece base layer plywood and screwed the plywood into the tie-in and put clamps on it as well. http://www.flickr.com/photos/deepplaya/4127478054/in/set-72157622793614824/ We actually used more clamps than that, but I don’t have that pic handy.Finish Layer
On top of this we’re going to place another piece of 1/4″ plywood which will be our finished surface and will tie all the pieces togther it will actually be two 4’6″ pieces (on the starboard side anyway). The prepped, sanded and primed finish layer will be put up with either 4200 (aka the 5200 that isn’t as extreme) or liquid nails low VOC paneling glue and I will use small screws along the bottom edge to tie it all into the drip rail. We will use some sort of tensioning rods, or 2×4 with wedges with push on the finishing layer while the glue sets up. Dawn will then maticulously fill and cover any screw holes because that’s how Dawn does everything, she’s good that way. 🙂Then we can install the new NFW portholes.
That’s the plan…
-p—-
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comFrom:
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:35 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Ideas to successfully hang new panelingp { margin: 0; } Pat
There are five portlights on each side to hold the panels in place. There is a grab-rail piece that runs the full length of the bottom and there are pins to hold the molding at the top edge. This all worked to hold the small section I replaced. Offhand, I can’t see why it wouldn’t work for the entire interior. I of course haven’t tried it, so I’m interested to hear how their project turns out. The section I replaced had no adhesive to hold it in place. I had assumed the portlights make this unnecessary.I have a small rotted piece between the two aft portlights on the port side. This area is behind the bulkhead and galley cabinets, difficult to see and almost impossible to replace.
Rich
Original Message
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Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
Pat
My hat’s off to you! You sure are doing a great job on your boat. None of the 424s are the same. I don’t think I have a tie-in piece or anything else under the plywood veneer. I cut out the damaged piece with a multi-tool and straight-edge to make a clean cut. The old piece came out with no trouble, not glued to the coach sides. The multi-tool cut the wood but not the fiberglass just the way its supposed to. I used the old piece as template to make an exact replacement piece. I put the new piece back where the old one was. I had to use shims made out of thin veneer to get the surface even because the new stock was slightly thinner than the original plywood, maybe .04 inches or so. I put thin strips over the seam similar to what Pearson did. Pearson put their seams where the portlights are so there’s only a short seam to cover. I didn’t want to replace a whole sheet of veneer just because a short section had rot so I have a seam on each side of the portlight. The curtains hang there so you don’t see it anyway.When I replaced the portlight, it pulled the repair up tight against the inside of the coach sides. The grab rail evened it out when I screwed everything back together. I sent out photos a few months back. The new piece looks great and only took a few hours to replace. I give it 2-hammers. The only issue is that the color of the repaired section isn’t a perfect match. Heck, the boat’s over 30 years old. If a color match bother folks maybe they need a factory new boat.
Rich
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Thanks for the recommendations, I like the idea of the 4x4s with wedges. And thanks for responding, and for the record, Patrick is certainly doing a lot of the work himself, but there is an admiral working on the demolition and refit too. 😉 As a side note, we are keeping the old portholes for anyone who wants them. They are pretty warped and I don’t believe they are the originals as we have noticed the original screw holes in the fiberglass after we removed the portholes. If you are interested, let us know.
Thanks,
Dawn<.. snip>
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Pat
Are you doing the vee berth as well? I pulled on the grab-drip rail to turn around to get out of bed and it made the panel slip down. I can push it back up but don’t know how to secure it in place. It just moved about an inch in the forward end.
Linus
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I’ve had paneling discolor because water gets behind there. Screw holes that hold the coach roof teak trim leak after a number of years. Fixing the leaks is simple once you find them. I pull the bung and inject a squirt of plysulfide in the hole. Slightly prying the teak strip up a hair to let the caulk squirt under it seems to help. I’ve had to do this repeatedly. If you get it right away its a simple matter to repair, but if you ignore or don’t see the problem in time the wood will rot. I don’t use the v-berth anymore since my daughter is now an adult and has better things to do than go out on her parent’s boat. I didn’t notice the stain on the paneling until it was too late. At least one owner removed the trim and painted on a stripe.
When I replaced the panel section up in my v-berth, I put a coat of varnish on the inside of the sheet. The theory is that if water gets in there it won’t soak into the wood. I don’t know if that will help but it certainly can’t hurt.
Rich
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Not planning to do as extensive a repair in any other places only the salon was really bad.
If you pulled the drip rail and the teak plywood slipped then you probably pulled out some screws I’m guessing.
-p
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s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comFrom: “Linus Martinez” <>
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 9:43 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Ideas to successfully hang new panelingp { margin: 0; } Pat
Are you doing the vee berth as well? I pulled on the grab-drip rail to turn around to get out of bed and it made the panel slip down. I can push it back up but don’t know how to secure it in place. It just moved about an inch in the forward end.
Linus
<.. snip>
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Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick!
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