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Carol and I are the new owners of Adagio, formerly Sebastian, hull #149 (1981), now berthed in Deltaville, Va. So far we have enjoyed the boat immensely, and we are learning and really liking the ketch rig. We are looking at replacing the fixed prop with a folding or feathering version, probably the 3-blade Gori, to stop the freewheeling. The boat does not have a shaft brake, though a rotor disc is present.
Does anyone know how to tell what transmission I have? The engine is a W58 but I don’t see a data plate on the transmission, and have not found the information in the engine or owners manuals.
Thanks much,
Warren Stringer -
Hi Carol and Warren-
Welcome to the family! Congrats on your excellent choice in yachts. I’m sure you will enjoy many happy voyages in your P-424.
Our boat is hull #132, also built in 1981. Unless a prior owner made changes, it is likely that your transmission is a Borg Warner 71c, 1:1 drive ratio. This is an excellent and very durable marine transmission. Clairebuoyant has been free wheeling for years without ill effects and I’ve never heard of this transmission being damaged from it.
You could fit a shaft brake, although the original design is out of production, or as you said, a folding or feathering prop will do that too.
As a matter of fact, we bought a Volvo three blade folder, pretty much for the same reason, but never used it. We decided that the reliability of a three blade fixed prop was more important than the drag reduction. You could say our favorite light air sail is the Westerbeke. Opinions on the forum may differ.
We are on Whitehall Creek in Annapolis and will keep an eye out for you. I’m sure you will hear from other P-424 owners close by.
Best regards,
Quent
S/V Clairebuoyant, #132 -
Warren,
I think most (if not all) W58s were delivered with a Velvet Drive tranny.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comOn Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 10:07 PM, Warren Stringer <
wrote:
Carol and I are the new owners of Adagio, formerly Sebastian, hull #149
(1981), now berthed in Deltaville, Va. So far we have enjoyed the boat
immensely, and we are learning and really liking the ketch rig. We are
looking at replacing the fixed prop with a folding or feathering version,
probably the 3-blade Gori, to stop the freewheeling. The boat does not have
a shaft brake, though a rotor disc is present.Does anyone know how to tell what transmission I have? The engine is a W58
but I don’t see a data plate on the transmission, and have not found the
information in the engine or owners manuals.Thanks much,
Warren Stringer_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
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There were three transmission delivered with the W58 – two of which could
free wheel and one which could not. The Velvet Drive and the Hurth could
both free wheel without issue. There was one more whose name I forget
which could not. I’ll try to remember it. Generally, it was supplied with
the shaft brake where the others were not. Oh, it is the Paragon
transmission. That can’t free wheel because it won’t lubricate itself
properly. The Hurth could be put in reverse to stop free wheeling and the
Velvet Drive needed a brake because it is a hydraulic transmission so no
gears to engage.Mine is a Velvet Drive and I use the rotation to drive an alternator.
Bob
On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 4:41 PM, quent wrote:
That would be the same trans.
Q_______________________________________________
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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Hi Dan-
They probably knew each other at the factory, and haven’t met since. Regarding your engine, you might have the W-58 with the early exhaust manifold. Ours came that way, but was so far gone that we replaced it. The early one was approximately square in cross section. The later one was more flat.
Quent -
I use a Shaft-Lok on my Paragon transmission. There was no sign of an
original shaft brake when I got the boat. Obviously, the PO had just let it
freewheel for 30 years. Maybe that’s why the tranny self-destructed soon
after I got it, requiring a complete shop re-build. All seems to be well
now, although the Shaft-Lok has periodically been a PIA, needing numerous
repairs and, after 4 or 5 years, a complete replacement last spring.I believe it’s the Hurth that, when not running, can lock the prop shaft in
reverse gear. That’s what I would choose were I choosing. I have these notes
in my files, probably from someone in this group:Hurth – ribbed and squarish. Can freewheel, locks in reverse – uses ATF
Paragon – hydraulic – cannot freewheel because of insufficient lubrication –
uses ATF, don’t know about oil.
Velvet Drive – hydraulic – happily freewheels, should not be left in gear –
uses ATF or 30 wt. oilTor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Quent,
A boat’s build year is included in the ID number stamped into the upper
starboard corner of the transom. As I recall, boat builders (at least in the
US) are permitted to use the upcoming year even if the boat is completed the
preceding fall, so a boat that was actually completed late in 1980 may be
stamped and documented as an ’81. I’ve forgotten the exact cutoff month.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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I’ll try that list again:
Hurth: ribbed and squarish. Can freewheel, locks in reverse – uses ATF
Paragon: hydraulic – cannot freewheel because of insufficient lubrication –
uses ATF, don’t know about oil.Velvet Drive: hydraulic – happily freewheels, should not be left in gear –
uses ATF or 30 wt. oilQuote:
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Good morning, Tor-
Luckily, the hull number is on the CG document as the transom number didn’t survive Clairebuoyant’s paint job.
Somewhere I remember seeing a list of hull numbers and model years, don’t know where. I’m pretty sure the W-58 started showing up in P-424 in 1981.
It’s 50 degrees and foggy in Annapolis. I trust you are someplace sunny and warm?
Q -
Quent,
Far be it from me to betray your trust. Yes, I am someplace sunny and warm.
Details at http://www.silverheels.us/logblog.htm .Happy winter,
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Thanks everyone!
The previous owner freewheeled for years, so I am going to assume it is the velvet drive and pick the new prop accordingly.
Charisma and Carmella are in the same marina with us, and Sea Duty is across town. Many thanks to Bill Tice and Chuck Ruble for letting us look at their boats as we were shopping. Tor, we met you several times at the Annapolis show during your dealer days. Looking forward to seeing you again some day. -
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Actually, Quent, it’s Newark, New Jersey. Doesn’t get
much crueler or more sadistic than that.But to clinch the ruse, I’ve just uploaded a few photos
(cut out of travel magazines, of course) to accompany
the logblog text.🙂
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Warren,
You may be right in your assumption, but as mentioned
my PO freewheeled Silverheels’ Paragon transmission for
at least 15 years, if not 30. The engine hour meter
read incredibly low for the boat’s age, but in any case
the transmission imploded just weeks after I bought the
boat. Seems to me any boat mechanic could tell at a
glance which tranny you have. Snap a photo and show it
to one.Looking forward to meeting you again in a happier
place.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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