Maximum Halyard Size in Original Sheaves

[Paul Lefebvre]

Has anyone tried using 1/2″ Sta-Set X in the original wire/rope sheaves. I
may be able to get some 1/2″ for less than 7/16″ It looks like it should
fit, but I thought I would check.

Thanks,

Paul #28

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[unabated]

I believe I have 1/2 inch…. it works, the sta-set-x
sucks….The coiled up sections that don’t get used
much (furled genny) get hard as a rock…..
Just my observation.
a

— Paul Lefebvre <> wrote:

Has anyone tried using 1/2″ Sta-Set X in the
original wire/rope sheaves. I
may be able to get some 1/2″ for less than 7/16″ It
looks like it should
fit, but I thought I would check.

Thanks,

Paul #28

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[john stevenson]

Paul,
When I purchased Sarah one of the first things I did was replace the wire/rope halyards with all rope with the origina sheaves. I went with 9/16″ Sta Set X thinking it would fit the sheaves. It did, but the eye splice was too large to go onto the sheave and I couldn't get a full hoist on the main. I lived with it (used a Cunnigham to tension the luff) until I swapped out the sheaves and went to 1/2″ and 7/16″.
So I can say that 1/2″ would fit easily on the original sheaves, but the eye splice may not. A lot depends how clean and tapered a splice you put on the halyard and how full the hoist is for your main. If main hoists below the black band you shouldn't have any trouble, however since I never tried 1/2″ on the old sheaves I can say for sure.
FWIW, I prefer the 7/16″ Sta Set X to the 1/2″. Sta Set X is very stiff rope. Even after 5 years my 1/2' halyards are fairly stiff. 7/16″ is more flexible and fits the halyard cleats better.

John

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Paul Lefebvre < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Has anyone tried using 1/2″ Sta-Set X in the original wire/rope sheaves. I may be able to get some 1/2″ for less than 7/16″ It looks like it should fit, but I thought I would check.

Thanks,

Paul #28

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Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com

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[Paul Lefebvre]

John / Alan:

Thanks for the info. Concerning the stiff ropes, are there any other
alternatives. I assume that any halyards suitable for this application (low
stretch) would have similar properties, but maybe some are better than
others.

Paul

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[Anonymous]

I re-rigged with 7/16″ Sta-Set X, but if/when I come across a decent wire winch I think I’m going to switch to an all
wire genoa halyard. Since it’s on a roller furling unit, the jenny gets raised once and then tends to stay up pretty
much all the time. So, rather than have that big coil of unused Sta-Set X hanging around at the base of the mast year
after year, I’d have a neat, self-contained winch-full of (non-stretch) wire. Seems more practical to me. Any thoughts
out there as to why this would not be a good idea?

Tor

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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us

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[madsailor]

Hi Tor,

The only caveat I can offer is this: There is a reason (actually many) why wire winches aren't used anymore – things like broken wrists, radius or ulna, pinched fingers and the odd pinched fingers. Wire winches are not all that safe.

Other than that, you're good.

But as you know, it's only my humble opinion.

Bob

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:56 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Quote:

I re-rigged with 7/16″ Sta-Set X, but if/when I come across a decent wire winch I think I'm going to switch to an all
wire genoa halyard. Since it's on a roller furling unit, the jenny gets raised once and then tends to stay up pretty
much all the time. So, rather than have that big coil of unused Sta-Set X hanging around at the base of the mast year
after year, I'd have a neat, self-contained winch-full of (non-stretch) wire. Seems more practical to me. Any thoughts
out there as to why this would not be a good idea?

Tor

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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us

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[Anonymous]

Bob,

Humble opinions are welcomed. Really, those are good, valid points.

I had a steel Finisterre yawl many years ago with wire halyards & winches, which were an inconvenience and, yes, a potential wrist-breaker that I nevertheless managed to survive. I would not use them by choice today on any regular basis, but I think I can handle operating one once every few years. That’s about as often as I tend to take down my roller furling genoa when I’m cruising. Anyway, changing over is not a priority project at the moment. Just something on a might-do eventually list.

