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Yes, there is a catch – they are not marinized yet. However, TAD is marinizing them, so it can be done. The hardest part about marinizing an engine is getting a wet exhaust manifold / exchanger for it. While Bowmann in the UK doesn’t make one for this engine, the one they make for the Perkins 4-154 (approx $750.) is pretty close and this appears to be what TAD uses. They use an adapter plate to convert the mounting holes to fit. The other hard part is the raw water pump. They use a Jabsco gear driven one off the flywheel.
These engines first went on ebay in the spring for $2,600. However, they made the mistake of saying they had 20+ of them, so I knew I had lots of time. The price recently dropped to $2,165 and they accepted my $2000 offer. The price includes shipping. They also have the 85 HP turbo version available for a bit more.
Mine arrived yesterday and it was in brand new condition. The manufacturing date was May /06. I am sure it is going to be an interesting challenge to complete this project. I thought I would mention it to the group in case anybody else is looking for a project this winter. Multiple people working on this would sure make things easier.
Paul
Boundless #28Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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What do you know about how this will:
1- Fit in our engine beds
2- Mate up with our transmissions
?Thanks!
Pete
Paul Lefebvre wrote:
Yes, there is a catch – they are not marinized yet. However, TAD is
marinizing them, so it can be done. The hardest part about marinizing
an engine is getting a wet exhaust manifold / exchanger for it. While
Bowmann in the UK doesn’t make one for this engine, the one they make
for the Perkins 4-154 (approx $750.) is pretty close and this appears
to be what TAD uses. They use an adapter plate to convert the mounting
holes to fit. The other hard part is the raw water pump. They use a
Jabsco gear driven one off the flywheel.These engines first went on ebay in the spring for $2,600. However,
they made the mistake of saying they had 20+ of them, so I knew I had
lots of time. The price recently dropped to $2,165 and they accepted
my $2000 offer. The price includes shipping. They also have the 85 HP
turbo version available for a bit more.Mine arrived yesterday and it was in brand new condition. The
manufacturing date was May /06. I am sure it is going to be an
interesting challenge to complete this project. I thought I would
mention it to the group in case anybody else is looking for a project
this winter. Multiple people working on this would sure make things
easier.http://cgi.ebay.com/Cummins-B3-3-Diesel-BC30023-65-hp-Brand-New-8NG10019_W0QQitemZ250489097149QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a52504bbd&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_2517wt_907
<http://cgi.ebay.com/Cummins-B3-3-Diesel-BC30023-65-hp-Brand-New-8NG10019_W0QQitemZ250489097149QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a52504bbd&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_2517wt_907>http://cgi.ebay.com/Cummins-B3-3-TURBO-DIESEL-FR30203-85hp-FREE-USA-SHIP_W0QQitemZ250485775815QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a521d9dc7&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_2810wt_907
<http://cgi.ebay.com/Cummins-B3-3-TURBO-DIESEL-FR30203-85hp-FREE-USA-SHIP_W0QQitemZ250485775815QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a521d9dc7&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_2810wt_907>Paul
Boundless #28
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So what’s the story-are these new designs?why for sale so cheap?How do we get specs?I like the 85 hp turbo but will it fit and how does the weight compare.I have a 71 hp westerbeke PE had installed-runs well because he did a lot of PM -6000 hours on the engine.These Cummins look awesome
<.. snip>
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Joe Shimkonis
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I am curious if you consulted with your local Cummins shop regarding the likely background story or even better conversed with the seller.
I’m always very wary of “great deals”. 😉
-p
Sent from my phoneOn Sep 4, 2009, at 1:25 PM, joe shimkonis < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:So what’s the story-are these new designs?why for sale so cheap?How do we get specs?I like the 85 hp turbo but will it fit and how does the weight compare.I have a 71 hp westerbeke PE had installed-runs well because he did a lot of PM -6000 hours on the engine.These Cummins look awesome<.. snip>
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Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
Pete:
This engine, like most of the replacement engines, is smaller and narrower than the W60. When repowering, there are several options.
Like Rich did, you can add a piece of metal to the inside of the existing engine mount pan to match the new dimensions.
Another alternative is to rip out the existing engine mount pan, like Linus did on Sumocean (see 424 gallery) and glass in new stringers. This could be a good option if your existing engine mount pan has canted outward like many, including mine, have done. https://www.pearson424.org/gallery/sumocean-repower
Since this engine does not come with engine mount arms, you could get the arms made wide enough to match the existing pan, if yours is in good shape.
I haven’t decided which way to go. My first thought is to do what Linus did, b ut I am wondering if there is some vibration dampening from the existing pan and if it is worthwhile to try to adapt it to fit???
To mount the velvet drive tranny, you need a SAE #4 adapter and a dampener. These “may” be the 2 items needed at $173. each:
http://shop.torresen.com/ships_store/index.php?p=details&ident=359300&mfc=Velvet+Drive&sku=386-3311316001&prod_name=SAE+%234+Adapter§ionid=10355http://shop.torresen.com/ships_store/index.php?p=details&ident=359299&mfc=Velvet+Drive&sku=386-3312316005¢³_name=Damper§ionid=10355
These engines are cheap because Astec can no longer use them. These engines usually go for about $4200 in this format. Astec can’t use them because either the warranty from Cummins has expired or because they are Tier II engines.