Thanks for your input.

Tor

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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us

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[madsailor]

Hi John,

Well, and everyone else, too. Why do you want such large halyards? The hoist on the main is actually shorter than my Ericson 34 which was perfectly happy with 3/8″ line. I'd say, use the smallest possible rather than the largest, but perhaps there's something I don't understand yet about the 424.

That said, I almost never use an eye splice for the halyard – it wastes too much hoist. Believe it or not, there is a special knot whose sole purpose is to attach a shackle to a halyard. It's called the buntline hitch (http://www.the-sailors-place.com/special_knots.htm)

It allows a full hoist, is easy to make, difficult to break, and easy to shorten the halyard when there's a reason due to chafe. It can be done in a seaway (and if you've ever had to do that on a halyard when tossing about, this is important), and it's not a bowline.

You may say, “But Bob, the knot is weaker than the splice!” Why, yes. Yes it is. Let's look at this: The working load for 7/16″ (11mm) Stayset X is 7,400 lbs (Stayset X is recommended by New England Ropes for our size boat). A 50% reduction in strength allowed for the knot and safe working loads works out to 3,700 lbs, or the hoisting of a Subaru Impreza Sportwagon with 4 passengers up your mast.

The truth of the matter is that the science and technology of cordage is so advanced now that you could very easily have no more than 3/8″ line safely.

The only reason I can see for larger line is the hand of the line.

Again, only my two cents.

Bob

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 11:26 AM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Paul,
When I purchased Sarah one of the first things I did was replace the wire/rope halyards with all rope with the origina sheaves. I went with 9/16″ Sta Set X thinking it would fit the sheaves. It did, but the eye splice was too large to go onto the sheave and I couldn't get a full hoist on the main. I lived with it (used a Cunnigham to tension the luff) until I swapped out the sheaves and went to 1/2″ and 7/16″.
So I can say that 1/2″ would fit easily on the original sheaves, but the eye splice may not. A lot depends how clean and tapered a splice you put on the halyard and how full the hoist is for your main. If main hoists below the black band you shouldn't have any trouble, however since I never tried 1/2″ on the old sheaves I can say for sure.
FWIW, I prefer the 7/16″ Sta Set X to the 1/2″. Sta Set X is very stiff rope. Even after 5 years my 1/2' halyards are fairly stiff. 7/16″ is more flexible and fits the halyard cleats better.

John

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Paul Lefebvre < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Has anyone tried using 1/2″ Sta-Set X in the original wire/rope sheaves. I may be able to get some 1/2″ for less than 7/16″ It looks like it should fit, but I thought I would check.

Thanks,

Paul #28

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Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com

—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kidding

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[madsailor]

Hi Tor,

I'm smiling, actually laughing here – I am obviously raising and lowering my headsail way too frequently!

🙂

Bob

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 1:52 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Quote:

Bob,

Humble opinions are welcomed. Really, those are good, valid points.

I had a steel Finisterre yawl many years ago with wire halyards & winches, which were an inconvenience and, yes, a potential wrist-breaker that I nevertheless managed to survive. I would not use them by choice today on any regular basis, but I think I can handle operating one once every few years. That's about as often as I tend to take down my roller furling genoa when I'm cruising. Anyway, changing over is not a priority project at the moment. Just something on a might-do eventually list.

Thanks for your input.

Tor

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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us

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Quote:

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[unabated]

Speaking of line, what length are you planning on
buying. I need to purchase a line for my Solent Stay
Halyard / Pole Topping lift. Probably close to the
same length…. I wanted to order it before I go back
out to the boat next weekend.
alan

— Robert Fine <> wrote:

Hi John,

Well, and everyone else, too. Why do you want such
large halyards? The
hoist on the main is actually shorter than my
Ericson 34 which was perfectly
happy with 3/8″ line. I’d say, use the smallest
possible rather than the
largest, but perhaps there’s something I don’t
understand yet about the 424.