However, the total cost to have these marinized will probably be $3-4,000 more than the purchase price of the engine alone.
The 65 HP engine fits (at least it did on Linus’s and Jim Ashworth’s boats). I don’t know how much additional room the turbo charger takes on the 85 HP. Of cou rse, the height of the engine box could always be raised. However, based on reports from Linus, the 65HP is more than enough power for me.
Pat:
No, I didn’t talk to the seller. However, I had talked to a small tractor supplier that had a 70 HP Mitsubishi engine for sale in the spring (it sold for $1800), that explained the warranty issue to me. I guess the clock starts when the engine hits their loading dock!!
Your are right that I am taking a chance with this engine. However, the one I received was very clean, the oil looks spotless and looking through the oil cap in the valve cover shows brand new conditions with a light coating of oil on everything. Of course, I am tempted to hook up some diesel and cooling water to it and fire it up. I bet it would sound awesome with no muffler on it!!!
Paul
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Paul,
This is a great project. Please keep us posted on what you learn as you
go through this, parts needed, costs, etc. Awesome!Pete
Paul Lefebvre wrote:
Pete:
This engine, like most of the replacement engines, is smaller and
narrower than the W60. When repowering, there are several options.Like Rich did, you can add a piece of metal to the inside of the
existing engine mount pan to match the new dimensions.Another alternative is to rip out the existing engine mount pan, like
Linus did on Sumocean (see 424 gallery) and glass in new stringers.
This could be a good option if your existing engine mount pan has
canted outward like many, including mine, have done.
https://www.pearson424.org/gallery/sumocean-repowerSince this engine does not come with engine mount arms, you could get
the arms made wide enough to match the existing pan, if yours is in
good shape.I haven’t decided which way to go. My first thought is to do what
Linus did, b ut I am wondering if there is some vibration dampening
from the existing pan and if it is worthwhile to try to adapt it to fit???To mount the velvet drive tranny, you need a SAE #4 adapter and a
dampener. These “may” be the 2 items needed at $173. each:http://shop.torresen.com/ships_store/index.php?p=details&ident=359300&mfc=Velvet+Drive&sku=386-3311316001¢³_name=SAE+%234+Adapter§ionid=10355
<http://shop.torresen.com/ships_store/index.php?p=details&ident=359300&mfc=Velvet+Drive&sku=386-3311316001&prod_name=SAE+%234+Adapter§ionid=10355>http://shop.torresen.com/ships_store/index.php?p=details&ident=359299&mfc=Velvet+Drive&sku=386-3312316005¢³_name=Damper§ionid=10355
<http://shop.torresen.com/ships_store/index.php?p=details&ident=359299&mfc=Velvet+Drive&sku=386-3312316005&p%20rod_name=Damper§ionid=10355>Joe:
These engines are cheap because Astec can no longer use them. These
engines usually go for about $4200 in this format. Astec can’t use
them because either the warranty from Cummins has expired or because
they are Tier II engines.However, the total cost to have these marinized will probably be
$3-4,000 more than the purchase price of the engine alone.The 65 HP engine fits (at least it did on Linus’s and Jim Ashworth’s
boats). I don’t know how much additional room the turbo charger takes
on the 85 HP. Of cou rse, the height of the engine box could always be
raised. However, based on reports from Linus, the 65HP is more than
enough power for me.Pat:
No, I didn’t talk to the seller. However, I had talked to a small
tractor supplier that had a 70 HP Mitsubishi engine for sale in the
spring (it sold for $1800), that explained the warranty issue to me. I
guess the clock starts when the engine hits their loading dock!!Your are right that I am taking a chance with this engine. However,
the one I received was very clean, the oil looks spotless and looking
through the oil cap in the valve cover shows brand new conditions with
a light coating of oil on everything. Of course, I am tempted to hook
up some diesel and cooling water to it and fire it up. I bet it would
sound awesome with no muffler on it!!!Paul
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I think that Paul is right on about the vibration transmitted through the new engine bed. However I feel better about the slight increase in vibration when compared to the old pan. It seemed to be an after thought by Pearson. It seems like they had taken a pan from some other boat and cut the bottom out to access the strut bolts. It was sitting on blobs of thickened epoxy. As far as an upgrade to the 85 horsepower I don’t think that it would be needed. My boat moves faster than it ever has and it feels completely different in the way that it responds I haven’t hauled out in over 2 years and I know that the prop and bottom are completely fouled. I actually can steer in reverse now and that is completely different from the old engine. I am at cruising speed now with a fouled bottom and prop at about 1650 rpm. I had never felt the wheel pull when running the throttle up but now I understand what you guys have been talking about. The engine vibration could be helped by softer mounts I think, I talked to some one that used this engine is an old lobster boat and cruised the ICW , he changed the mounts and found that it helped. I am still waiting to see if it will be needed after some more running.
Linus
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