That said, I almost never use an eye splice for the
halyard – it wastes too
much hoist. Believe it or not, there is a special
knot whose sole purpose
is to attach a shackle to a halyard. It’s called the
buntline hitch (
http://www.the-sailors-place.com/special_knots.htm)

It allows a full hoist, is easy to make, difficult
to break, and easy to
shorten the halyard when there’s a reason due to
chafe. It can be done in a
seaway (and if you’ve ever had to do that on a
halyard when tossing about,
this is important), and it’s not a bowline.

You may say, “But Bob, the knot is weaker than the
splice!” Why, yes. Yes
it is. Let’s look at this: The working load for
7/16″ (11mm) Stayset X is
7,400 lbs (Stayset X is recommended by New England
Ropes for our size
boat). A 50% reduction in strength allowed for the
knot and safe working
loads works out to 3,700 lbs, or the hoisting of a
Subaru Impreza Sportwagon
with 4 passengers up your mast.

The truth of the matter is that the science and
technology of cordage is so
advanced now that you could very easily have no more
than 3/8″ line safely.

The only reason I can see for larger line is the
hand of the line.

Again, only my two cents.

Bob

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 11:26 AM, John Stevenson
<>
wrote:

Paul,
When I purchased Sarah one of the first things I

did was replace the

wire/rope halyards with all rope with the origina

sheaves. I went with

9/16″ Sta Set X thinking it would fit the sheaves.

It did, but the eye

splice was too large to go onto the sheave and I

couldn’t get a full hoist

on the main. I lived with it (used a Cunnigham to

tension the luff) until I

swapped out the sheaves and went to 1/2″ and

7/16″.

So I can say that 1/2″ would fit easily on the

original sheaves, but the

eye splice may not. A lot depends how clean and

tapered a splice you put on

the halyard and how full the hoist is for your

main. If main hoists below

the black band you shouldn’t have any trouble,

however since I never tried

1/2″ on the old sheaves I can say for sure.
FWIW, I prefer the 7/16″ Sta Set X to the 1/2″.

Sta Set X is very stiff

rope. Even after 5 years my 1/2′ halyards are

fairly stiff. 7/16″ is more

flexible and fits the halyard cleats better.

John

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Paul Lefebvre

<>

wrote:

Has anyone tried using 1/2″ Sta-Set X in the

original wire/rope sheaves.

I may be able to get some 1/2″ for less than

7/16″ It looks like it should

fit, but I thought I would check.

Thanks,

Paul #28

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—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com

—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kidding

____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

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[Hull152_Patrick]

I was doing a search for halyard relacemnts in the forum and found this thread.I did a rough measure of my jib halyard by raising a tape up the furler (42′ to the deck) and then measuring the tail of the existing wirerope halyard to be 52′ from the splice to the bitter end. that comes out to be 94′ or close enough to 100′ to just call it 100′ for me.

Just wanted to check if that sounded about right to all of you.

Thanks,
-patrick

Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick!

[madsailor]

That's what I used, Patrick. I used 100' Stayset X with the paralay core size: 7/16 inch. I didn't splice the halyard shackle in – I used a halyard knot (like an inside out clove hitch). Works like a charm.

Bob

On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 6:56 PM, Patrick_Seattle < ([email][/email])> wrote:

I was doing a search for halyard relacemnts in the forum and found this thread.I did a rough measure of my jib halyard by raising a tape up the furler (42' to the deck) and then measuring the tail of the existing wirerope halyard to be 52' from the splice to the bitter end. that comes out to be 94' or close enough to 100' to just call it 100' for me.

Just wanted to check if that sounded about right to all of you.

Thanks,
-patrick

Deep Playa, #152 http://www.DeepPlaya.com
Patrick's Sailing Blog: http://shipsrecord.com/blogs/patrick

—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kidding

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[Hull152_Patrick]

Thanks for the reply, it’s good to know I wasn’t way off!

As an FYI for all you lurkers who need the same thing, 7/16 stayset-X is on sale for $.97 a foot at west marine right now.

-p

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s/v Deep Playa – Pearson 424 #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.com

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Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick!

[Author]

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